A Question about Free Will, Hell and how it is all set up.

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Apr 14, 2018
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#1
Hi there, I'm new here and I have a glaring question that I just haven't been able to find a satisfiable answer to. Here goes:

God set everything up so that we have free will and through this free will we are able to either choose or deny Christ. We have this choice in order for us to be able to truly love God. Because without this choice we would be like robots, and our "love" would be meaningless.

With this free will comes the possibility of denying God and being sent to Hell. But God does not want any of us to go to Hell because He loves us so much. And yet, the way that He has set everything up makes Hell a very real possibility for people.

God is omnipotent, that means that He can do whatever it is He wants. So, why hasn't God, in all his love, set up everything so that we have free will and yet everyone chooses to accept him, never sin, and go to Heaven? You may say, "If God makes everyone accept him and go to Heaven that would mean we wouldn't have free will." But to say that God cannot make us accept and love him and still have free will would be to deny his omnipotence. God can make it so, it is within his power.

God can make it so that we all have free will and that we never sin and all end up going to Heaven. So why should it be that he chooses to allow people to deny him and go to Hell?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#2
Good question.
You need to understand that God is the beginning and the end- meaning that He is timeless and to Him the end and the beginning are same. And you also need to understand that God is eternal attributes that are truth, found in His spirit, expressed as His word.

If one of God's attributes is that He is a perfect/righteous judge from the beginning, then He must judge righteously for Him to be truth, if He doesn't then it become a lie from the beginning- God forbid.
God's attributes (Will) decides what happens and we can't question that.

Welcome to CC
 

levi85

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2013
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#3
God has given us free will, Lord Jesus, Bible, Holy Spirit but still then with our free will we will deny Christ, i think there will be Judgement and one may be punished in hell
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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#4
God reacts accordinly to the way mankind acts. They mess up on their own, he fixes the problem
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#5
This is a test, if He made us with free will to never sin and be righteous robots He most likely would have made the "angels" (malakim) these righteous robots and never created humans. But He did, and it is a test;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 11:4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is in His holy temple; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Trial and being enticed/tempted are 2 different things, this experience is a trial, temptation is the desire to do evil, Yah guides none to evil, it is one's own desire that makes evil a desirable thing. James explains it better than I can;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. hen, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”

Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:24-27, “By belief, Mosheh, having become great, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing rather to be afflicted with the people of Yah than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time, deeming the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures in Mitsrayim, for he was looking to the reward. By belief, he left Mitsrayim, not fearing the wrath of the sovereign, for he was steadfast, as seeing Him who is invisible.”

1 Corinthians 10:13, "No trial has overtaken you except such as is common to man, and YHWH is trustworthy, who shall not allow you to be tried beyond what you are able, but with the trial shall also make the way of escape, enabling you to bear it."
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:16-17, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mighty commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden, but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 4:7, “If you do right, will it not be accepted? If you don’t do right, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

Deuteronomy 30:19-20, “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, to love
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, to give them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Psalm 9:7-8, “But
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”

Malachi 3:16-18, “Then those who reverenced
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]spoke often one to another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]paid attention and heard them; and a Book of Remembrance was written in His presence of those who gave reverence to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and who thought upon His Name; And they will be Mine! says [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts. In that day when I make up My jewels I will spare them, as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you will return, and again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him who serves[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and him who does not serve Him.”

This is a test to see who is fit for the Kingdom of Yah. For the Gospel is about how to enter the Kingdom of Yah.

Matthew 10:7, “And as you go, proclaim, saying, ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.”

Mat 4:17, "From that time
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]began to proclaim and to say, “Repent, for the Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.”

Matthew 24:14, "“And this Good News of the Kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

Mark 1:15, “and (John) saying, “The time has been filled, and the Kingdom of Yah has come near. Repent, and believe in the Good News.”
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 4:43, “And He said to them, “To the other cities I also have to bring the Good News: the Kingdom of Yah, because for this I have been sent.”

Luke 8:1, "And it came to be, afterward, that He went through every city and village, proclaiming and bringing the Good News of the Kingdom of Yah, and the twelve were with Him,"

Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The Kingdom of this world has become the Kingdom of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall Kingdom forever and ever!”
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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#6
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yah knows the end from the beginning;

Ecclesiastes 3:11, “He has made it all, beautiful in its time. Even the ages He has put in their hearts, except that no one finds out the work that Yah does from beginning to end.”

Isaiah 46:10, “declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do,”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The right way may not always seem to be what we want, prefer or even understand, but it is what is best for us... To walk in His will.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 32:8-11, “Let Me instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; Let Me counsel, My eye be on you. Do not be like the horse, like the mule, With no understanding, with bit and bridle, Else they do not come near you. Many are the sorrows of the wrong; But as for the one trusting in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Loving-commitment surrounds him. Be glad in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and exult, you righteous; And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 16:9, "A man’s heart plans his way, But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]establishes his steps."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 3:5-7, “Trust in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; Know Him in all your ways, And He makes all your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and turn away from evil.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 25:8-10,12, “Righteous and straight is [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; Therefore He teaches sinners in the way. He guides the meek ones in right-ruling, And He teaches the meek ones His way. All the paths of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]are loving-commitment and truth, To those who guard His covenant and His witnesses. 12, Who, then, is the man that fears [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? He teaches him in the way he should choose.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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Apr 14, 2018
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#7
If one of God's attributes is that He is a perfect/righteous judge from the beginning, then He must judge righteously for Him to be truth, if He doesn't then it become a lie from the beginning
Sure, I get that he is a perfect/righteous judge. But, why did he make it so that we sin and need to be judged by our sins in the first place? He can give us free will and have us never sin, and have us all love him.
 
Last edited:
Apr 14, 2018
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#8
This is a test, if He made us with free will to never sin and be righteous robots He most likely would have made the "angels" (malakim) these righteous robots and never created humans. But He did, and it is a test;

This is a test to see who is fit for the Kingdom of Yah. For the Gospel is about how to enter the Kingdom of Yah.
But he could make us all fit for Heaven. Even with sin, even with temptation. He can make a test and He can make us all pass it. He does not have to abide by His own rules.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
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#10
God can make it so that we all have free will and that we never sin and all end up going to Heaven. So why should it be that he chooses to allow people to deny him and go to Hell?
Why do you think you know better than God?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
1,137
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#11
Sure, I get that he is a perfect/righteous judge. But, why did he make it so that we sin and need to be judged by our sins in the first place? He can give us free will and have us never sin, and have us all love him.
He is a creator from the beginning so at the right time He created
He is a savior from the beginning so man MUST fall so that God saves him
He is a judge from the beginning so man MUST fall and be judged

Above all these, God is TRUTH- so they MUST be done for Him to be God, if not He becomes a lie from the beginning (we can not think in this direction). The spirit of lie is satan himself.
The tag of war is between God's perfect justice and God's perfect love- therefore these and all of God's attributes are one in the man Jesus Christ. The perfect justice was done when the one who knew no sin died for the world and the perfect love was also accomplished for there is no greater love than dying for others. Now, we are left with a choice to accept the marriage proposal so that we are one with love (for those who are faithful bride) or one with justice (for those who are unfaithful bride/unbelievers)
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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#13
Well, I for one don't believe it was a test in the garden. Satan wanted to get revenge against God for his punishment, therefore going after Adam an Eve. As long as they were under the protection of God and walking in the spirit. , satan could not touch them. He had to find a way to break that connection from God so that he could have control of them. And first, he had to convince Eve to eat from the tree, and so she did. Now satan could have control over them because they were no longer walking in the spirit of God, but walking in the flesh. BY them walking in the flesh, satan could cause them to sin against God by his influence of their minds. The further they got from God ,the more they sinned. That is what satan wanted, and wants today. To keep man as far away from God as possible with as many distractions as possible. That is what makes mankind captive by Satan. Jesus was sent to destroy the works of satan by pouring out his Holy Spirit on all flesh so that as many as believed, shall be saved.
 
Apr 14, 2018
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#16
He is a creator from the beginning so at the right time He created
He is a savior from the beginning so man MUST fall so that God saves him
He is a judge from the beginning so man MUST fall and be judged

Above all these, God is TRUTH- so they MUST be done for Him to be God
But if God is omnipotent then they do not have to be done? Because he is God.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
1,137
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#17
But if God is omnipotent then they do not have to be done? Because he is God.
If it is not done then God ceases to be God because He won't be TRUTH from the beginning.
God is who He is, everything else has to be as per who He is.
 
Apr 14, 2018
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#18
I still do not understand what you are trying to say, sorry.
You think God's plan is inferior to something somebody else can come up with, including yourself, it seems.
Regardless of whether or not this is true. I don't believe it is helping me with my question.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
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#19
I still do not understand what you are trying to say, sorry.
Regardless of whether or not this is true. I don't believe it is helping me with my question.
You obviously think there is a better way that God could have done things. If you are in a state of fearing hell, look at it as a good thing, for fear of God is the beginning of wisdom :)
 
Apr 14, 2018
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#20
If it is not done then God ceases to be God because He won't be TRUTH from the beginning.
God is who He is, everything else has to be as per who He is.
But to say that God must do anything is to deny his omnipotence? He can be a savior without the fall of man. And he can be a judge without the fall of man.