And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple
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The instruction for Noah is specifically say for Noah
Genesis
7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
The instruction to take the cross do not say only for Jew
Genesis
7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
The instruction to take the cross do not say only for Jew
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When Jesus say john 3:16 He was in Israel, I assumed the listener are Jews and you believe that vase also applicable for you and I agree, we have to believe to be save.
When Jesus say mat 10 also in Israel I believe to the same listener and you believe only applicable for people before Jesus die on the cross.
I am not agree.
The cross mean suffer for Jesus. If I steal, I go to jail, not the cross.
It happen to a lot of Christian in every generation after Jesus die.
Say if I am among radical Muslim, they ask me to deny Jesus or die, and I deny Jesus, do Jesus not deny me in from of His Father because it happen after Jesus die on the cross?
This what I believe my friend. If I want Jesus not deny me in fron of His Dad. In that situation, I have to take the cross and killed by Muslim.
So I believe matt 10 about take the cross is aplicable for us.
When Jesus say mat 10 also in Israel I believe to the same listener and you believe only applicable for people before Jesus die on the cross.
I am not agree.
The cross mean suffer for Jesus. If I steal, I go to jail, not the cross.
It happen to a lot of Christian in every generation after Jesus die.
Say if I am among radical Muslim, they ask me to deny Jesus or die, and I deny Jesus, do Jesus not deny me in from of His Father because it happen after Jesus die on the cross?
This what I believe my friend. If I want Jesus not deny me in fron of His Dad. In that situation, I have to take the cross and killed by Muslim.
So I believe matt 10 about take the cross is aplicable for us.
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I wanna say this in such a way that doesn't offend. But, what you are saying is putting one's "burdens, or cross" ON Jesus' cross! As in "languishing" in God's grace in Jesus' sacrifice for you. As one "heals up", and gains strength so to speak, and "getting your shirt together!"
One is NEVER to LEAVE it there!
2 Thessalonians 2
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
John 15
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for WITHOUT Me(?) Ye can Do NOTHING.
This INCLUDES the "picking up your (own) cross", and following Jesus!
This can be explained in a coupla different ways. Depending on ones' life's experiences, I suppose.
In a military sense? Accepting Christ is like "enlisting" in the armed forces.
First? There's boot camp. That gets one physically, and mentally (Spiritually) prepared for defense, as well as offense (defending and contending for the faith).
All this while, in boot camp, one is being constantly and continually "monitored" (if you will). Evaluated, and Re-evaluated, in the "assessing", of one's further "Military Occupational Service", (MOS, in the Army). In learning how to pick up one's cross.
After boot camp? One goes on to more intensive training, and specilization. Or, Advanced Individual Training, (AIT, in the Army). Or? Where you are taking yourself, WITH your OWN cross!
Then there's a more Arminain explanation.
Where it is more like "going to high school." Where one more or less picks out one's own path, as one "likes", and resists what one doesn't like. Same same for college.
One is NEVER to LEAVE it there!
2 Thessalonians 2
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
John 15
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for WITHOUT Me(?) Ye can Do NOTHING.
This INCLUDES the "picking up your (own) cross", and following Jesus!
This can be explained in a coupla different ways. Depending on ones' life's experiences, I suppose.
In a military sense? Accepting Christ is like "enlisting" in the armed forces.
First? There's boot camp. That gets one physically, and mentally (Spiritually) prepared for defense, as well as offense (defending and contending for the faith).
All this while, in boot camp, one is being constantly and continually "monitored" (if you will). Evaluated, and Re-evaluated, in the "assessing", of one's further "Military Occupational Service", (MOS, in the Army). In learning how to pick up one's cross.
After boot camp? One goes on to more intensive training, and specilization. Or, Advanced Individual Training, (AIT, in the Army). Or? Where you are taking yourself, WITH your OWN cross!
Then there's a more Arminain explanation.
Where it is more like "going to high school." Where one more or less picks out one's own path, as one "likes", and resists what one doesn't like. Same same for college.
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And their faith prove by their action.
God ask Noah to build an ark, because of his faith he did build an ark
God asked abraham to leave his land go to the pro ice land, and because of his faith he did.
God ask christian to take the cross and because of their faith, a lot of Christian in all generations die for Him.
Salvation by faith not by work, but faith that save produce work
See the difference between by and produce
Martin Luther say
Martin Luther
“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.”
― Martin Luther
tags: christianity, faith, inspirational, religion
God ask Noah to build an ark, because of his faith he did build an ark
God asked abraham to leave his land go to the pro ice land, and because of his faith he did.
God ask christian to take the cross and because of their faith, a lot of Christian in all generations die for Him.
Salvation by faith not by work, but faith that save produce work
See the difference between by and produce
Martin Luther say
Martin Luther
“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.”
― Martin Luther
tags: christianity, faith, inspirational, religion
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E
You have it backwards in all ways
Abraham and noah was saved the moment they had faith
The result of their faith is they worked
A person today is saved the moment they have faith
The result of their faith is they pick up the cross
The work was results of being saved, Not a prerequisite or requirment to be saved.
Abraham and noah was saved the moment they had faith
The result of their faith is they worked
A person today is saved the moment they have faith
The result of their faith is they pick up the cross
The work was results of being saved, Not a prerequisite or requirment to be saved.
John 3:16 is like one of the first verse we memorized out of Sunday School and I do understand the immense popularity of that verse and I think the message of that verse is indeed wonderful.
But if you adopt a dispensational view of the Bible, John 3:16 is actually part of the Old Covenant. When John 3:16 tells us that we need to believe in Jesus to have eternal life, the next question is believe what about Jesus? You have to understand that verse in the context of John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
But according to Paul, in the current Gospel of Grace, you need to believe in the following thing about Jesus, 1 Cor 15:4
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the thirdday according to the Scriptures
Thus when Jesus said those words in John, that DBR have not happened. What were the Jews supposed to believe in Jesus then? That he is the promised Messiah, the Son of God. That is the Gospel of the Kingdom.
But now, under the Gospel of Grace, we don't tell unbelievers to believe in that, we now follow Paul's instructions to teach them that the good news is to believe in the DBR of Jesus.
TLDR version: As wonderful as John 3:16 is, strictly speaking, it is as OT as the rest of the OT. When we read it now, we are reading in the context of what we learn from Paul. But the Jewish listeners during the 4 Gospels viewed it very differently from us.
But if you adopt a dispensational view of the Bible, John 3:16 is actually part of the Old Covenant. When John 3:16 tells us that we need to believe in Jesus to have eternal life, the next question is believe what about Jesus? You have to understand that verse in the context of John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
But according to Paul, in the current Gospel of Grace, you need to believe in the following thing about Jesus, 1 Cor 15:4
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the thirdday according to the Scriptures
Thus when Jesus said those words in John, that DBR have not happened. What were the Jews supposed to believe in Jesus then? That he is the promised Messiah, the Son of God. That is the Gospel of the Kingdom.
But now, under the Gospel of Grace, we don't tell unbelievers to believe in that, we now follow Paul's instructions to teach them that the good news is to believe in the DBR of Jesus.
TLDR version: As wonderful as John 3:16 is, strictly speaking, it is as OT as the rest of the OT. When we read it now, we are reading in the context of what we learn from Paul. But the Jewish listeners during the 4 Gospels viewed it very differently from us.
I will classify this kind of thinking as "Red letter bible" thinking. I have met quite a few Christians who grew up in churches that preached almost exclusively from the 4 Gospels, and perhaps you also came from such a church.
When they do refer to Paul's epistles they always interpret them in the light of what Jesus said in the 4 Gospels. In most of their bibles, all of Jesus's words are in red, so somehow that red color takes on special significance.
It is clear why Paul would not preach about Christians needing to deny themselves and bear the cross. Paul was preaching the Gospel of grace, where Jesus finished ALL the works required for salvation on our behalf. Our role is simply to believe in his finished work, accept it, and renew our minds every day to that truth.
Take for example the ministry of reconciliation that Paul preached in 2 Cor 5.
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one [b]according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ [c]according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, [d]he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and [e]He has [f]committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Notice that Paul said "we recognize no one [b]according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ [c]according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer."
Jesus, in the 4 Gospels, was in the flesh, but with the new dispensation of grace, we "know him in this way no longer".
Yes, I agree with you that Paul was indeed martyred for Jesus but in my opinion, he would be horrified if he realized that you are now using this as a "criteria to see whether Jesus would accept or deny us in heaven".
For me, I don't really see that as a requirement for salvation. I would like to think that, as long as I keep renewing my mind to how much God loves me, I hope to eventually reach a stage like him when he said to his fellow believers in Philippians 1
23 [e]For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 24 Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith,
Paul has reached a stage when he believed in his heart that death is really a blessing for him, but he stayed alive because the church needed him. I believe when he may have actually preach the gospel of grace to the one who was suppose to execute him, because he no longer have any fear of death.
Now that is the stage I am aiming towards.
When they do refer to Paul's epistles they always interpret them in the light of what Jesus said in the 4 Gospels. In most of their bibles, all of Jesus's words are in red, so somehow that red color takes on special significance.
It is clear why Paul would not preach about Christians needing to deny themselves and bear the cross. Paul was preaching the Gospel of grace, where Jesus finished ALL the works required for salvation on our behalf. Our role is simply to believe in his finished work, accept it, and renew our minds every day to that truth.
Take for example the ministry of reconciliation that Paul preached in 2 Cor 5.
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one [b]according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ [c]according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, [d]he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and [e]He has [f]committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Notice that Paul said "we recognize no one [b]according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ [c]according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer."
Jesus, in the 4 Gospels, was in the flesh, but with the new dispensation of grace, we "know him in this way no longer".
Yes, I agree with you that Paul was indeed martyred for Jesus but in my opinion, he would be horrified if he realized that you are now using this as a "criteria to see whether Jesus would accept or deny us in heaven".
For me, I don't really see that as a requirement for salvation. I would like to think that, as long as I keep renewing my mind to how much God loves me, I hope to eventually reach a stage like him when he said to his fellow believers in Philippians 1
23 [e]For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 24 Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith,
Paul has reached a stage when he believed in his heart that death is really a blessing for him, but he stayed alive because the church needed him. I believe when he may have actually preach the gospel of grace to the one who was suppose to execute him, because he no longer have any fear of death.
Now that is the stage I am aiming towards.