Abram/Abraham & Tithing:

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
690
213
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#1
Genesis 14:20 Abram gives the best 10% of the ALL the WAR SPOILS from the Kings he conquered while retrieving his kidnapped nephew Lot, to the Priest & King of Salem, Melchizedek.

Abram gives the the remaining 90% to Sodom & Gomorrah (verse's 21-24). Abram kept NOTHING for himself!

This event takes place 400 plus years before the tithing law, given by Moses to Israel only! Was implemented to support the Levites & Temple.

There is no record in scripture of Abram PAYING TITHE on his personal items. Cattle, oil, wine, corn, wheat, animals etc.

BTW: Under Mosaic law, tithes were only paid by land owners & only on yearly INCREASES. Never on a future pay check. Futhermore, if a man wanted to take cash to the Temple instead of grain or sheep. He would have to add 1/5. I.E pay an additional 20% tax (Lev 27:31).

Every 7th (Sabbath) year (Ex 23:10-11) & 50th (Jubilee) year (Lev 25:10-11), the entire nation of tithers, were completely excluded from paying tithes for those entire years.

I submitt to the promoters of paying 10% of one's weekly income. Under the law you are guilty of robbing God of the 20% tax on cash.

Tithe Origin
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
(NOTE: land, seed, fruit)

31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
(NOTE: If the landowner wanted to bring cash he had to pay an extra 20% fee/tax)

32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(NOTE: One out of 10 animals that passes under the rod were given to the priesthood. Ok, a rod was put up, you walk your animals 1 by 1 under it. At #10 you give one to the Priesthood. If you only had 9 you gave ZERO, if you has 19 animals you gave only 1 = 5%)

33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

34 These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.
(NOTE: This command is given "ONLY to the children of Israel" on Mt Sinai (NOT THE CHURCH).

BTW:
A fisherman paid nothing on his catch, tradesmen, cobblers, who made the shoes for the servants of the field, did not tithe. Carpenters, potters, the women who made the soldiers garments, the servants who worked in the fields for wages, were not required to tithe.

The tithe was exclusively a tax on the produce in the land of Israel & animal INCREASES (Deut 14:22).

Land owners paid three tithes of a tenth each, not one. The Levitical tithe (Num 18:19-20), the festival tithe (Deut14:22-17), and the poor tithe, every 3rd year (Deut 14:28-29). Paid to the tribe of Levi within one of 48 designated cities within Israel (Num 35:7).
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,929
6,186
113
#2
Good post!

Grab some popcorn and wait for the finger-pointers to arrive. ;)
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
690
213
43
#6

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
2,636
511
113

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
110
27
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#8
Genesis 14:20 Abram gives the best 10% of the ALL the WAR SPOILS from the Kings he conquered while retrieving his kidnapped nephew Lot, to the Priest & King of Salem, Melchizedek.
I think you are misreading Genesis 14:29 regarding the comment of tithes.

Gen 14:18-20
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he (Melchizedek) blessed him (Abram), and (Melchizedek) said, "Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he (God) gave him (Abram) tithes of all."

Melchizedek was saying that God had given Abram the wealth/abundance of all the kings.

As you said, the Sodom and Gomorrah had been defeated and lost the substance of the kingdoms to the four kings of five who had defeated them and took the those things which they had.

We know that Abram slaughtered the four kings of five. Thus, by the reference having been given the substance of all, meaning the kings, it tells us that the kings which went to battle along with Sodom and Gomorrah were slaughtered during their battle with the four kings of five.



* See Gen 14:9
*With Chedorlaomer the king of Elam, and with Tidal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with five.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
110
27
28
#9
cont-

So upon Melchizedek saying that God had given Abram the wealth/abundance of all the kings, the king of Sodom said unto Abram, "Give me all the people" and that Abram could keep everything else.

Abram's response by oath was that he wouldn't take a thing, either people or goods, that belonged to the king of Sodom save the cattle which had been eaten or any of his subjects who were Amorite, being the portion of the three Amorites who went with Abram into battle.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
2,636
511
113
#10
cont-

So upon Melchizedek saying that God had given Abram the wealth/abundance of all the kings, the king of Sodom said unto Abram, "Give me all the people" and that Abram could keep everything else.

Abram's response by oath was that he wouldn't take a thing, either people or goods, that belonged to the king of Sodom save the cattle which had been eaten or any of his subjects who were Amorite, being the portion of the three Amorites who went with Abram into battle.
Yes, he is the first I have read that somehow interpreted this as Abraham GIVING the remaining 90% to him.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
12,251
1,114
113
#11
Genesis 14:20 Abram gives the best 10% of the ALL the WAR SPOILS from the Kings he conquered while retrieving his kidnapped nephew Lot, to the Priest & King of Salem, Melchizedek.

Abram gives the the remaining 90% to Sodom & Gomorrah (verse's 21-24). Abram kept NOTHING for himself!
I would offer. In that parable 10, 100, 1000 is used to represent all of what ever is in view. 10 % a good place to start .But if a person heart is not moved the offering of thanksgiving or a turtle dove is sufficient.

Ten in multiples like hundred, thousand, ten thousand, thousand million is used that way in many parables to hide the unseen spirit understanding. Can't buy your way to heaven as some sort of works righteousness..

Genesis 18:31-33 King James Version (KJV) And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Four left . One, Lots wife destroyed . Leaving three . Three denoting the end of a matter.

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Interestingly when speaking of the tower that fell in Luke eighteen appears . The Greek word deka plus eight . Again meaning all in view

Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
690
213
43
#12
Which verse actually says he gave the remaining goods to king of sodom?
Genesis 14:

14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
(NOTE: Abram pursues the Kings that defeated Sodom & took their goods & Lot who lived there)

15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
(Abram catches up & defeats them)

16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
(NOTE: Abram brings back ALL the goods)

17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
(NOTE The Sodom King goes to meet Abram)

18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
(NOTE: Melchizedek comes too)

19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
(NOTE: Abram gives tithes of EVERYTHING he took & brings back)

21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
(NOTE: The Sodom King tells Abram to keep the 90% of the spoils left)

22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
(NOTE: Abram takes/keeps NOTHING!)
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
690
213
43
#13
I think you are misreading Genesis 14:29 regarding the comment of tithes.

Gen 14:18-20
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he (Melchizedek) blessed him (Abram), and (Melchizedek) said, "Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he (God) gave him (Abram) tithes of all."

Melchizedek was saying that God had given Abram the wealth/abundance of all the kings.

As you said, the Sodom and Gomorrah had been defeated and lost the substance of the kingdoms to the four kings of five who had defeated them and took the those things which they had.

We know that Abram slaughtered the four kings of five. Thus, by the reference having been given the substance of all, meaning the kings, it tells us that the kings which went to battle along with Sodom and Gomorrah were slaughtered during their battle with the four kings of five.



* See Gen 14:9
*With Chedorlaomer the king of Elam, and with Tidal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with five.
My post reads:

Genesis 14:20 Abram gives the best 10% of the ALL the WAR SPOILS from the Kings he conquered while retrieving his kidnapped nephew Lot, to the Priest & King of Salem, Melchizedek.

Abram gives the the remaining 90% to Sodom & Gomorrah (verse's 21-24). Abram kept NOTHING for himself!

In short:
Abram gives tithe = 10% of what he took back/war spoils to Melchizedek & the rest = 90% to the King of Sodom.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
110
27
28
#14
My post reads:

Genesis 14:20 Abram gives the best 10% of the ALL the WAR SPOILS from the Kings he conquered while retrieving his kidnapped nephew Lot, to the Priest & King of Salem, Melchizedek.

Abram gives the the remaining 90% to Sodom & Gomorrah (verse's 21-24). Abram kept NOTHING for himself!

In short:
Abram gives tithe = 10% of what he took back/war spoils to Melchizedek & the rest = 90% to the King of Sodom.
That is the way I read your post too.

That is the reason that I stated that in my opinion you are misreading the passage.

First, the king of Sodom along with four other kings went to battle with Chedorlaomer and the kings that were with him.
And there went out the king of Sodom, and the king of Gomorrah, and the king of Admah, and the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar;) Gen 14:8​
The passage continues, as I interpret it, that once the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah engaged the four kings of five, the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah broke off from the other three kings with them and fled and fell there, while those who remained fled to the mountains.
Since the four kings of five had initiated the aggression, I would be inclined to think that those who remained and fled were the three other kings with S & G. In such, Chedorlaomer would have pursued and destroyed those three along with their armies. Thus as with S & G, Chedorlaomer would have been in possession of all the victuals and goods of the five kings who opposed him and the kings with him.

So when Abram slaughtered Chedorlaomer and the kings with him, he obtained not only the victuals and goods that they had obtained but those of Chedorlaomer and those kings with him. Which as Melchizedek said in verse 20, God had blessed Abram with the victuals and goods of all the kings.