A Thank-you Jesus! about Isaiah 28:9-12

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Oct 8, 2017
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#1
I was looking up Isaiah 28:10 as part of something for church but couldn't keep from reading verse 11. And I really want to say Thank you Jesus for giving the stammering lips and another tongue that is the rest for the people.

Yes, I realize that there are those who don't appreciate speaking in tongues (the stammering, babbly kind) and I'm fairly sure that most of them won't appreciate this post much either... but I really appreciate what God has given.

I've heard someone say that Isaiah 28:11 isn't about "speaking in tongues" but just the other day I was listening to or reading (I forgot which) 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Paul is basically quoting Isaiah 28:11 and explaining that it is a prophecy about tongues and that even though God sends tongues as a sign, people won't believe it.

That kind of blows my mind that people can read those accounts and see & hear people speaking in those very stammering lips and another tongue and still disregard it. Yet that is what it says will happen.

And if there are any reading/hearing this that are asking "But how can we believe what we just can't believe?"... The answer is pretty much the same as all the other portions of scripture that are currently closed to us (because in some senses and areas we are all blind, needing God to give sight to our eyes)... We need to pour out our honest request to God for him to show us the (any) truth we cannot see. And then keep asking God, whenever the topic comes up, until he does open our eyes to what it REALLY means. Then we know and can stand on it no matter what others say... "for" or "against" it.

There are two keys that make that process (receiving an answer from God) easier:
  1. DON'T settle for the interpretations of man. ( Meaning, don't get impatient with God and start asking men what they think until one of them says something convincing enough that you accept it and stop waiting for God to show you clearly (and probably directly, without need of some man to teach you). Wait until you KNOW.
  2. Don't give up. God promises "Ask and ye shall receive" and advises us to ask like the widow asked the unjust judge in Luke 18:1-8. God promises he will answer. But He expects/requires that you keep your request active until the answer is given. If the widow would have given up before the unjust judge decided to answer, would he still have done the thing? (Spoiler: No) James 1:6-7 instructs us that if we give up in our mind, we also shouldn't expect to receive. God showed me that getting answers in prayer is like learning to whistle, or finding a four-leaf clover... If you give up before success, you don't get what you wanted. You have to set your mind to (and actually do) keep at it until you get what you came for. (paraphrased).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Jul 3, 2015
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#2
Those people speaking a foreign tongue are being brought against Israel...
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#3
1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV
Wherefore tongues ARE for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

ARE means "this is current". If someone wanted to say the stammering lips were about people being sent to Isreal in the book of Isaiah, that would have made sense to me.. BUT... Paul doesn't use that particular interpretation.. Paul is saying that that scripture IS about speaking in tongues, and that speaking in tongues IS the fulfilling of that scripture. "Wherefore tongues ARE for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:"

The "foreigners being sent to Israel" interpretation doesn't make sense in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22.

@Magenta

Love in Jesus
 
Jul 3, 2015
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#4
I was speaking to the Isaiah verse. You did not give it so I looked it up :)

…10For they hear: “Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line;
a little here, a little there.” 11Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues,
He will speak to this people 12to whom He has said: “This is the place of rest,
let the weary rest; this is the place of repose.” But they would not listen.…


Cross References
1 Corinthians 14:21
It is written in the Law: "By strange tongues and foreign lips I will speak
to this people, but even then they will not listen to Me, says the Lord."


Isaiah 33:19
You will no longer see the insolent, a people whose speech is
unintelligible, who stammer in a language you cannot understand.


Jeremiah 5:15
Behold, I am bringing a distant nation against you, O house of Israel," declares the LORD. "It is an established
nation, an ancient nation, a nation whose language you do not know and whose speech you do not understand.


Ezekiel 3:5
For you are not being sent to a people of unfamiliar speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel--


Treasury of Scripture
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


Deuteronomy 28:49
The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth,
as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;


Jeremiah 5:15
Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is
an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.


1 Corinthians 14:21
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak
unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.


Source: Isaiah 28:11 Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues, He will speak to this people (biblehub.com)
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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#5
IS 28 is pre-babylonian captivity. Not to say it isn't a proto-type for Christ's age. But it's about how the Assyrians, and then the Babylonians would come and take Israel, and then Judah.

Isaiah: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.


Paul: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him;

Isaiah 28:11 and explaining that it is a prophecy about tongues and that even though God sends tongues as a sign, people won't believe it.
Nope, that's definitely not what Paul is saying. By referencing Isaiah, he's pointing out that an "unknown tongue" is a sign (judgement) against non-believers. It's not a sign for them that believe.

If a tongue is interpreted- that's different, because it's not "unknown" then. The point he makes in Corinthians, is that you do not gather together in a mass-tongue speaking group- because if people don't understand the language you are speaking, they will think you are all nuts.
The "foreigners being sent to Israel" interpretation doesn't make sense in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22.
It does.
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#6
I was speaking to the Isaiah verse. You did not give it so I looked it up :)

…10For they hear: “Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line;
a little here, a little there.” 11Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues,
He will speak to this people 12to whom He has said: “This is the place of rest,
let the weary rest; this is the place of repose.” But they would not listen.…


Cross References
1 Corinthians 14:21
It is written in the Law: "By strange tongues and foreign lips I will speak
to this people, but even then they will not listen to Me, says the Lord."


Isaiah 33:19
You will no longer see the insolent, a people whose speech is
unintelligible, who stammer in a language you cannot understand.


Jeremiah 5:15
Behold, I am bringing a distant nation against you, O house of Israel," declares the LORD. "It is an established
nation, an ancient nation, a nation whose language you do not know and whose speech you do not understand.


Ezekiel 3:5
For you are not being sent to a people of unfamiliar speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel--


Treasury of Scripture
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


Deuteronomy 28:49
The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth,
as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;


Jeremiah 5:15
Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is
an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.


1 Corinthians 14:21
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak
unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.


Source: Isaiah 28:11 Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues, He will speak to this people (biblehub.com)
I took a nap then had to make a several hour run for supplies. I'll get back to you on this because I think it deserves more than the "I don't think those are all talking about the same thing" that I would say right off. "I don't think..." just doesn't strike me as a solid argument. LOL. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#7
I took a nap then had to make a several hour run for supplies. I'll get back to you on this because I think it deserves more than the "I don't think those are all talking about the same thing" that I would say right off. "I don't think..." just doesn't strike me as a solid argument. LOL. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I thought your OP was making a connection between that Isaiah verse and Paul? :unsure:
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#8
I thought your OP was making a connection between that Isaiah verse and Paul? :unsure:
It is. Paul is basically quoting Isaiah 28:11 in his 1 Cor. 14:21-22 words to the Corinthians. He's saying that because of (in accordance with) Is 28:11, tongues work as a sign to those who refuse to believe. It is something God set up; they can and do observe; yet even with that as evidence (a witness) right in front of them, and the people saying "Hey, you need this. This is the promise. This is the rest. It is for ALL that the Lord our God shall call." (like I and others have been saying)... they still don't believe.

In doing that, they turn their table (and that which should be their blessing) into a stumbling block. (Ps. 69:22) and something causing their destruction. (As you suggested Is 28:11 is being used...to cause destruction to the rebellious).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#9
Why stammering lips / "unknown tongues" is the rest wherein ye may cause the weary to rest. ( @Magenta and All)

Hebrews 4:10 KJV
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.​

If I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth but my understanding is unfruitful. That means my understanding is dormant, unproductive, not producing, taking a break, taking a sabbatical, resting.

It is also a fulfilment of Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths."​

When speaking in tongues, we are at the mercy of the Spirit (so to speak) because our understanding does not know what is being prayed, other than trusting Rom 8:26-27, etc explaining what the spirit is asking when it is asking things we know not, with groanings that cannot be uttered.

We are truly "leaning not unto our own understanding" but instead are "trusting in the Lord with all our heart" (at least in that action because we're giving him control, instead of our understanding).

God tells us the spirit is asking good things but it is still difficult for our flesh to submit to that kind of "Sit down, shut up, and let the Lord take care of things" that is indicative of sabbaths. (paraphrased in my wording)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#10
Isaiah: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.


Paul: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him;
In some ways I prefer to answer your points in nearly reverse order but I want to express appreciation for what you're saying here. "If 'unknown' tongues is not being spoken unto man, how could it be being spoken TO the people?"

Rather than give an incomplete and/or poorly worded answer, I'm going to leave this question on the table for now. I like the question for one because (to me) it indicates a deeper understanding. And two, it's something I want to pray about to get the answer right.

I've decided to address your other points in isolated postings to make the individual posts shorter. I hope that's ok.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#11
Nope, that's definitely not what Paul is saying. By referencing Isaiah, he's pointing out that an "unknown tongue" is a sign (judgement) against non-believers. It's not a sign for them that believe.
How it is a sign for unbelievers is pretty much expressed in Post#8.

But I want to point out how speaking in tongues is used by believers as a sign in scripture :

Acts 10:44-47 KJV
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?​

In that scripture, both those who came with Peter (believers) and Peter himself determined that these Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost because they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. That's believers using tongues as a sign (signal, witness, indicator) that the Holy Ghost has been given.

According to the interpretation of 1 Cor 14:21-22 that most people seem to use, that's not possible. That's not the same as saying it's not possible.. it's just saying that it doesn't mesh with most people's understanding of 1 Cor 14 (as a whole), or their thoughts about the purpose(s) of speaking in tongues (as a whole). :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#12
If a tongue is interpreted- that's different, because it's not "unknown" then.
This quote is why I wanted to address your comments in nearly reverse order.

When YOU think of "speaking in tongues" (specifically 'unknown' tongues) are you thinking it is unknown (not understood) by the SPEAKER? Or do you think the speaker knows what he/she is saying but only the audience (of people) does not understand?

Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Oct 8, 2017
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#13
The point he makes in Corinthians, is that you do not gather together in a mass-tongue speaking group- because if people don't understand the language you are speaking, they will think you are all nuts.
No, that's not what it says. It only says the "unlearned or unbelievers" will think they are nuts.

1 Corinthians 14:23 KJV
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?​

It makes no similar claim of those who are learned or are believers. It's only a negative "sign" to the unbelievers.

This is another instance where the doctrine can be seen in action (and therefore assumptions can be tested) by comparing them to the examples recorded in the scriptures:

Acts 1:15 KJV
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)​
...
Acts 2:1-4 KJV
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. [2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. [3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​
Acts 2:5 KJV
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.​
Acts 2:12-13 KJV
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? [13] Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Verse 13 is the manifestation of unbelievers saying the tongues-speakers are mad (insane, drunk, high, etc) as described in 1 Cor. 14:23.

Was it WRONG for the believers to all start speaking in tongues when they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost (suddenly and while gathered in one place)? Nope. So it's not by definition wrong. But it causes questions among those who don't know what's going on...and those who cling to unbelief or refuse to learn (Hosea 4:6) will speak evil.

So, if possible we will educate anyone who might come to a group setting like a prayer meeting (where everyone might be praying individually to God but possibly in tongues) as to what tongues is and does and why they might be praying in an 'unknown' tongue.

But again, It's not necessarily wrong for a group to start speaking in tongues (Biblically) unless you're going to accuse God of wrong doing for pouring it out on GROUPS of people like he did on the day of Pentecost and again in Acts 10:44-47 <-- and that happened right in the middle of preaching. Fortunately, Peter was wise enough to roll with what God was doing.

Your thoughts?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby