A Divided Church?

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Oct 6, 2020
58
67
18
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New South Wales
#1
A DIVIDED CHURCH?

I have never felt that the church has been divided. Rather, I believe that the divisions which have occurred are within the denominational church structures which have erroneously been viewed as being “the church.” These actually are organisational structures which have, over the centuries, been built by ecclesiastical leaders (rather successfully as it happens) in an effort to establish and consolidate their own power and influence on the earth. In so doing they have been able to pursue their own agenda without reference to the purpose of God in Redemption or in the lives of His children.

Moreover, I believe that it is God who is the author of the divisions which have occurred within these man-made structures having, at various times in history, torn those structures asunder so that the worldly power and authority at the centres of their power will not exceed certain limits.

The analogy given by Scripture is found in the Old Testament account of the tower of Babel.
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4, NIV)
The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Genesis 11:6‑7, NIV)

Mankind, who at the time had a common language, started to build a city with a large tower that would establish their power and influence on the earth, independently of the purpose of God in creation. God then brought division among them by confounding their languages. If he had not done this then men would have done what they liked with the world bypassing the Eternal Purpose of God.

In the same way and for the same reasons God has brought division into the established churches, confounding their languages (doctrine and practices) and thus allowing for suspicion and mistrust to arise between them in a manner analogous to what has happened to the nations of the world.


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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,131
13,456
113
#2
In an article entitled "30,000 Protestant Denominations?", Evangelical
apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication.

Briefly:

  • Svendsen shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford University Press, 1982).
  • Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. However not all of them are Protestants. According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223).
  • However, even this figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines "distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group. The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.
  • Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."
  • Svendsen concludes, "In short, Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly - and, as a result, irresponsibly - glanced at Barrett's work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded." source
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
549
411
63
Uk
www.101christiansocialnetwork.com
#3
I know that some preachers are not god ordained but many genuine believers make up the known church on earth. And with that, A house divided cannot stand!

As far as I can see, it is Satan who tries to divide the body of Christ, but Jesus is building His church and does not want it divided - (according to The following verses and many others. )

1 cor 1 v 10

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


1 Cor 12 v 25

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
25...there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Ephesians 4 also points to Gods will for us being unity, and a coming together of the body not a separation.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Romans 16

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions...
 
Oct 6, 2020
58
67
18
85
New South Wales
#4
I know that some preachers are not god ordained but many genuine believers make up the known church on earth. And with that, A house divided cannot stand!

As far as I can see, it is Satan who tries to divide the body of Christ, but Jesus is building His church and does not want it divided - (according to The following verses and many others. )
Yes, I agree with you. However, the devil often uses the religious leaders of the day to oppose God’s purpose. Jesus spoke rather bluntly to the Jewish leadership when he said:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. (John 8:44, NIV)

He warned us that such attacks would continue during the church age. He tells us not to allow ourselves to be deceived by them.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. (Matthew 7:15, NIV)

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:13‑14, NIV)


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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,306
6,666
113
#5
Moreover, I believe that it is God who is the author of the divisions which have occurred within these man-made structures...
Au contraire, it is Satan and his minions who are behind all divisions. Indeed, Paul called divisions within the Corinthian church as proof of carnality. And the flesh is generally under the influence of Satan.

Getting back to the key issue, there should not be divisions with the Body of Christ (those who have been saved by grace). Yet we see that they are, and there are many factors involved (and it would take up a lot of space to discuss those factors).

While God deliberately divided the unbelieving and idolatrous people at the tower of Babel, that analogy would not apply to the children of God. In fact God commands unity of the spirit in the bond of peace (Eph 4:3).
 
Oct 6, 2020
58
67
18
85
New South Wales
#6
Au contraire, it is Satan and his minions who are behind all divisions. Indeed, Paul called divisions within the Corinthian church as proof of carnality. And the flesh is generally under the influence of Satan.

Getting back to the key issue, there should not be divisions with the Body of Christ (those who have been saved by grace). Yet we see that they are, and there are many factors involved (and it would take up a lot of space to discuss those factors).

While God deliberately divided the unbelieving and idolatrous people at the tower of Babel, that analogy would not apply to the children of God. In fact God commands unity of the spirit in the bond of peace (Eph 4:3).

There are, indeed, many divisions within the “church” institutions because they are man‑made, and consequently under the influence of the flesh, of Satan and contrary to God’s purpose.

There are no divisions within the Body of Christ because it is put together and sustained by the Spirit of God.


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Oct 6, 2020
58
67
18
85
New South Wales
#7
As hard as it may be for us to understand, the failure of the church structures has been allowed for in God’s eternal purpose as he has allowed the “tares” to be sown among the “wheat”. He is working out his purpose in the hearts of his people everywhere both inside and outside what is called the “church.” All his infinite resources in heaven and in earth are being used to bring this to fulfillment.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,… (Ephesians 1:11, NIV)

What God is doing within the hearts of his children to bring them to “the whole measure of the fullness of Christ” is largely seen as a threat to established church hierarchies and is either ignored or opposed by them. However, I am convinced that in his infinite wisdom, God uses the corrupt structures of the church institutions in ways that are beyond our ability to fully comprehend.

This will, however, in no way diminish the judgement that will most surely fall upon those who have so willfully inflicted such devastating spiritual and psychological damage upon so many of God’s dear children.

“ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’
She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,

a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal. (Revelation 18:2, NIV)

Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
for her sins are piled up to heaven,

and God has remembered her crimes.” (Revelation 18:4-5, NIV)

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Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,079
2,397
113
#8
Yes, I agree with you. However, the devil often uses the religious leaders of the day to oppose God’s purpose. Jesus spoke rather bluntly to the Jewish leadership when he said:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. (John 8:44, NIV)

He warned us that such attacks would continue during the church age. He tells us not to allow ourselves to be deceived by them.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. (Matthew 7:15, NIV)

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:13‑14, NIV)


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Practicing homosexuals and rainbow flags inside what calls itself the church?

Denominations accepting this in changed written confession's?

Just one example of Apostasy, as 60 million unborn are killed every year in the world?

Luke 21:26-30KJV
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,079
2,397
113
#9
As hard as it may be for us to understand, the failure of the church structures has been allowed for in God’s eternal purpose as he has allowed the “tares” to be sown among the “wheat”. He is working out his purpose in the hearts of his people everywhere both inside and outside what is called the “church.” All his infinite resources in heaven and in earth are being used to bring this to fulfillment.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,… (Ephesians 1:11, NIV)

What God is doing within the hearts of his children to bring them to “the whole measure of the fullness of Christ” is largely seen as a threat to established church hierarchies and is either ignored or opposed by them. However, I am convinced that in his infinite wisdom, God uses the corrupt structures of the church institutions in ways that are beyond our ability to fully comprehend.

This will, however, in no way diminish the judgement that will most surely fall upon those who have so willfully inflicted such devastating spiritual and psychological damage upon so many of God’s dear children.

“ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’
She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,

a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal. (Revelation 18:2, NIV)

Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
for her sins are piled up to heaven,

and God has remembered her crimes.” (Revelation 18:4-5, NIV)

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Walker deception is everywhere, right before a person's face, and they are unaware.

Try reading Matthew 17:21, Matthew 18:11, Acts 8:37, Roman's 16:24 in the NIV you quote?

Psalm 15:6-8KJV
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,540
2,107
113
#10
Yes, I agree with you. However, the devil often uses the religious leaders of the day to oppose God’s purpose. Jesus spoke rather bluntly to the Jewish leadership when he said:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. (John 8:44, NIV)

He warned us that such attacks would continue during the church age. He tells us not to allow ourselves to be deceived by them.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. (Matthew 7:15, NIV)

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:13‑14, NIV)


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Yet nothing in this post supports your OP, that God is the author of division among churches. A theory well disproven with relevant scriptures, by tararose. That you bypassed attempting to support your own theory when scripture disproved it should say something to you. But in the next post you continue pushing this disproven concept.
Have you ever considered some people tracking wrongly are ignorant, not malicious? *cough
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,897
1,515
113
#11
A DIVIDED CHURCH?

I have never felt that the church has been divided. Rather, I believe that the divisions which have occurred are within the denominational church structures which have erroneously been viewed as being “the church.” These actually are organisational structures which have, over the centuries, been built by ecclesiastical leaders (rather successfully as it happens) in an effort to establish and consolidate their own power and influence on the earth. In so doing they have been able to pursue their own agenda without reference to the purpose of God in Redemption or in the lives of His children.

Moreover, I believe that it is God who is the author of the divisions which have occurred within these man-made structures having, at various times in history, torn those structures asunder so that the worldly power and authority at the centres of their power will not exceed certain limits.

The analogy given by Scripture is found in the Old Testament account of the tower of Babel.
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4, NIV)
The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Genesis 11:6‑7, NIV)

Mankind, who at the time had a common language, started to build a city with a large tower that would establish their power and influence on the earth, independently of the purpose of God in creation. God then brought division among them by confounding their languages. If he had not done this then men would have done what they liked with the world bypassing the Eternal Purpose of God.

In the same way and for the same reasons God has brought division into the established churches, confounding their languages (doctrine and practices) and thus allowing for suspicion and mistrust to arise between them in a manner analogous to what has happened to the nations of the world.


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A DIVIDED CHURCH?

I have never felt that the church has been divided. Rather, I believe that the divisions which have occurred are within the denominational church structures which have erroneously been viewed as being “the church.” These actually are organisational structures which have, over the centuries, been built by ecclesiastical leaders (rather successfully as it happens) in an effort to establish and consolidate their own power and influence on the earth. In so doing they have been able to pursue their own agenda without reference to the purpose of God in Redemption or in the lives of His children.

Moreover, I believe that it is God who is the author of the divisions which have occurred within these man-made structures having, at various times in history, torn those structures asunder so that the worldly power and authority at the centres of their power will not exceed certain limits.

The analogy given by Scripture is found in the Old Testament account of the tower of Babel.
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4, NIV)
The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Genesis 11:6‑7, NIV)

Mankind, who at the time had a common language, started to build a city with a large tower that would establish their power and influence on the earth, independently of the purpose of God in creation. God then brought division among them by confounding their languages. If he had not done this then men would have done what they liked with the world bypassing the Eternal Purpose of God.

In the same way and for the same reasons God has brought division into the established churches, confounding their languages (doctrine and practices) and thus allowing for suspicion and mistrust to arise between them in a manner analogous to what has happened to the nations of the world
You give us lots to consider.

Shouldn't we also see that if we united, we would have great power? Bill Graham tried to unite us under Christ and His forgiving us so we live in eternity with the Lord. Most of those who went forward slipped back into their old ways, putting the demands of society above the demands of the Lord.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,079
2,397
113
#12
Most of those who went forward slipped back into their old ways, putting the demands of society above the demands of the Lord.
Like demands that homosexuality is accepted by God, and Abortion isnt sin, just to mention a few?

The gate and road to the Kingdom is narrow, few will find it.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,493
1,086
113
#13
God has not caused division among the church for it is written.....A house divided will not stand.
Jesus also said that ....the house that he builds will prevail against the gates of hell its self.
What has happened is the church has fallen asleep on it's post as a watchmen. She needs a great awakening.
That awakening is starting now even as we speak.
The different denominations of the church has brought to life many scriptural truths . We being the body of Christ may not look alike or act alike for such are the body parts. A hand does not resemble a foot nor a toe to the arm.
God will call her out of her slumber and she will answer. So let's stand waiting. Prepared to be doers of the word and not hearers only.
The o.p. considered the tower of babel as a for instance...let us then look at the book of acts when the saints first gathered and heard the truth in there own language.
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,626
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113
#14
The problem is the church has gotten away from its roots, if we really look at it, no church resembles the churches of acts, we have taken church and made it into an entertainment center where the focus is on getting together for a scripted play a few hours a week, and away from the constant meeting in homes where they studied the apostles teaching, broke bread (ate together) had fellowship and served in prayer.

instead corporate prayer is relegated to wed night prayer meeting, fellowship is regulated to a once in awhile pot luck dinner on Sunday afternoon, breaking of bread is now a religious ceremony. At its extreme paganized into a ritual, and studying the doctrines of the apostles has turned into mini sermonettes, and charismatic teachings that when you get right down to it, has very little bible and a lot of opinion, (I think of the heel I fire and brimstone messages I used to sit under, or the catholic message where they read a passage or whatever and the. The priest gave some message which really had no bible,

yes, Satan has gotten in and divided the church, and that’s bad, what is far worse is he has convinced the church into believing some ritual meeting is Gods way, and taken the power of fellowship out of the equation, because he knows how powerful that can be
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
549
411
63
Uk
www.101christiansocialnetwork.com
#15
Apology in advance... it’s long but I didn’t know how to say it in another way - sorry for my inadequate writing skills.

There are indeed tares amount the wheat... but even they shouldn’t be separated until the time ordained Incase wheat is pulled up by mistake along with the tares. If the angels are at risk of this how much more are we in our attempts to make a call on who is really saved and who isn’t.

By their fruit we will know where they are today, but we are all on a journey and it can be. Many who get things wrong even in the pulpit, can be children of God, but be mistaught, or immature and speak from inexperience and ignorance rather than a desire to disobey God and deceive others. It is a lifelong process of the work of the Holy Spirit in us and we all begin at very different places... we cannot really judge before the time though we can always lovingly bring truth where it is lacking and leave God to convict.

The bible is full of examples of individuals within Gods’ people failing Him. From Genesis to Revelation we see it - time and time again. We see David in a horrible place for at least over 9 months... lies, adultary and murder... and yet a man after Gods own heart and who eventually got back on track. We see sin ripe in the churches we see Paul and Barnabus having such a strong disagreement on Gods will in a situation that they went their separate ways... and in a huff too by the sounds of it.

There is no end to the teaching Paul gave because so much division existed in the church during his ministry. We see legalists, traditionalists, loose cannons and liberals all battling with one another and all believing they know how to live out the Christian life and trying to force others to comply.

We see the rebukes given time and time again in scripture even at this early stage, the beginnings of the church. Divisions, strong differing convictions ...(Yet there was rarely a teaching or a command in the New Testament to conform either way, but to bear with and love one another despite the many differing views). God didn’t say they weren’t part of the genuine church of God - despite the fact apostles and God himself rebuked them for many things including accepting the behaviour of the man who was sleeping with his fathers wife, (even the ungodly of the time knew such behaviour was wicked.) We see the warnings to the GENUINE churches in Revelation, genuine despite all they were being rebuked for.

Yes the warnings were there too, but only God can say when they are too far gone or have no more time to repent or wake up and accept truths about whatever they are doing wrong.

Lots’ righteous soul was vexed in sodom, he still remained there for some time, so too many genuine believers remain within less than perfect churches and are grieved by many things but believe they cannot leave because scripture commands they must assemble somewhere with believers regularly.

Many new denominations begin because a person saw things in scripture that the existing church did not accept and their newly-informed conscience about the matter was very strong so they had to move on and try to be faithful to the conviction they had. They may not have wanted to split, and the church they split from May not have wanted to split but were of strong convictions they had to follow also.

Of course there have been times when the established church has resisted truth in unrighteousness, such as when martin Luther and others made a stand for vital truths about salvation and were persecuted and many killed! That’s a very different thing though to simply agreeing to disagree and moving on.

God does not want division but it doesn’t mean that division exists because people fail or cannot make it work together we are flawed creatures with limited knowledge and understanding. Like Paul and Barnabus we sometimes just have to go our separate ways because of where we are at on the journey as individuals. We can be very wrong and we can believe some very wrong things along the way but still be saved.

The church of God is flawed. It is kept alive by Gods grace and Gods faithfulness, and though it is right to lovingly point out dangerous error (acceptance of sin) where it is flourishing, we really mustn’t judge the intent of salvation also standing of people or denominations, believers or motives etc before the time when God will judge all things.

False teachers are a dangerous right enough, but we cannot lump all normal failings of believers in with the works of them.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
421
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#16
A DIVIDED CHURCH?

I have never felt that the church has been divided. Rather, I believe that the divisions which have occurred are within the denominational church structures which have erroneously been viewed as being “the church.” These actually are organisational structures which have, over the centuries, been built by ecclesiastical leaders (rather successfully as it happens) in an effort to establish and consolidate their own power and influence on the earth. In so doing they have been able to pursue their own agenda without reference to the purpose of God in Redemption or in the lives of His children.

Moreover, I believe that it is God who is the author of the divisions which have occurred within these man-made structures having, at various times in history, torn those structures asunder so that the worldly power and authority at the centres of their power will not exceed certain limits.

The analogy given by Scripture is found in the Old Testament account of the tower of Babel.
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4, NIV)
The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Genesis 11:6‑7, NIV)

Mankind, who at the time had a common language, started to build a city with a large tower that would establish their power and influence on the earth, independently of the purpose of God in creation. God then brought division among them by confounding their languages. If he had not done this then men would have done what they liked with the world bypassing the Eternal Purpose of God.

In the same way and for the same reasons God has brought division into the established churches, confounding their languages (doctrine and practices) and thus allowing for suspicion and mistrust to arise between them in a manner analogous to what has happened to the nations of the world.


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I think that you address a major topic. Tararose answered well (#3). If we put both of you together we get two main reasons for divisions in Christ's Body, universally and locally. THey are:
  1. Ambition - which you addressed
  2. Doctrine - which Tararose pointed out in 1st Corinthians 1, 3 and 12
Is not the solution found in Ephesians 4? In the first 4 verses we are commanded to keep the unity in meekness and lowliness. This unity is called "the Unity of the Spirit" and the grammar indicates that it has already been established. It is up to us to keep it. But ambition and pride, the opposites of what is required, permeate God's Assembly. The middle verses introduce the risen Lord giving gifts so that we all "come to the Unity of THE Faith." The article "THE" modifies the word "faith". The "faith" here is not our personal faith in God and His Christ. It is the fixed belief in a scheme of things - commonly known as common doctrine. And just before that is the small word "'till". "Until" implies that a time must pass between outset and end. So we Christians have doubly failed. We did not keep the Unity of the Spirit, and we did not give the time it takes to reconcile two or more Christian's DOCTRINE.

The consequences are devastating. In His heartfelt prayer before He suffered, in John 17:21, our Lord makes a profound statement. It reads;

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

How many of us will be accused of causing a failure in the gospel. Instead of propogating it, we, the ambitious, we the proud and the stubborn, we who gave no time for the saints to come to common doctrine before we left our Assembly, we were the cause of tearing the Body of Christ apart - limb for limb (1st Cor.1:13) and giving the heathen grounds to discard the gospel. If I wasn't so worried about myself, I would be looking forward to the Judgment Seat of Christ to see the faces of those brothers and sisters in the Lord when their seeming inspired ministry turns into the Lord's words, "you workers of iniquity!"

We have a parallel in the Old Testament. God gave Jeroboam kingship over the bulk of Israel. But he was not commissioned to stop Israel (the ten northern Tribes) from fulfillling their worship in Jerusalem according to the Law of Moses. He, fearing that Israel would be united to Judah again through common worship, made OTHER places of worship. Maybe some kind brother or sister can do a count of how many times the inspired word repeats "the sin(s) of Jeroboam". Would I be far wrong if I said 24 times?

There is one last point that maybe you alluded to. God is One. It is one of His attributes. DIVISION is a sign of God's JUDGMENT, as Babylon shows. Is Christianity today under God's blessing or JUDGMENT?
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
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#17
God has not caused division among the church for it is written.....A house divided will not stand.
Jesus also said that ....the house that he builds will prevail against the gates of hell its self.
What has happened is the church has fallen asleep on it's post as a watchmen. She needs a great awakening.
That awakening is starting now even as we speak.
The different denominations of the church has brought to life many scriptural truths . We being the body of Christ may not look alike or act alike for such are the body parts. A hand does not resemble a foot nor a toe to the arm.
God will call her out of her slumber and she will answer. So let's stand waiting. Prepared to be doers of the word and not hearers only.
The o.p. considered the tower of babel as a for instance...let us then look at the book of acts when the saints first gathered and heard the truth in there own language.
Great response. I wish I had noticed this post before writing my unnecessarily long essay lol you said it so well and without miles of text!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#18
Like demands that homosexuality is accepted by God, and Abortion isnt sin, just to mention a few?

The gate and road to the Kingdom is narrow, few will find it.
How could we unite with something that isn't of God?

I have been studying the church as it was before Constantine. They were united under Christ and held fast to all the apostles taught, but very flexible about members beliefs other than Christ. But even then men entered the church with their own ideas instead of God's ways.

Constantine really changed the church with his idea that any questions could be answered with a church council instead of the apostles. He said the Holy Spirit led them so they could make any changes, just say it was from the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps it is impossible for us to unite.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#19
Great response. I wish I had noticed this post before writing my unnecessarily long essay lol you said it so well and without miles of text!
And as the remnant stays close to Christ, the real church of Christ has stood.

Reading a history of the development of the west in the US, it was wild and dangerous until the church came to the west. God has tremendous power.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#20
A DIVIDED CHURCH?

I have never felt that the church has been divided. Rather, I believe that the divisions which have occurred are within the denominational church structures which have erroneously been viewed as being “the church.” These actually are organisational structures which have, over the centuries, been built by ecclesiastical leaders (rather successfully as it happens) in an effort to establish and consolidate their own power and influence on the earth. In so doing they have been able to pursue their own agenda without reference to the purpose of God in Redemption or in the lives of His children.

Moreover, I believe that it is God who is the author of the divisions which have occurred within these man-made structures having, at various times in history, torn those structures asunder so that the worldly power and authority at the centres of their power will not exceed certain limits.

The analogy given by Scripture is found in the Old Testament account of the tower of Babel.
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4, NIV)
The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Genesis 11:6‑7, NIV)

Mankind, who at the time had a common language, started to build a city with a large tower that would establish their power and influence on the earth, independently of the purpose of God in creation. God then brought division among them by confounding their languages. If he had not done this then men would have done what they liked with the world bypassing the Eternal Purpose of God.

In the same way and for the same reasons God has brought division into the established churches, confounding their languages (doctrine and practices) and thus allowing for suspicion and mistrust to arise between them in a manner analogous to what has happened to the nations of the world.


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I believe that the scriptures teach that there has always been a division in the church which is made up of God's elect. Ezekiel 1:16, and their appearance and their work was as if it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

Both wheels are regenerated believers in God, and worship him in Spirit. The larger outer wheel are those who worship God, but have not been revealed, by the Holy Ghost, the doctrine that Jesus taught. and are referred to as regenerated babes in Christ These make up the many denominations that came into existence in the reformation period of the 1500's. The original church (the inner, smaller wheel) that Jesus set up was never a part of the Roman catholic church which tried to eliminate the church that Jesus set up, in which, Paul, who was then Saul, played a role in persecuting the church.

Ezek 1:16, I believe, harmonizes with Matt 7, the larger wheel being the wide gate, which is the invisible church, and the smaller wheel, being the straight gate, which is the visible church.

The visible church has always been recognised as, the few, the remnant, the 144,000, whos congregations have always been much smaller as compared to the denominations.

The invisible church tend to believe that there will be but a few in heaven, due to their misunderstanding of the division of the visible, and invisible church.

The invisible church are still babes in Christ sustaining themselves on the milk of the word, without having the knowledge of the doctrine of Jesus Christ contained in the gospel.

Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.