Abiding in the Father, Son/Christ/Jesus, Spirit, His love, grace, truth, light, law of life, kingdom of Heaven/Father, and the world of faith

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no1

Member
Aug 19, 2019
43
13
8
#1
The bible talks a lot about being or abiding in some one or some thing, and I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss.

Below are some questions I would ask on the subject.

Abiding in the Father, Son/Christ/Jesus, Spirit, His love, grace, truth, light, law of life, kingdom of Heaven/Father, and the world of faith.

Can we abide in one and not another of that which is listed above? Can the truth abide in us and without Christ being there at the same time?

Do we abide in any or all of the above list, at the same time, and is it temporary or permanent, intermittent (in and out of) or constant and perpetual (OSAS)?

What does it mean to abide in Christ, the truth, or the kingdom of heaven?

And what about, any or all of the above list, abiding in us?

Can we abide in the above list, while simultaneously fail to keep the same in us or in our hearts? In other words, can we abide in Christ, if He is not in us, or can we abide in truth, if the truth is not in us?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,553
2,220
113
www.christiancourier.com
#2
The bible talks a lot about being or abiding in some one or some thing, and I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss.

Below are some questions I would ask on the subject.

Abiding in the Father, Son/Christ/Jesus, Spirit, His love, grace, truth, light, law of life, kingdom of Heaven/Father, and the world of faith.

Can we abide in one and not another of that which is listed above? Can the truth abide in us and without Christ being there at the same time?

Do we abide in any or all of the above list, at the same time, and is it temporary or permanent, intermittent (in and out of) or constant and perpetual (OSAS)?

What does it mean to abide in Christ, the truth, or the kingdom of heaven?

And what about, any or all of the above list, abiding in us?

Can we abide in the above list, while simultaneously fail to keep the same in us or in our hearts? In other words, can we abide in Christ, if He is not in us, or can we abide in truth, if the truth is not in us?
To answer your question that synopsizes your questions, "can we abide in Christ, if He is not in us, or can we abide in turth, if the truth is not in us?"
No, I don't believe so.

John 8:31-32 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The Book of John chapter 15 verses 4 through 9 (NIV) Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. 9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.


The Book of John chapter 17:
17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.



The Book of 1st John chapter 2: 1My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an [a]Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. 3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him: 6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,214
8,826
113
#3
The bible talks a lot about being or abiding in some one or some thing, and I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss.

Below are some questions I would ask on the subject.

Abiding in the Father, Son/Christ/Jesus, Spirit, His love, grace, truth, light, law of life, kingdom of Heaven/Father, and the world of faith.

Can we abide in one and not another of that which is listed above? Can the truth abide in us and without Christ being there at the same time?

Do we abide in any or all of the above list, at the same time, and is it temporary or permanent, intermittent (in and out of) or constant and perpetual (OSAS)?

What does it mean to abide in Christ, the truth, or the kingdom of heaven?

And what about, any or all of the above list, abiding in us?

Can we abide in the above list, while simultaneously fail to keep the same in us or in our hearts? In other words, can we abide in Christ, if He is not in us, or can we abide in truth, if the truth is not in us?
As "abide" is infrequently used in modern English, I checked the definition...

(Oxford; https://ca.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=jnazafzv&type=E111CA0G0&p=definition abide)

a·bide
/əˈbīd/


verb
  • 1. accept or act in accordance with (a rule, decision, or recommendation): "I said I would abide by their decision"
  • 2. be unable to tolerate (someone or something): informal "if there is one thing I cannot abide it is a lack of discipline"
  • 3. (of a feeling or memory) continue without fading or being lost: "at least one memory will abide"
  • ▪ live; dwell: archaic "many unskillful Men do abide in our City of London"
The synonyms in the third definition fit the biblical usage most closely; to "abide" in the biblical sense is to continue, remain, or persist.

So to "abide in Christ" is to remain in Him, to continue believing regardless of the situations we face, and to seek to remain connected to Him through prayer, reading, and fellowship with His Church. Because God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, remaining in Christ is remaining in God, and consequently, remaining in the other ways you mentioned. I believe that it is possible to get off track in one area while "abiding" in others, but I also believe that the Holy Spirit will nudge us back into a healthy balance.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
43
#4
Can we abide in the above list, while simultaneously fail to keep the same in us or in our hearts? In other words, can we abide in Christ, if He is not in us, or can we abide in truth, if the truth is not in us?
Sorry no1, but obviously not, ...I mean, I ask you, if Christ is the truth, which he is, then how can we have the truth, and not have him or abide in him? To abide in the truth, is to know and believe in Christ, everything else is a falsehood. So, invariably, if you don't have Jesus, you have fallacy, and if you have Jesus, then inextricably, you have truth.
In other words, if Jesus is the truth, and nothing else is, then the only way to have the truth, is to have him.
The only way to lose one or the other, is to lose one or the other.

Now, your other question was, can you lose one or the other i.e. ubiquitous question OSAS. My answer is yes, absolutely. Otherwise Jesus would never had said, IF you abide in me (like Dino said, remain), I will remain in you, ...otherwise not.

John 15:1-7
15:1. "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5. "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
 

no1

Member
Aug 19, 2019
43
13
8
#5
To answer your question that synopsizes your questions, "can we abide in Christ, if He is not in us, or can we abide in turth, if the truth is not in us?"
No, I don't believe so.

John 8:31-32 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The Book of John chapter 15 verses 4 through 9 (NIV) Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. 9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.


The Book of John chapter 17:17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.



The Book of 1st John chapter 2: 1My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an [a]Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. 3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him: 6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.
When the bible mentions truth, what exactly do you believe it is talking about?
I mean, truth, when you think about it, is a pretty broad sweeping word.
Laws are truths.
Such as the law of addition like, 1+1+1=3, is a perpetual truth in the natural world.
Interestingly though, that law/truth doesn't apply when it comes to God. According to the bible, 1+1+1=1, the triune God is One.
Back to the truth issue.
Let's take healing for example.
Most perhaps, believe healing is a gift undeserved, while others believe it to be a right for the children of God.
They both cannot be the truth.
Another area would be OSAS vs salvation is conditional.
They conflict, so at least one is not true.
So if we all say we have the truth, when clearly we ALL don't, and since the bible ties the truth to Jesus, what happens to the ones who don't have the whole truth, all of it, or parts of it, when they think they do?
Do they have Jesus or not?
We all say, we are born again and have Jesus in our hearts, but if we don't have SOME truths right, or if we no longer believe somethings in the gospel when, at one time we did, do we really or still have Jesus abiding in us?
What do you think?
 

no1

Member
Aug 19, 2019
43
13
8
#6
So to "abide in Christ" is to remain in Him, to continue believing regardless of the situations we face, and to seek to remain connected to Him through prayer, reading, and fellowship with His Church. Because God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, remaining in Christ is remaining in God, and consequently, remaining in the other ways you mentioned. I believe that it is possible to get off track in one area while "abiding" in others, but I also believe that the Holy Spirit will nudge us back into a healthy balance.
To believe in Jesus is to believe in the truth, yes?
Since Jesus IS the truth.
If one gets "off track" in some areas like, doubting Jesus is God, or I have to do good works, like giving to the poor, to keep my salvation, ... etc., what do you think would happen to them?
What truths matter and what truths don't?
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
43
#7
When the bible mentions truth, what exactly do you believe it is talking about?
I mean, truth, when you think about it, is a pretty broad sweeping word.
Laws are truths.
Such as the law of addition like, 1+1+1=3, is a perpetual truth in the natural world.
Interestingly though, that law/truth doesn't apply when it comes to God. According to the bible, 1+1+1=1, the triune God is One.
Back to the truth issue.
Let's take healing for example.
Most perhaps, believe healing is a gift undeserved, while others believe it to be a right for the children of God.
They both cannot be the truth.
Another area would be OSAS vs salvation is conditional.
They conflict, so at least one is not true.
So if we all say we have the truth, when clearly we ALL don't, and since the bible ties the truth to Jesus, what happens to the ones who don't have the whole truth, all of it, or parts of it, when they think they do?
Do they have Jesus or not?
We all say, we are born again and have Jesus in our hearts, but if we don't have SOME truths right, or if we no longer believe somethings in the gospel when, at one time we did, do we really or still have Jesus abiding in us?
What do you think?
I don't think that one needs 100% biblical truth to be saved. To be correct on the more important issues, i.e. atonement, faith, King of Kings, repentance, then yes, you are saved. To be incorrect on your views over women's standing in authority, soul sleep or soul awake, how one regards the sabbath, i'd be surprised if one can lose their salvation over those issues.
 

no1

Member
Aug 19, 2019
43
13
8
#8
Sorry no1, but obviously not, ...I mean, I ask you, if Christ is the truth, which he is, then how can we have the truth, and not have him or abide in him? To abide in the truth, is to know and believe in Christ, everything else is a falsehood. So, invariably, if you don't have Jesus, you have fallacy, and if you have Jesus, then inextricably, you have truth.
In other words, if Jesus is the truth, and nothing else is, then the only way to have the truth, is to have him.
The only way to lose one or the other, is to lose one or the other.

Now, your other question was, can you lose one or the other i.e. ubiquitous question OSAS. My answer is yes, absolutely. Otherwise Jesus would never had said, IF you abide in me (like Dino said, remain), I will remain in you, ...otherwise not.

John 15:1-7
15:1. "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5. "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
As I stated above, everyone claims to have the truth, when there are many variations of beliefs, even concerning the same scripture verse.
Some doctrines conflict so much so that they are at the opposite ends of the truth spectrum, like the east is from the west.
I think we can agree, there is more than one truth, and so I believe it come down to some truths are more important to keep than others, which begs the question, which ones?
 

no1

Member
Aug 19, 2019
43
13
8
#9
I don't think that one needs 100% biblical truth to be saved. To be correct on the more important issues, i.e. atonement, faith, King of Kings, repentance, then yes, you are saved. To be incorrect on your views over women's standing in authority, soul sleep or soul awake, how one regards the sabbath, i'd be surprised if one can lose their salvation over those issues.
Okay, you answered my question I asked you in the following post, so disregard that.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,214
8,826
113
#10
To believe in Jesus is to believe in the truth, yes?
Since Jesus IS the truth.
If one gets "off track" in some areas like, doubting Jesus is God, or I have to do good works, like giving to the poor, to keep my salvation, ... etc., what do you think would happen to them?
What truths matter and what truths don't?
We need to be careful not to engage in an inappropriate equivocation. Jesus is the Truth, but "truth" is not necessarily Jesus. We can believe in Jesus and believe error on secondary issues.

After I believed in Jesus, the Holy Spirit led me over time to believe that Jesus is God.. I think doubt is part of the normal Christian experience, because it leads us to investigate and confirm the truths of the faith. Scripture teaches that salvation is based on belief in Jesus Christ and His finished work, not on our perfect understanding of it. If we are open to the instruction of the Holy Spirit, He will lead us into all truth. I will not speculate on the end state of those whose beliefs go astray on minor matters. If they consistently reject major truths, I would question their salvation.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,553
2,220
113
www.christiancourier.com
#11
When the bible mentions truth, what exactly do you believe it is talking about?
I mean, truth, when you think about it, is a pretty broad sweeping word.
Laws are truths.
Such as the law of addition like, 1+1+1=3, is a perpetual truth in the natural world.
Interestingly though, that law/truth doesn't apply when it comes to God. According to the bible, 1+1+1=1, the triune God is One.
Back to the truth issue.
Let's take healing for example.
Most perhaps, believe healing is a gift undeserved, while others believe it to be a right for the children of God.
They both cannot be the truth.
Another area would be OSAS vs salvation is conditional.
They conflict, so at least one is not true.
So if we all say we have the truth, when clearly we ALL don't, and since the bible ties the truth to Jesus, what happens to the ones who don't have the whole truth, all of it, or parts of it, when they think they do?
Do they have Jesus or not?
We all say, we are born again and have Jesus in our hearts, but if we don't have SOME truths right, or if we no longer believe somethings in the gospel when, at one time we did, do we really or still have Jesus abiding in us?
What do you think?
Talk about timing. I posted this in a different thread, found here, and so since you asked about truth also, I think my other reply in the other thread may actually cover your entire question. If not please let me know.

The truth shall set us free. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. He showed us, as what appeared to be a Jewish male in Palestine, the power of God because Jesus was God. He was knitted together by His Holy Spirit power in the womb of Mary and was born into the world as, Emmanuel= God with us.
And in this blessing, He showed us that the separation of our flesh from our God is the illusion. Because the truth is, no thing can separate us from the source of our being. Which is what Jesus taught us. That this world is the actual illusion. That death is the illusion. That we are holy, eternal souls of and from the Creator of all of it.

Jesus is the Bridge that brings that illusion of separation into perspective. Have faith Jesus took all that we are led to believe keeps us separated from our Father upon Himself on the cross; Sin. Which is transgression of God's best for us. So that we, hearing that, can release the trappings of this world upon our mind, and instead of thinking we must satisfy the flesh, the carnality, the hedonistic spirit, the material desires for "stuff", cars, money, houses, bling, etc... , because we imagine this life is our one shot and then we are no more, as atheists insist.

And having released that, having repented of all that we did while locked in our vision of this worlds importance in our life, receive the truth of God in Christ. That we are more than simple flesh and bone, as Jesus proved when He walked from the tomb having overcome the first death.

That we are sacred temples that are home to the Holy Spirit God that is Creator of all things. And as such, when this flesh we valued satisfying so much before finally succumbs to the nature of life's transference unto death, it shall return to the ground from which it was made, and our soul shall return to the Father that gave it.

Jesus is the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, which He was in flesh, except through, through, God. (Emmanuel=God with us).
In other words, we are of and from God and we shall return to God. Because once we believe, know, accept, cherish the truth, that Jesus taught about redemption, repentance, and reconciliation, we enter into His hand, the security of the promise, which is actually a fact that is Creator and Creation, and no one, not one, will take us from His hand.

Because we know the truth.

And that Truth has set us free.

Adding here:
The truth is, we are God'sm no, not demigods, meaning we belong to and with God. When we hold faith in Christ the veil between the worlds is rent asunder and we come to the knowledge of that truth.