American and Religion

[pogrud]

Before I start, I am not an American and have encountered what I quote here from various books and other sources. I've quoted sources where I've remembered. If I've missed something out, I apologise.

I had always understood that the founding fathers of the USA had different religious beliefs, they however all believed in a secular state. Hence the USA was founded as such, however, judging by what I've seen of American politics, I've seen little evidence of this in action.

From a treaty with Tripoli by George Washington and John Adams:

As the Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the states never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever produce an interruption of harmony existing between the two countries.
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There is also a separation of church and state from the first amendment I believe?

England is not secular, the Church of England holds a special constitutional position. In contrast to America, England appears extremely secular. According to the 2001 census, 72% of people are Christian (although less than half of the UK believe in a God!). According to a Christian Research Group's findings only 6% of the country attend church on Sunday, with a significant number of these being immigrants (esp. Polish).

To contrast these statistics with the USA: ~77% of the country class themselves as Christian (according to the CIA factbook), from a variety of sources (CBS, Newsweek and Harris Poll) 73%-94% believe in a God. A Gullup Poll suggest 43% of Americans regularly attend church.

So my questions are:

Has America moved away from it's secular roots? What was the cause of this?

Why is a supposedly secular country significant 'more religious' that a Christian one?

 

[Truth4All]

It's no coincident that the first amendment was the very first item enumerated in the bill of rights. It came about to address the injustices imposed by King George. Specifically the suppression of free speech, limits placed on the assembly of individuals, prohibition of all non-state sponsored religions (i.e. the Church of England), and the lack of citizen representation in the legislature. The first amendment did in fact create a secular form of government, but as is evidenced by the existence of the House chaplain (established back in the Continental Congress) and the traditional opening prayer at the start of every Congressional session, the intent was NOT to force legislators to check their religious beliefs at the door. It's interesting to note that toward the end of the 20th century the opening prayers in Congress were no longer exclusively Christian, a testament to the fact that Christianity has no greater privileges than any other religion.

The notion of "separation of church and state" is not addressed in the Constitution at all. Rather, the concept was introduced through various Supreme Court challenges to the establishment clause over the years. The purpose of these cases was to drive out all religious thought from the government, an idea that is patently absurd. You may be able to ban all religious symbols from government buildings but you can never separate a person from his or her belief system.

 

[thefightinglamb]

I would like to suggest TS Elliot's "Religion and Culture"....I don't know why I thought it was interesting...


Kierkegard, a Christian, also brings up interesting points on this, from my college years...I remember Professor Powell speaking about how Kierkegard thought it was almost impossible to be Christian in his nation because everyone assumed they were Christian--even the government--and it took away from one's ability to actually commit and become a Christian...

So also think about how Christianity is different when it is outlawed, inlawed and unlawed...When it is outlawed, the only Christians that survive our die hard and they have to perservere...when it is inlawed as Kierkegard and TS Elliot suggest (though Elliot to a large extant thought it was a good thing that allowed for a Christian structure and backbone to one's understanding--more complicated than this but read the book) then you have everyone governedby the Christian principles that our 'moral' and thus are stressed while the more difficult commands of Jesus to leave societies (mankinds) "goals and outlook" becomes blurred forcing people to be confused if they really are Christian or not because they are governed by a more or less (I would say strongly less with Kierkegard) 'Christian' worldview...In America we have Christianity unlawed, which means it really has no place in our government and yet it pervades it in strange ways...because you can't escape that statement that "The religion of a people bcomes the law of the land" like it or not...anyway, Christianity unlawed forces it also to sprout shoots everywhere and it is not stable 'a church of america' as you have 'a church of england', but thousands (probably more like 100 of thousands) of children--mostly illegitamate I would say--just for the sake of arguing and truthfully...

So England can claim to be Christian by law in a certain stance...but America throws religion and a person's own soul into his or her own hands, forcing him to find or be given through grace the destiny of his/her soul--much more existentialist...

So we go to church to save our souls because we know that the government will make no laws that give our souls bread (provides for the backbone or framework for how to reach God and see life), while Engish people probably (hypothosizing) see their very laws as being somewhat Christian, so how can they escape their own laws to become Christian? It is somewhat of a netting egnigma and paradox over there I would think to become a Christian...

God bless the King Jesus Christ

tony