Abortion - Bible and Feminism

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tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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Do you consider a miscarriage an abortion? Do you consider a failed ectopic pregnancy an abortion? In other words what is the definition of "abortion" that you are using? Before simply saying "Abortion is murder" I need to know what you are referring to specifically.
I would surmise that choosing to willfully end the pregnancy is murder and not the examples that you stated.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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This biblical passage is about a prophecy, not abortion. And one more thing: A fetus is not a baby or a human being (from a medical and legal point of view), finally get it!
...but from a moral view it is indeed human life.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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In the USA, but also in Germany and Austria, Christians have different opinions on the subject of abortion. Some give women the right to decide for themselves what feminists demand; others see abortion as murder, and aborted women and doctors as murderers.
But is it really just a "black and white thing"? Or is it a little more complicated?
Should a woman or girl who has been raped be forced to have a baby, or should she not be given the right to abortion, to avoid further psychological and physical harm?
And what is the mother of 8 children who can no longer feed any more children because the husband/partner has left?
And what about the woman who doesn't want children and where the anti-baby pill has failed?
I was told that the Bible (especially the Old Testament) condemns abortion. Only, the Bible was written more than 2,000 years ago, when people had little idea of pregnancy, contraception, and things like that, and where children were seen as possessions, cheap labor, and insurance for old age.
What is your opinion on this?
Adoption is better than murder .
 
Apr 25, 2020
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Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as the days that were before the flood they were eating, and marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. 39 and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus did not have a wife, or a girlfriend. Jesus was without sin.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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It is a child but here the health of the mother both emotion and physical is being jeapodized. Most of these girls are suicidal. So yes, I believe abortion should be an option in these instances. Father in this case has no rights to the child because of rape/incest.
Ok, it is a child, we agree. What if the mother delivered the baby and cared for it for a couple of weeks and decided because of mental reasons to murder the child. Would this be ok? Remember, it's a child...there should be no difference in the outlook of the child in the womb and out of the womb. It's a child.
 

TheIndianGirl

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Nov 22, 2019
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You forget the CHILD'S right to live! It has no say over how he/she is conceived. Killing a harmless, defenseless baby is the same as MURDERING A CHILD OR ADULT and should be treated the same!
First, according to Psalm 51:5, a baby is sinful at conception. So, implying that the baby is innocent is misleading. Second, I agree the child should have had a chance to live but this is one of the unfair things in life, just like the mother being raped. I would not consider the mother (who may be as young as 12 or 13 years old) evil if she aborts due to rape/incest. Calling this type of distraight girl a murderer makes a mockery of the word murder, which includes malice. I maintain my views that the girl should be given an option in these instances.
 

TheIndianGirl

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Nov 22, 2019
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Ok, it is a child, we agree. What if the mother delivered the baby and cared for it for a couple of weeks and decided because of mental reasons to murder the child. Would this be ok? Remember, it's a child...there should be no difference in the outlook of the child in the womb and out of the womb. It's a child.
Good, we agree she has mental issues. As a rape/incest victim she definitely had mental issues during and after pregnancy. Does God hold a mentally ill person to the same standard/bar as a sane person when it comes to sin? I do not think the courts do.
 

Camess

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Aug 11, 2020
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First, according to Psalm 51:5, a baby is sinful at conception. So, implying that the baby is innocent is misleading. Second, I agree the child should have had a chance to live but this is one of the unfair things in life, just like the mother being raped. I would not consider the mother (who may be as young as 12 or 13 years old) evil if she aborts due to rape/incest. Calling this type of distraight girl a murderer makes a mockery of the word murder, which includes malice. I maintain my views that the girl should be given an option in these instances.
Then I feel sorry for you. I wouldn't want to be you when Jesus asks for an accounting of your life. A child is a child. Those who have raped others will pay the price for their evil deeds. The CHILD SHOULD NOT!
 

TheIndianGirl

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Nov 22, 2019
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Then I feel sorry for you. I wouldn't want to be you when Jesus asks for an accounting of your life. A child is a child. Those who have raped others will pay the price for their evil deeds. The CHILD SHOULD NOT!
I hope you and your family will not come across a situation where you have to consider abortion.
 

Camess

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Aug 11, 2020
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Neither me nor any of my family would EVER "consider" abortion! It should not EXIST!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I am so sorry you experienced this. No person should have experienced this and live through this type of evil. Many people can empathize with your hatred of men with these examples. You should not worry too much about the abortion you had, or get too upset when people abruptly say that abortion is murder without compassion. They are going off talking points mainly for political reasons.

Even though I disagree with abortion being used as regular birth control since I believe an unborn child is nonetheless a child, and while I believe all abortions probably displease God, I believe and hope God will be understanding where women had abortions for reasons such as yours. People may steal because they are greedy, or because they are trying to feed their family. God looks at the heart.
God does indeed look at the heart and fully understands the human condition. I fully agree with your well articulated post.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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A woman, pregnant (say 7 months), is walking along the sidewalk, and a car driving by, at normal speed, has a tire blow, and the vehicle suddenly veers off of the road and hits the woman slightly, knocking her to the ground on her stomach. In a few days, after some complications, she loses the child (the pregnancy, the child, is aborted through natural processes due to the injury sustained).

Another woman, pregnant (6 weeks) walking up a flight of stairs, loses her balance and slips and falls a few steps. She loses the child (the pregnancy, the child, is aborted through natural means through the uteran opening).

Are these murder? Who has the sin? Who should be jailed?
I believe that you know full well the answers to your own questions. This is serious topic and there is no need for the head games.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Anyone who rates "God's Word" higher than judicial decisions, medical findings and common sense is not only a fool, but in my opinion also a crackpot!
By this post you qualify for foolish crackpot, OK, now a 'guest' fool and crackpot.
 

Subhumanoidal

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Sep 17, 2018
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I agree abortion is not right (except in cases of rape/incest, health of mother). I don't think any girl/woman should be forced to carry her father's baby, etc. Any disagreement on this? My whole point is that the blame of abortion is placed unfairly entirely on the woman.
Placed unfairly on women? "My body, my right". The biggest argument supporting abortion is Women declaring it is Their choice because it is Their body.
Notice that's Women that say that.

I used to believe abortion was ok in certain circumstances but what makes one babies life valuable, and the others disposable? The method of conception determines whether it's acceptable to kill a baby? Either murder is right or wrong.
If a man breaks into someone's house and kills a random person, and another walks in on his wife cheating and kills her, which life holds more value? Which murder is justified? Which one deserves to be ended and discarded? According to your logic the cheating woman was ok to kill because the circumstances reduce the value of the person.
 

rastai

Active member
Aug 15, 2020
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I do think on a basic level abortion is murder. But, I think Christians in general place too much emphasis compared to other forms of murder. In this day and age, starvation is murder, poverty is murder, homelessness is murder. If as Christians we are concerned with abortion then we need to support social programs by our governments. The Lord has made enough for everyone. So for every abortion, I blame the governments who allow poverty, hunger, inequality to persist. Making abortion illegal does nothing to solve the problem. Murder by reason of insanity is usually the case. So the way to solve it is by eliminating poverty and inequality. Once these greater sins are removed, that will be the time for us to make these sins punishable.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Good, we agree she has mental issues. As a rape/incest victim she definitely had mental issues during and after pregnancy. Does God hold a mentally ill person to the same standard/bar as a sane person when it comes to sin? I do not think the courts do.
If it’s not ok to kill a two week old baby, it’s not ok to kill a baby in the womb.
 

rastai

Active member
Aug 15, 2020
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That’s not biblical. The Church should do more independently of the government.
Not so. Government is the best instrument we have to promote general welfare. When people have there basic needs met, you will see all manner of crime, disease and sin decrease. Government is the only means by which we are given to alleviate physical suffering on the levels of all society. I believe the Lord God would like us to use all instruments at our disposal to help our fellow humans avoid temptation and do righteous. When government has the capability to create general welfare, that should be utilized to the fullest. Again, this will reduce all forms of crime and sin. If the Church has the ability to feed the world, then by all means it should. But, it does not. The government, in many cases, does and we should allow it to do so.