A question about the law

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L

lighthousejohn

Guest
#21
I refer you to Matthew 22:34-40: 34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (NIV)

If everything we do is filtered by our love for God and our love for our fellow man; then we will walk in right standing with God.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#22
Okay, this is a very newb question, but it's something I've been wondering.

When we talk about "the law" what exactly are we talking about? I've heard levitcal law, moses's law, little l law, bit L Law, etc.

Now, I was reading galatians 2:11-21 where Paul is mad because the Jewish Christians were telling the Gentile Christians that they HAD to follow the law. Paul told them that no man is justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Chris. I believe the specific reason Paul is so angry at them is because they were forcing circumcision on the non-jewish Christians. But, I'm just curious, what IS the full law?

And to my brothers and sisters who choose to follow the law, why do you chose to continue to observe it? It says in Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside he grae of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

I understand than many of you have said you follow the law not for salvation but because you think it's what God wants us to do, but from this passage and from many others, it appears we have been set free from the law. Why choose bondage instead of slavery?

I'm honestly interested in knowing, and I'm not trying to attack you, just gain a deeper understanding of why you would choose to follow the law. Some scripture defending your stances would be great!

Thanks guys, and for those of you who do not follow the law, let us be kind in how we reply and not become rude, arrogant, petty, or mean.
The Law, was a covenant which God made with the people of Israel, when He took them by the hand and lead them out of captivity. This covenant started with "If you do these things, I will be your God, and you will be My people." The covenant was enacted by God to make this people His people, to set them apart from all the other people. And so, when He first gave this covenant, it was vocally, from the holy mountain. And the people were very afraid, and they did not want God to talk to them, and asked Moses to be an intermeadary with God for them. They said that if God spoke to them, they would die. So, God wrote the Law on tablets. Moses broke them on the idol which Arron had made for the people. So, God had Moses write them on new tablets, and these tablets made it into the ark of the covenant.

Now the priesthood came about because as the people wanted someone to be between them and the Lord, God instituted a priesthood. From this priesthood, came the full Law. This law has been set aside in Christ, (read Hebrews,) because it made nothing perfect, and besides, the priesthood has been changed, and we have one Priest, Jesus Christ the Righteous. He is an everlasting priest.

I have always found it interesting that the Law, the 10 commandments, were given 3 times. And then, what do we find from our new Priest? His new commandment, which He gave 3 times; which is, to love one another, even as He has loved us. And then, even more amazing, we find 3 times the mention of coming into the presence of the Father, in the letter to the Hebrews. Anyway, we have a new covenant with God, a much better covenant, because at one point God even confessed to the people through the prophet that the covenant that He enacted with the people of Israel was not good for them.

God bless,
 
Nov 12, 2009
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#23
I think the book of romans is a great read.
My personal take is that the `New Law` is just a condensed version of the original 10 Commandments. To show your love for God, you follow the first 4; to show your love for your neighbor, you follow the last 6.
The law was created to show us the DEFINITION of Sin.
 
Nov 12, 2009
354
2
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#24
Okay, this is a very newb question, but it's something I've been wondering.

When we talk about "the law" what exactly are we talking about? I've heard levitcal law, moses's law, little l law, bit L Law, etc.

Now, I was reading galatians 2:11-21 where Paul is mad because the Jewish Christians were telling the Gentile Christians that they HAD to follow the law. Paul told them that no man is justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Chris. I believe the specific reason Paul is so angry at them is because they were forcing circumcision on the non-jewish Christians. But, I'm just curious, what IS the full law?

And to my brothers and sisters who choose to follow the law, why do you chose to continue to observe it? It says in Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside he grae of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

I understand than many of you have said you follow the law not for salvation but because you think it's what God wants us to do, but from this passage and from many others, it appears we have been set free from the law. Why choose bondage instead of slavery?

I'm honestly interested in knowing, and I'm not trying to attack you, just gain a deeper understanding of why you would choose to follow the law. Some scripture defending your stances would be great!

Thanks guys, and for those of you who do not follow the law, let us be kind in how we reply and not become rude, arrogant, petty, or mean.
When Jesus died on the cross, he was the sacrificial lamb that paralelled the sacrifices that man had to bring to the temple to atone for sins. The new law requires a different repentance, but doesn't change the law.
 
M

machew

Guest
#25
The Law is all that God instructed the Jews to do before Jesus came. Now the Law is written on our hearts and we are under Grace. In other words because of the Holy Spirit in us, we should desire to follow the law because we desire to naturally rather than following it out of obligation.
 
Jan 22, 2010
1,022
1
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#26
The Law, was a covenant which God made with the people of Israel, when He took them by the hand and lead them out of captivity. This covenant started with "If you do these things, I will be your God, and you will be My people." The covenant was enacted by God to make this people His people, to set them apart from all the other people. And so, when He first gave this covenant, it was vocally, from the holy mountain. And the people were very afraid, and they did not want God to talk to them, and asked Moses to be an intermeadary with God for them. They said that if God spoke to them, they would die. So, God wrote the Law on tablets. Moses broke them on the idol which Arron had made for the people. So, God had Moses write them on new tablets, and these tablets made it into the ark of the covenant.

Now the priesthood came about because as the people wanted someone to be between them and the Lord, God instituted a priesthood. From this priesthood, came the full Law. This law has been set aside in Christ, (read Hebrews,) because it made nothing perfect, and besides, the priesthood has been changed, and we have one Priest, Jesus Christ the Righteous. He is an everlasting priest.

I have always found it interesting that the Law, the 10 commandments, were given 3 times. And then, what do we find from our new Priest? His new commandment, which He gave 3 times; which is, to love one another, even as He has loved us. And then, even more amazing, we find 3 times the mention of coming into the presence of the Father, in the letter to the Hebrews. Anyway, we have a new covenant with God, a much better covenant, because at one point God even confessed to the people through the prophet that the covenant that He enacted with the people of Israel was not good for them.

God bless,
The law has never been just the ten commandments. You've ignored the other 603.
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#28
I'm not excluding any. There's 613, not just ten.
 
S

Samuel7

Guest
#30
Hello sis, Iam samuel7 I might be able to shed some light on this controverisal topic...The Law was desighned to reveal sin. think of this you tell yourchild do not touch the painting guess what is abput to happen to the painting....touch touch touch. Why do we have that? paul said that before he knew the law he was alive....but after the law came sin revived I died! sin power comes from the law so by it our utter sinfulness becomes apparent. We become hopless and power less aganst this...law of sin and death...But Jesus fullfilled the law and became the end ofthe law to those who believe.

now the law (principle) of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the cycle sin and death hope this help sis
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#31
The law has never been just the ten commandments. You've ignored the other 603.
Actually, God added those others, later. The original covenant was the 10.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#32
Again, I will do something I am loath to do, quote scripture. (Because it should be living in us, and we should recognize it when we see or hear it.)

"For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness, for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."God has instituted a new covenant, and the Law was the letter of the old covenant. If one seeks to please God by the old covenant, then he is denying the new covenant that God has brought in Jesus Christ.

The purpose of both covenants was to bring the people closer to God, to allow us to draw near. When God first gave the covenant, the people refused, saying, "Do not let God speak to us, lest we die." And so all the rest of the Law was added to the covenant with this stiff necked and stubborn people.

We have a new covenant where we can draw near to God with confidence, without fear of death, with joy in His love. There is a replacement of the old covenant with the new, because the old covenant was weak, because of those people, who were just like us, unable to accept God as He is, without an intermeadeary to be our Priest. We draw near to God under this new covenant, and everyone who does draw near to God in Christ Jesus, well, Jesus always lives to intercede for them.
 
Jan 22, 2010
1,022
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#33
Actually, God added those others, later. The original covenant was the 10.
That's not true. The very first of the 613 is the very first commandment ever given in Scripture - Be fruitful and multiply.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#34
That's not true. The very first of the 613 is the very first commandment ever given in Scripture - Be fruitful and multiply.

Amazing! The Law is the covenant that God made with the children of Israel. The Law did not come about until Moses. I think that you believe what you want to believe, and what is written in the scriptures makes no difference to you.

Well, go, and be fruitful and multiply then.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#35
Well all upon reading this the Spirit really ministered to me to share this study I did with yall....... here gos....


Travis.
with respect to this post in its entirety (although i didnt quote the whole thing):

Absolutely amazing post travis. Grace imprinted on the heart of the believer through the conviction of the Holy spirit by receiving Christ as Lord. I with every fibre of my being understand grace but to artiulate it... well, that I suppose is the job of you and others like shad & charisenexcelcis who I've also read his postings on grace and stood in agreement. We are all parts of the body of Christ and I suppose your words will fall flat to those under the law and who havent received Christ as Lord... they cant understand fully without being spirit filled just as I couldnt understand b4 I was spirit filled. We will pray for salvation & redemption in Christ for Nuhen that he would have sudden understanding of these things by the power of the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord!
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#36
God has always wanted a people to call His own. Grace is approaching the living God, in purity of heart and mind, drawing near to Him, to fellowship with Him, as friends. Adam and Eve were the first people to have grace from God, as He walked with them in the Garden. Eve gave this grace up for knowledge, and Adam gave this up for Eve. Enoch walked with God, and then he was no more, for God had taken him. Noah walked with God, and God saved him and his family from the destruction of the world. Abraham walked with God, and God gave him very great promises. Issac and Jacob and Joseph walked with God. Moses walked with God, and God heard the cries of the people in their captivity, the children of Israel, and sent Moses to deliver them out of their bondage. And He chose them to be His people, and made a covenant with them, but they did not want to walk with God. They were afraid. They could see the holy mountain, and the lightnings and the thunders and the shaking of the ground. They wanted nothing to do with God, just like Adam and Eve in the garden after they came aware of the knowledge of good and evil. They knew that they were naked, sinful, and that God had just reason to slay them. They told Moses to not let God speak to them lest they die. All of these are examples of grace with God, both successful and failed.

Along comes Jesus. He turns everything upside down. Why? Because the people had developed a religion, with a Law given by God, to identify them as God's people. Were they under grace? No, because they could not draw near to God, only the high priest, once a year, and only with the shedding of blood. And if the high priest went into the holy place with doubt or unrighteousness, then he died in that holy place. They were God's people, but they had a very strained relationship with Him, not really grace. Jesus upset things so bad because He claimed to have comunnication with God, actually said that God spoke to Him and through Him, and even worse, that He was God's Son. Well, that not only made Him a false prophet, but a heretic, a liar, because everyone knew that to be God's Son made one God. And that just could not be. And so, Jesus was crucified, not because these men crucified Him, but because He gave Himself up to be our sacrifice, in order that we could have grace with God. Yes, that is right, so that we could become the people of God, those whom He could commumicate with, we would hear His voice, and not be afraid and close our hearts against Him. What God has wanted all along, a people who love Him, like the Father that He is.

That old covenant was a picture of what those who would be God's people would look like. I believe that if the people, upon hearing the first words of the covenant had said in their hearts, sure, lets do it, then God would have made it possible for them to try. But they turned away from God, and hardened their hearts, and rejected Him, His voice to them, and God made the covenant impossible to keep, because the people had already rejected the reason for the covenant in the first place.

Now God has put into place a new covenant, not like the first covenant, but much better, because the completion of the work of the covenant has already been accomplished, by Jesus. And we have been placed in fact, in His completion of the covenant, and He is the strength and the power of the works of the covenant, in us. And our place in these things? To draw near to our heavenly Father, to live with Him and in Him through Christ Jesus, to love Him and be with Him, as His people. Grace.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#37
To me, and please, don't take this offensively at all, but from what I've read it almost seems like this. By continuing to strap yourselves down to the law, you are forgoing the freedom Christ gave you when he died on the cross. It's sort of like a criminal who goes to prison for a crime, and later, someone absolves him of EVERYTHING, and he chooses to stay in prison because that's where they wanted him to be in the first place regardless of him being given his freedom. I understand that is a poor analogy, but it's the best thing my brain could come up with to articulate what my feelings are.

Jesus told us all the law and prophets hung on Love God with all your heart, Love your neighbors as yourselves. He also mentioned that the law was impossible to keep, that we weren't justified by it, and that His sacrifice set us free. In a way, but feeling like you have to keep the letter of the law, you're saying Jesus didn't do it for you already...you aren't accepting the gift of freedom He died for.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anybody who follows the law is dong something wrong, but it feels sort of unneccesary, particularly the stuff about being unclean and anything dealing with sacrfices.
 
Jan 22, 2010
1,022
1
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#38
To me, and please, don't take this offensively at all, but from what I've read it almost seems like this. By continuing to strap yourselves down to the law, you are forgoing the freedom Christ gave you when he died on the cross. It's sort of like a criminal who goes to prison for a crime, and later, someone absolves him of EVERYTHING, and he chooses to stay in prison because that's where they wanted him to be in the first place regardless of him being given his freedom. I understand that is a poor analogy, but it's the best thing my brain could come up with to articulate what my feelings are.

Jesus told us all the law and prophets hung on Love God with all your heart, Love your neighbors as yourselves. He also mentioned that the law was impossible to keep, that we weren't justified by it, and that His sacrifice set us free. In a way, but feeling like you have to keep the letter of the law, you're saying Jesus didn't do it for you already...you aren't accepting the gift of freedom He died for.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anybody who follows the law is dong something wrong, but it feels sort of unneccesary, particularly the stuff about being unclean and anything dealing with sacrfices.
It's a personal thing, I suppose. But my life got a heck of a lot better and happier when I started following Torah. I feel a lot closer to G-d now than ever before.

It's not about following it perfectly, because Scripture only shows two people that did. Well, three, if you count Yeshua. It's just about striving and making that effort.

G-d gave up EVERYTHING for you. He gave up His Son. Torah really isn't that hard to do, so why not just try?
 
S

soldierofchrist4ever24

Guest
#39
with respect to this post in its entirety (although i didnt quote the whole thing):

Absolutely amazing post travis. Grace imprinted on the heart of the believer through the conviction of the Holy spirit by receiving Christ as Lord. I with every fibre of my being understand grace but to artiulate it... well, that I suppose is the job of you and others like shad & charisenexcelcis who I've also read his postings on grace and stood in agreement. We are all parts of the body of Christ and I suppose your words will fall flat to those under the law and who havent received Christ as Lord... they cant understand fully without being spirit filled just as I couldnt understand b4 I was spirit filled. We will pray for salvation & redemption in Christ for Nuhen that he would have sudden understanding of these things by the power of the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord!

Thank you so much sis but glory to God he is the potter i am the clay a servant :) simply doing what he has called me to do God bless you all. In Christ, Brother Travis.
 
O

oopsies

Guest
#40
Nuhen, would mind giving me the scriptures please? Everything I've read so far is that Christ died and fulfilled the law and that we are now free from it, but it would be nice to see the scripture you have, too.

Thank you all for your posts and for helping me with the confusion of what the Law is. I'm still trucking along in the new testement and haven't gotten back around to the old yet.
You may also be interested to know that there was a ritual on Yom Kippur where they would tie a white ribbon to the horn of a goat and the other end to the temple gate/doors. Then they would snip it in half and drive the goat off a cliff. When the goat died, the ribbon in the temple would turn red if God accepted the sin offering and renewed His covenant with Israel. But after Jesus died and was resurrected, the ribbon never turned red again. This is because God accepted Jesus' death as the ultimate sin atonement for past, present, and future sins.