A question about the law

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Harley_Angel

Guest
#1
Okay, this is a very newb question, but it's something I've been wondering.

When we talk about "the law" what exactly are we talking about? I've heard levitcal law, moses's law, little l law, bit L Law, etc.

Now, I was reading galatians 2:11-21 where Paul is mad because the Jewish Christians were telling the Gentile Christians that they HAD to follow the law. Paul told them that no man is justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Chris. I believe the specific reason Paul is so angry at them is because they were forcing circumcision on the non-jewish Christians. But, I'm just curious, what IS the full law?

And to my brothers and sisters who choose to follow the law, why do you chose to continue to observe it? It says in Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside he grae of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

I understand than many of you have said you follow the law not for salvation but because you think it's what God wants us to do, but from this passage and from many others, it appears we have been set free from the law. Why choose bondage instead of slavery?

I'm honestly interested in knowing, and I'm not trying to attack you, just gain a deeper understanding of why you would choose to follow the law. Some scripture defending your stances would be great!

Thanks guys, and for those of you who do not follow the law, let us be kind in how we reply and not become rude, arrogant, petty, or mean.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#2
Back in the eighties the Lord showed me some “rules” to follow. Life suddenly became very beautiful after I began following those rules. I compare it to this:

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:33 RSV

But then it suddenly occurs to me that we have to obey the teachings of Jesus, found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, don’t we? We can hardly ignore the teachings of the Lord.
 
M

Mal316

Guest
#3
As I am not Christian, my viewpoint is most likely very different from most folks here.

I believe "the law" to be the 613 mitzvot found in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible. I do not think the laws regarding korbanot (offerings) need to be followed today as there is no Temple where the offerings may be brought. The laws of offerings are not done away with. They are suspended. The laws of offerings should still be studied as they are part of God's Holy Word and His Word is to be valued more than gold and silver. It is good doctrine, do not forsake it. It is a tree of life to all who hold fast to it and all its supporters are happy. Its ways are ways of pleasantness and all its paths are peace. Long life is in its right hand, riches and honor in its left.

I choose to follow the law because I believe it's what God wants of me. It's a guide to loving God and loving my neighbor. It's a way to know God. God has promised abundant blessing for following the law and also terrible curses for not doing so. I believe He meant it when He said to keep His commandments. I believe brit olam (eternal covenant) is exactly that. Eternal. For all time.

Following the law isn't a condition for salvation. It's not a way to earn grace. It's because of God's love for us, because He loved us first and cared enough to give us the law that we follow it. He did not give us the law in order for us to disregard it.
 
O

oopsies

Guest
#4
Okay, this is a very newb question, but it's something I've been wondering.

When we talk about "the law" what exactly are we talking about? I've heard levitcal law, moses's law, little l law, bit L Law, etc.

Now, I was reading galatians 2:11-21 where Paul is mad because the Jewish Christians were telling the Gentile Christians that they HAD to follow the law. Paul told them that no man is justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Chris. I believe the specific reason Paul is so angry at them is because they were forcing circumcision on the non-jewish Christians. But, I'm just curious, what IS the full law?

And to my brothers and sisters who choose to follow the law, why do you chose to continue to observe it? It says in Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside he grae of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

I understand than many of you have said you follow the law not for salvation but because you think it's what God wants us to do, but from this passage and from many others, it appears we have been set free from the law. Why choose bondage instead of slavery?

I'm honestly interested in knowing, and I'm not trying to attack you, just gain a deeper understanding of why you would choose to follow the law. Some scripture defending your stances would be great!

Thanks guys, and for those of you who do not follow the law, let us be kind in how we reply and not become rude, arrogant, petty, or mean.
I think it could mean the Mosaic laws but perhaps it could also mean the additions that the pharisees and rabbis added to the Mosaic laws (I don't remember what it's called).
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#5
There is one law - the Torah, the law of G-d.

Now, as to why people like me choose to follow it, there's multiple answers:

1) G-d commanded it
2) Yeshua commanded it
3) There's nothing wrong with following them
4) It's easy
5) G-d has given us reasons in Scripture.

As to the last one, I could post all the reasons in Scripture for why it is good to follow the Torah, if you'd like.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#8
Remember the NT is being written by a Jew

when he uses a greek word we translate law

in his Jewish mindset he is thinking Torah

Torah = Five books of Moses = 613 commandments
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#9
Nuhen, would mind giving me the scriptures please? Everything I've read so far is that Christ died and fulfilled the law and that we are now free from it, but it would be nice to see the scripture you have, too.

Thank you all for your posts and for helping me with the confusion of what the Law is. I'm still trucking along in the new testement and haven't gotten back around to the old yet.
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#10
Nuhen, would mind giving me the scriptures please? Everything I've read so far is that Christ died and fulfilled the law and that we are now free from it, but it would be nice to see the scripture you have, too.

Thank you all for your posts and for helping me with the confusion of what the Law is. I'm still trucking along in the new testement and haven't gotten back around to the old yet.
Well, Yeshua said in Matthew 5:17-20 that he desires we follow it. There's also the verse I can't remember the reference to, "if you love me, keep my commandments". Then in the Tanakh, there's the following blog by a good friend of mine that lists the verses: http://leo-tagc.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-did-gog-give-us-torah.html
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#11
Well, Yeshua said in Matthew 5:17-20 that he desires we follow it. There's also the verse I can't remember the reference to, "if you love me, keep my commandments". Then in the Tanakh, there's the following blog by a good friend of mine that lists the verses: http://leo-tagc.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-did-gog-give-us-torah.html
In the OT, when you sinned, knowingly or unknowingly, you brought a sacrifice. But you had to continue sacrificing over and over. When Jesus, the Lamb of God, was sacrificed, it was sufficient so no sacrifice would ever have to happen again. We are no different in our inability to follow the Law than the Israelites were. But having made the sacrifice, the Law is fulfilled. I no longer need to bring a sacrifice, my sin is covered by His work on the cross. Having fulfilled the requirement of the Law, we enter into a new covenant, which includes the transforming work of the Holy Spirit, bringing forth the fruit of the Spirit, which is a new righteousness that does not come from following a set of rules, but from the heart. If I attempt to return to the following of the law set in stone, I fail and if I attempt to bring sacrifice to satisfy my failure, I am exercising futility at the least and rebellion at the worse.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#12
There is also Spiritual Law....and it is eternal.

Maggie
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#13
In the OT, when you sinned, knowingly or unknowingly, you brought a sacrifice. But you had to continue sacrificing over and over. When Jesus, the Lamb of God, was sacrificed, it was sufficient so no sacrifice would ever have to happen again. We are no different in our inability to follow the Law than the Israelites were. But having made the sacrifice, the Law is fulfilled. I no longer need to bring a sacrifice, my sin is covered by His work on the cross. Having fulfilled the requirement of the Law, we enter into a new covenant, which includes the transforming work of the Holy Spirit, bringing forth the fruit of the Spirit, which is a new righteousness that does not come from following a set of rules, but from the heart. If I attempt to return to the following of the law set in stone, I fail and if I attempt to bring sacrifice to satisfy my failure, I am exercising futility at the least and rebellion at the worse.
Right, Yeshua became the sacrifice for atonement of sins, and his sacrifice was permanent so we no longer have to sacrifice.

So if this new covenant is all you say it is, why do you even still have the Tanakh? Why not just get rid of it completely, if you have the new covenant?

Honest question. I'm genuinely curious why so many Christians do not follow the Tanakh and yet keep it in their canon.
 
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lil-rush

Guest
#14
Right, Yeshua became the sacrifice for atonement of sins, and his sacrifice was permanent so we no longer have to sacrifice.

So if this new covenant is all you say it is, why do you even still have the Tanakh? Why not just get rid of it completely, if you have the new covenant?

Honest question. I'm genuinely curious why so many Christians do not follow the Tanakh and yet keep it in their canon.
you can learn from it. Just because Christians don't follow the laws doesn't mean they disregard all the lessons that can be gleaned from the OT.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#15
Right, Yeshua became the sacrifice for atonement of sins, and his sacrifice was permanent so we no longer have to sacrifice.

So if this new covenant is all you say it is, why do you even still have the Tanakh? Why not just get rid of it completely, if you have the new covenant?

Honest question. I'm genuinely curious why so many Christians do not follow the Tanakh and yet keep it in their canon.
First, because the Torah is the history of God redemption, it is our spiritual roots. Second, the law is a type of our salvation. When we study the Torah, we learn about Jesus and the Father. Thirdly, it reminds us continually of the grace by which we are saved. Fourthly, it contains doctrinal truth that is essential to our theology. Sixthly, the old covenant informs our understanding of the new. Seventhly, we honor it as the Word of God and profitable.
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#16
First, because the Torah is the history of God redemption, it is our spiritual roots. Second, the law is a type of our salvation. When we study the Torah, we learn about Jesus and the Father. Thirdly, it reminds us continually of the grace by which we are saved. Fourthly, it contains doctrinal truth that is essential to our theology. Sixthly, the old covenant informs our understanding of the new. Seventhly, we honor it as the Word of God and profitable.
You skipped fifthly :p
 
H

HumbleSaint

Guest
#19
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Judah.

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. Hebrews 8

If we Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and Love our neighbour as ourselves we fulfill the law.I we love we will not commit adultery, kill or steal, etc Romans 13:9

A believer has the mind of Christ and therefore the fruits of the Spirit are evident in his life. If a person says he is a believer and the works of the flesh are showing then he may be deceived, because God said He would write his law on the believers heart. Therefore a believer should love the things God loves and hate the things God hates. A true believer should desire things above rather than the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life, which are not of the Father but of the world. And the world passeth away and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2
 
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soldierofchrist4ever24

Guest
#20
Well all upon reading this the Spirit really ministered to me to share this study I did with yall....... here gos....




Hello all my brothers, and sisters:). Today we will be going over grace, i want everyone to know i do all these sermons out of love, not strife or debate, as God callse me to do them i pray they will assist in your bible studies etc. Before we begin let us Pray: Father thank you for all you have done today and forever, thank you for your Grace that you bestow upon each of us as your children, thank you for your final sacrafice on calvary(Golgotha) also LORD we pray that your spirit will be upon each and every one of us now as we open your word. May you please give us godly knowledge to understand, and let us do away with mans teaching so that we may better serve you an understand you Holy book as a whole and not in part, we ask this in Jesus' name AMEN. Let us start with an opening verse and also heed the warning with
Quote:
1 Corithians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not decieved:neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.
With that said lets keep this in mind now on to our study. If you will please grab your Bible, all verses are qouted using the King James Version; lets start with
Romans 6:14-15 Which says For sin shall not have dominion over you:for ye are not under the law,but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Sin shall not rule over you for we believers are not under it but grace.
The next verse we are going to look at is
Galatians4:21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
What Paul is saying is that do you not uderstand you can not do it keep all the law that is. Do you all know where a christians appreciation for the grace of God really grows and develops? It only comes as we understand the law of God. We are going to look at four things concerning the law of God, its message, its ablilty, its inablilty, and its fuffillment. Understanding the grace of God is strategic. The law of God is glorious in its own right,its primary purpose is to whet our appetites for(in show us our desperate need for)the grace of God.

1.Message of the Law-
Leviticus19:1-4 And the LORD spake unto Moses saying, Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy:for I the LORD your God am HOLY. Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God. Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to youselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.
Some of the commandments are here but the law is summarized by two words be holy why? Because God is holy, so then how holy do we have to be. Obviously we must attain a holiness that will measure up to God go to
1Peter1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written be ye holy; for I am holy.
In the old testament and new testament God is was and still is holy. we serve a holy God, and the law tells Gods people to be holy. Matthew 5 offers another amazing summary of the law of God. in fact Christs famous sermon on the mount is the law of God intensified. The following is
Matthew5:21-22,27-28,&48 says Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement: and whosoever shall say to his brother Raca(this is aramaic and means like our english saying idiot,blockhead imbusel etc.) shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
verses 27-28 say Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. verse 48 says Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
this message puts us all in trouble, *note*the law does not say do the best you can the fact is God demands more then our best.

2. the ability of the law of God-
it reveals Gods character, he is a holy God, he is neither a cheater, a liar, nor a theif. He is not a adultrer so neither are we to be such. His character is one of the abilitys of the law of God. It also reveals his standards and moral will. The law is to function as a spiritual yard stick, meaning the law of God holds up the standard, of what a holy life should be as one stands before God. It also still has a purpose and one of these purposes can be seen in
Romans3:19-20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped,and all the world may become gulity before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
It makes the whole world Guilty, also there is are yard stick, also thats how we learn what not to do:) now lets turn to
Galatians3:24 Wherefore the law was our school master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
AMEN, It helps us reckognize our need for Christ. just like we keep church and state seperate it is so with law and salvation. we are to obey by faith and with Christ, but the law does not save us. Let us go to
1Timothy1:8 but we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
at this time paul wrote our young brother Timothy the churches were falling victims to alot of false doctrine and alot of the doctrine was the doctrine that only by obeying the law by your own merits etc could you be acceptable in Gods eyes now we know that is not possible and this is what this verse is reffering to. now when we understand the law the right way of course it is good and holy lets go to
Galatians5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
we are not under the law because in Christ we are to be the fuffilment of the law by the spirit we will go into this later and what it means, how can you be under anything if you are the fuffilment? ok i am getting off subject:) let us continue.

3. The inability of the LAW-
Hebrews7:18-19 For there is verily(truthfully) a disannuling(weakness inability etc.) of the commandment going before for the weakness and the unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
as we see here it makes nothing perfect, although it demands perfection it cannot provide it, but in this very verse we see a better hope in which we draw near to God and i think you all know who that hope is:) you want to know to come close to, to walk with a perfect God? there is a better hope and its called the Grace of God, and it is by which we draw near to God, heres also the inability of the law, it has a weakness Gods word says clearly the law made nothing perfect. think about it the law of God is and demands perfection yet it cannot provide it.... wow! lets go to
Galatians2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
this goes into detail about what is required, and is not condeming the law but us, saying it knows we can not do it with out outside help (Jesus, Grace Spirit etc all our help aids our heavenly Father has been so gracious to give to those who will recieve) we cant be justified(proven innocent to sum it up) no one of themselves can live up to the expectations of the law. the law cannot save us is my point we are drawn near God and to obey him and his commandments by faith and Grace by Jesus Christ. lets go to
Galatians3:2 This only would i learn of you, Recieved ye the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by the hearing of Faith?
if we call ourselves christians hopefully and prayerfully we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, AMEN, flip over to
Romans8:8-9 So then they that are in the flesh can not please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
this means we have heard we are sinners and believed and repented and obtained the spirit and in that obtained Christ and Grace AMEN. God didnt say when we where being nice people yea travis thats it jus a lil further sorry it doesnt work that way:) now lets go to Galatians we read 3:2 lets read 3:3 Are yee so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
this is talking to believers that accepted Christ and grace but still were trying to line up to Gods standards on there own, wozers. before i move on i want to point out the inability of the law was designed by God as our all things. he never intended the law to save people, or give them salvation. but....... unfortunatley some folks are ready to when they read verses like this and realize it can not save us or grow us up in the Spirit or justify us they are ready to make a mistake alot of christians do. and that is live in sin, as pointed out the law is holy it has a purpose, it is not to be confused with salvation that comes by Christ and is a gift, but the law was given and for a reason.


4.the fulfillment of the law-
How then do we fulfill good question go back to Matthew chapter5 and read verse 17 which reads think not that i am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil.
now lets remember Gods word says all men are liars; we have sum people that preach and teach to itching ears which means they tell people what they want to hear lets stick to truth, lets let the bible speak on this things shall we please go to
psalm116:11 I said in my haste All men are liars
&
Romans3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but everyman a liar; as it is written. that thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
in other words lets go by the inspired word of God and not people. they will tell you Christ did away with the law etc no! he fufilled the law it was he even he that said in matthew5:18 that until heaven and earth pass by not a jot will be passed away. but anyhoo i am not here for debate etc if anyone has questions concerning things please message me i will answer all questions with the bible not my opinion which means nothing AMEN. we see in matthew5:17 Christ said he would fufil the law and he did. 1. By example he was sinless. 2. by his death that being the penalty of sin although he never sinned. 3. he fufilled by empowiring us to walk day by day in godliness, there are more ways these are a few but empowring us to walk is our focus today lets go to
Colossians1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of Glory.
remember that hope apart from the law earlier here it is, if you look through scripture hope is always talking about something to do with Jesus. ok on to verse 28 Whom we preach warning everyman, and teaching everyman in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
did you catch that? remember be holy for i am holy? and in matthew 5:48 where Christ says be perfect? well here is how in what? Christ Jesus AMEN. the point being thus the more we depend on the Holy Spirit, the more we look to Jesus Christ, the more he, not ourselves, is expressed through us and the more we measure up to the Law of God, and the more the life we live looks like the life Christ lived that never viloated the law. lets go to,
Romans3:21 But now the righteousness of god without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
the Law o f God tells us how righteous we ought to be but there we see a righteousness that is apart from the law it is wholly unavailable through the power of the law. lets stay in

Romans3 and read verses 22-24 Even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and UPON all them that believe: for there is no diffrence: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Being justified freely by his GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
the last verse i really want us to medidate on before i go for now is
Romans8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fufilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Really meditate on that and remember dont listen to men, listen to God, what is this verse saying? is it saying we are not under the law because it is done away with or because we are to fuffil it by living in the Spirit. i am not saying keeping the law gets you saved or anything i am saying the law is still around and churches have a problem with it until they turn to malachi and use it to enforce tithing which hey nothing wrong with a cheerful giver but dont downgrade the law then use it to get your way AMeN. thank you for reading we love you all Brothers, And Sister, in Christ BRother Travis.