Abstract Salvation versus Actual Salvation

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Nov 26, 2011
[FONT=&quot]Abstract Salvation versus Actual Salvation

[FONT=&quot]Saved in Sin versus Saved From Sin


[FONT=&quot]One of the deadly errors that many hold today is that salvation is viewed in an abstract sense.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]It is taught within the Church System that one can be saved and yet on bondage to sin at the same time. It is taught within the Church System that one can remain in rebellion to God and be reconciled to God at the very same time.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]In salvation what is a sinner actually saved from? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]It is clearly taught in Scripture that Jesus Christ came to redeem us from all iniquity as well as to purify unto Himself a peculiar people who would be zealous of doing right.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Tit 2:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In other words, Jesus came to save His people from their sins.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mat 1:21[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]There are two aspects to this, firstly Jesus offered Himself as a propitiatory sacrifice on our behalf that our previous sins be remitted and purged.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 3:25[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Whom God hath set forth [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to be[/FONT][FONT=&quot] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2Pe 1:9[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is equivalent to having one's criminal record expunged by God and thus it allows the former sinner to serve God acceptably with a clear conscience.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Heb 9:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The second aspect of salvation is being set free from the actual bondage of sin.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This occurs through the process of repentance . When we die with Christ, we crucify our old man with the passions and desires that we no longer serve sin, for he that dies in this way is set free from sin. This is because we are raised up by the same power that raised Jesus from the dead.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gal 5:24[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:3[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in the likeness[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]his[/FONT][FONT=&quot] resurrection: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]him,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For he that is dead is freed from sin. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Col 2:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Col 2:12[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]him[/FONT][FONT=&quot] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Col 2:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This quickening with Him(Col 2:13) is the power of God's grace and is referred to as such in Eph 2:5.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Eph 2:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Having been set free we are to no longer yield to the flesh but rather we crucify the deeds of the flesh through the power of the Spirit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 8:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 8:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In doing this we shall live as we walk after the Spirit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of that sets one free from the wretched state he describes in Romans 7.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 8:2[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The sin has stopped because we suffer in the flesh just as Christ did and we rule over sin in the same manner that Jesus Christ did.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gal 5:24[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1Pe 4:2[/FONT][FONT=&quot] That he no longer should live the rest of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]his[/FONT][FONT=&quot] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:12[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Neither yield ye your members [/FONT][FONT=&quot]as[/FONT][FONT=&quot] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [/FONT][FONT=&quot]as[/FONT][FONT=&quot] instruments of righteousness unto God. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Those who continue to yield their body to sin are still in bondage to sin, they are thus the servants of sin and that road will lead to death.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]We who have been set free have obeyed from our heart the teachings of Jesus Christ. We have repented, denied ourselves, picked up our crosses and followed Him. We have died with Christ.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:17[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 6:18[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mat 16:24[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If any[/FONT][FONT=&quot]man[/FONT][FONT=&quot]will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mat 16:25[/FONT][FONT=&quot]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]No longer are we servants of sin for we have truly been set free.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Joh 8:34[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Jesus answered them, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Joh 8:35[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]but[/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Son abideth ever.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Joh 8:36[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]We don't yield to sin in the way James describes.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jas 1:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jas 1:15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Those lusts that can entice and draw us away we keep crucified. It is no longer us who live but Christ that lives in us as we live by faith.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gal 2:20[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

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[FONT=&quot]Paul taught that we are to flee idolatry by bearing temptation and choosing the way of escape.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Co 10:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot] There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Co 10:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. [/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Salvation is an actual present condition of walking in the light having been set free from the bondage of sin and having been cleansed from all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1Jn 1:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Those who are born of God cannot sin because of the seed within. This means that with the root pure defiled fruit will not be produced.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1Jn 3:9[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This does not mean we do not make mistakes in judgment, perhaps being overzealous at times, or erring to a faulty understanding etc. What it does mean is that the heart is clean and thus no action we do is rooted in any sort of guile. All the sin that is rooted in the willful rebellion to God has ceased. This is being born again, this is salvation.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The above verse does not preclude the ability to rebel or fall away, it simply means that when we are born of God we cannot sin casting out the seed implanted within.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]If one is born of God the flesh is subdued through the Spirit and the wicked one cannot touch you.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1Jn 5:18[/FONT][FONT=&quot] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]These things are rejected in modern Christianity by the vast majority because another gospel is preached. A gospel which teaches salvation as merely a form of wrath protection. A salvation which is totally abstract based on a provision that one simply trusts in and believes to be true. The state of the soul has been totally disconnected from the deeds of the body, thus it is taught that a good tree can bear evil fruit. The modern gospel message is more closely aligned with gnostic philosophy than it is to the Bible and I encourage people to dig deep into the scriptures and see if these things are true.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You can truly be set free from sin and made pure in Jesus Christ. Not in position, not in a mere legal sense, but in reality.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jesus said to “strive” to enter in at the strait gate and that many would try but only a few would be able to.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Luk 13:23[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Luk 13:24[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Only a few are going to be saved, please make every effort to be one of those few.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]We are saved by grace through faith and not of anything that we can do apart from God. God has called us to repentance, to die with Christ, to forsake our sin and follow Him. This is the road to life and it is a gift that God has freely provided, a gift we don’t deserve. Put it to use and live.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


Senior Member
Jul 17, 2010
interesting subject/ topic
Nov 26, 2011
The Ministry of Reconciliation
Modern Christianity teaches that God has to be reconciled to man rather than man has to be reconciled to God. This is why Jesus death on the cross is presented as a cloak for ongoing rebellion rather than a cleansing of past rebellion from which you go and sin no more.
Mar 14, 2011
A licentious gospel is nothing new, it was taught in the NT times. People think this is all new when it is not.

Not to mention, It is no more dangerous than the legalistic doctrine which preaches one must earn salvation by their deeds, both lead straight to hell
Jul 12, 2012
In other words, Jesus came to save His people from their sins.
And from each other's sins.
When you truly forgive someone, and carry that burden, you have actually been saved from that person's sin, because it no longer rules over your heart as a vengeful grudge.

"Repent (turn away from SIN) for the kingdom of Elohim is at hand (here now for the taking)"
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Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
I agree with most of what you have posted.

Why not post something edifying for those poor discouraged folks who are not walking in actual perfection and are wondering if they have been born again at all?

I know when I first realized I was saved by God I thought I could no longer be tempted or react the way I used to. When that was not the case I didn't understand. I thought all that junk was in the past. I suppose the best way to put it is I had been carrying all my junk for so long that I kept picking it back up after I had given it to the Lord. Not all of it, of course. Just my "favorites".

I thought to myself "thanks Lord, I've got it from here". But that is not the case, it took me awhile to find out. The same dependance we have put on the Lord for our forgiveness is the same dependance we must put on Him in order to walk after Him. Because truly, without Him we can do nothing.

I hope this helps someone,

God Bless You