All We Like Sheep...for the Slaughter.
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M
Hi cross note I was thinking about this recently. I think it helps to read it
in conjunction with the rest of the passage.
Romans 8:5-11 NKJV
[5] For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of
the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and
peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject
to the law of God, nor indeed can be. [8] So then, those who are in the flesh
cannot please God. [9] But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed
the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of
Christ, he is not His. [10] And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because
of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [11] But if the Spirit
of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ
from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit
who dwells in you.
People can sometimes make the mistake of preaching the "come to Jesus message
and all will be well". But the bible says to count the cost and there is a cost, learning to
put aside those fleshy selfish attitudes and putting on the new man. Fortunately God is
patient and a good teacher.
My own experience is that in many respects the difficulties increase.
It certainly did for the early Christians who were fed to the lions but through
their dogged determination and faith, the Christian message spread like
wildfire through out the earth.
I think in many respects a Christian needs to understand that they are now in the
sight lines of the enemy. That is the reason we are to put on the full armour of God.
There is also the testing of our faith which leads to spiritual maturity.
I also have a theory that the bigger the test the bigger the blessing and the bigger the
work God has set aside for us to do. Just look at the testing of the great people of the bible.
The following verses help also
Romans 5:3-5 AMP
[3] Moreover let us also be full of joy now! let us exult and triumph in our troubles and rejoice
in our sufferings, knowing that pressure and affliction and hardship produce patient and
unswerving endurance. [4] And endurance (fortitude) develops maturity of character
(approved faith and tried integrity). And character of this sort produces the habit of
joyful and confident hope of eternal salvation. [5] Such hope never disappoints or deludes
or shames us, for God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who
has been given to us.
Ps I always think of Job when questions like this arise and I wonder how I
would have dealt with all that. An interesting thing I noticed about Job. The
following verse:
Job 19:23-26 NKJV
[23] "Oh, that my words were written! Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
[24] That they were engraved on a rock With an iron pen and lead, forever!
[25] For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the
earth; [26] And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God,
Well Job certainly got his wish, even in such dire adversity God answered his prayer.
Job's story is written in the bible for all to see translated into many languages!
Test the Lord and see that He is good, even in adversity.
God bless
x
in conjunction with the rest of the passage.
Romans 8:5-11 NKJV
[5] For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of
the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and
peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject
to the law of God, nor indeed can be. [8] So then, those who are in the flesh
cannot please God. [9] But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed
the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of
Christ, he is not His. [10] And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because
of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [11] But if the Spirit
of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ
from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit
who dwells in you.
People can sometimes make the mistake of preaching the "come to Jesus message
and all will be well". But the bible says to count the cost and there is a cost, learning to
put aside those fleshy selfish attitudes and putting on the new man. Fortunately God is
patient and a good teacher.
My own experience is that in many respects the difficulties increase.
It certainly did for the early Christians who were fed to the lions but through
their dogged determination and faith, the Christian message spread like
wildfire through out the earth.
I think in many respects a Christian needs to understand that they are now in the
sight lines of the enemy. That is the reason we are to put on the full armour of God.
There is also the testing of our faith which leads to spiritual maturity.
I also have a theory that the bigger the test the bigger the blessing and the bigger the
work God has set aside for us to do. Just look at the testing of the great people of the bible.
The following verses help also
Romans 5:3-5 AMP
[3] Moreover let us also be full of joy now! let us exult and triumph in our troubles and rejoice
in our sufferings, knowing that pressure and affliction and hardship produce patient and
unswerving endurance. [4] And endurance (fortitude) develops maturity of character
(approved faith and tried integrity). And character of this sort produces the habit of
joyful and confident hope of eternal salvation. [5] Such hope never disappoints or deludes
or shames us, for God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who
has been given to us.
Ps I always think of Job when questions like this arise and I wonder how I
would have dealt with all that. An interesting thing I noticed about Job. The
following verse:
Job 19:23-26 NKJV
[23] "Oh, that my words were written! Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
[24] That they were engraved on a rock With an iron pen and lead, forever!
[25] For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the
earth; [26] And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God,
Well Job certainly got his wish, even in such dire adversity God answered his prayer.
Job's story is written in the bible for all to see translated into many languages!
Test the Lord and see that He is good, even in adversity.
God bless
x
P
it's a quotation of Ps 44:22.
in the psalm God's people are suffering. the psalmist says in v.9 God has rejected them,
but he also says this:
You are my King, O God;
Command victories for Jacob. Through You we will push back our adversaries;
Through Your name we will trample down those who rise up against us.
For I will not trust in my bow,
Nor will my sword save me.
But You have saved us from our adversaries,
And You have put to shame those who hate us.
In God we have boasted all day long,
And we will give thanks to Your name forever. (v 4-8)
fidelity to God has a cost? and a Remedy
in the psalm God's people are suffering. the psalmist says in v.9 God has rejected them,
but he also says this:
You are my King, O God;
Command victories for Jacob. Through You we will push back our adversaries;
Through Your name we will trample down those who rise up against us.
For I will not trust in my bow,
Nor will my sword save me.
But You have saved us from our adversaries,
And You have put to shame those who hate us.
In God we have boasted all day long,
And we will give thanks to Your name forever. (v 4-8)
fidelity to God has a cost? and a Remedy
M
I forgot to answer the original question I'm getting old, I get distracted!
I believe we need to be active but in the right way. Active in the spiritual battle,
active in putting on the armour of God. (Incidentally ages ago I remember
someone preaching on the armour of God and showing that it was literally
God's armour! Can't remember the full message though).
Active in our faith active in prayer etc. Active in standing firm etc.
I'm getting old, I get distracted!I believe we need to be active but in the right way. Active in the spiritual battle,
active in putting on the armour of God. (Incidentally ages ago I remember
someone preaching on the armour of God and showing that it was literally
God's armour! Can't remember the full message though).
Active in our faith active in prayer etc. Active in standing firm etc.
Interesting responses. I'll just try to watch this thread 'passively' interjecting a question here and there like a good sheep
I haven't heard much on the 'killed all the day long' part or 'led to the slaughter'. Rather not think about it?...
Romans 8:36 (KJV) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
I haven't heard much on the 'killed all the day long' part or 'led to the slaughter'. Rather not think about it?...
Romans 8:36 (KJV) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Interesting responses. I'll just try to watch this thread 'passively' interjecting a question here and there like a good sheep
I haven't heard much on the 'killed all the day long' part or 'led to the slaughter'. Rather not think about it?...
Romans 8:36 (KJV) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
I haven't heard much on the 'killed all the day long' part or 'led to the slaughter'. Rather not think about it?...
Romans 8:36 (KJV) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
I really know what "take up our cross means". Most of you know that I have some serious struggles now to live 24/7 with the problems my husband is going through. To take up my cross means that I must humbly accept this time as an appointed season in my life. I surrender and not whimper. I must "give thanks for everything" as it comes. As it even worsens.
I must take up the cross, and not fight with it, or try to throw it down in anger. I must die to what my self desires (to run from it). I must die to complaining. It is the slaughter of my own nature and the beginnings of developing the fruits of His - endurance, patience, long suffering, and peace in the midst of turmoil. It is the slaughter of my own flesh and being conformed to His image.
At least for me. For someone else it might be really being persecuted for teaching the Word. To everyone the cross is different. But it must be "taken up".
E
Amen, it is dieing to self. it is giving up our personal desires and pleasures, and putting the needs and desires of everyone else first.
This does not mean we do not have needs or desires. it just means we put those needs and desires in the hands of God, knowing if he wills us to have those thing, we will get them, if we do not get them, we trust God had a reason.
This does not mean we do not have needs or desires. it just means we put those needs and desires in the hands of God, knowing if he wills us to have those thing, we will get them, if we do not get them, we trust God had a reason.
G
In the historical background of this passage, Nero was persecuting Christians day and night. Nero had Paul killed 10 years after he penned these verses.............interesting to note, Nero died 2 weeks after Pauls death.
I believe this historical back ground plays a role in the interpretation of these passages.Paul addresses 5 challenges that the believer may face in this new Christian life:
1.vs 31~~The challenge of detractors(opposition to grace).
2.vs 32~~the challenge of fortiori blessings.(if He gave us His best[his Son] He can and will give any lesser blessings)
3.vs 33-34~~The challenge of attitude towards Brothers.(every time we judge another brother, we judge Gods plan for them.)
4.vs 35-37~~the challenge of undeserved suffering and martyrdom.(The supreme victory for the believer who handles this rightly)
5.vs 38-39~~The challenge of eternal security.(the believer will not execute the challenges of the Christian way of life without this truth.)
Sorry to bring eternal security into this, it is just hard not to. Its why these forums constantly have some type of eternal security thread. After salvation, eternal security is of the utmost importance. We will NOT live the Christian way of life with out this truth.look at the challenges Paul gives us above.
without eternal security......
1. we will be detractors of Grace.
2. we will be unsure of lesser blessings because we are unsure of His great blessing(His righteousness)
3. we will judge other brothers.
4. we will die in fear, rather than grace.
5. we will live under conditions rather than security.
I believe this historical back ground plays a role in the interpretation of these passages.Paul addresses 5 challenges that the believer may face in this new Christian life:
1.vs 31~~The challenge of detractors(opposition to grace).
2.vs 32~~the challenge of fortiori blessings.(if He gave us His best[his Son] He can and will give any lesser blessings)
3.vs 33-34~~The challenge of attitude towards Brothers.(every time we judge another brother, we judge Gods plan for them.)
4.vs 35-37~~the challenge of undeserved suffering and martyrdom.(The supreme victory for the believer who handles this rightly)
5.vs 38-39~~The challenge of eternal security.(the believer will not execute the challenges of the Christian way of life without this truth.)
Sorry to bring eternal security into this, it is just hard not to. Its why these forums constantly have some type of eternal security thread. After salvation, eternal security is of the utmost importance. We will NOT live the Christian way of life with out this truth.look at the challenges Paul gives us above.
without eternal security......
1. we will be detractors of Grace.
2. we will be unsure of lesser blessings because we are unsure of His great blessing(His righteousness)
3. we will judge other brothers.
4. we will die in fear, rather than grace.
5. we will live under conditions rather than security.
Psalm 44:22
Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.= "daily sacrifice" (In Christ we die daily)
Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.= "daily sacrifice" (In Christ we die daily)
Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.