Anger and Name Calling

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MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#1
I am copying this from another thread because I believe that an important principle needs to be addressed:

Originally Posted by Muzungu256

interesting.......... isaiah 66:17 looks like the Lord coming back u see......... and eating swine is still a sin!!!!!!!!
no church ever teaches this though.... i wonder what it means u see. it doesnt matter, i dont eat swine anyway.

IMO Circumcision was a sign of being under God's covenant with Abraham. But men under that covenant did not walk around with their circumcision showing. Besides this the women had no sign of the covenant.

Ge 9:3-4
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat
KJV

1 Ti 4:4
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
KJV


Between these we find Leviticus chapter 11. separating the clean from the unclean.

I believe that the purpose of the Law of Moses was to persuade people, especially Israel, that they could not be right with God by their own efforts.

I believe that the purpose of Lev chapter 11 was to give the nation of Israel an outward sign of the Mosaic covenant.

I believe that the outward sign of the new covenant (Jer 31:31-34) is:

Jn 13:35
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
KJV

I believe that the anger and ugliness that we see on the forum helps us distinguish who among us takes God's word to heart.

If we relate to one another in obedience to the precepts that Jesus taught; that IMO is of far more importance than doctrinal correctness.

That is NOT intended to suggest that sound doctrine is unimportant.

It does mean that unsound doctrine is NOT an excuse for treating others unkindly.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#2
For clarification:

This thread is not intentionally aiming at anyone nor was the original post.

When the outward sign of the new covenant came up it just seemed like a principle worthy of its own thread.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
113
#3
Unsound doctrine is not an excuse for treating others unkindly, but people will keep doing it anyway. "Insult as debate tactic" is just too easy to resist.

Also "we're on the internet so I can say anything I want and I don't have to deal with consequences" makes it a whole lot easier. If all these conversations were happening in a meeting room they wouldn't get nearly as insulting.



It's easier to be a jerk to words on a screen than it is to be a jerk to a person.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
0
#4
marc u are jewish can u tell me if isaiah 66:17 is about the end? it looks like it u see.
so why does it still condemn eating swine???

also is this a jab at me for teaching unsound doctrine cuz i wasnt teacihng anyone or anything, i was just asking a question if thats about the second coming u see..... and it looks like it still forbids eating swine at the end......
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#5
Unsound doctrine is not an excuse for treating others unkindly, but people will keep doing it anyway. "Insult as debate tactic" is just too easy to resist.

Also "we're on the internet so I can say anything I want and I don't have to deal with consequences" makes it a whole lot easier. If all these conversations were happening in a meeting room they wouldn't get nearly as insulting.



It's easier to be a jerk to words on a screen than it is to be a jerk to a person.


You are of course correct. But the Lord has indeed said: "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

If we do not display the love we are supposed to be recognized by, How are we to be recognized by the world?; and what happens to the credibility of our witness?
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#6
Galatians 5:[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. [SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, [SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#7
marc u are jewish can u tell me if isaiah 66:17 is about the end? it looks like it u see.
so why does it still condemn eating swine???
Isaiah 66:[SUP]15 [/SUP]For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [SUP]17 [/SUP]They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

also is this a jab at me for teaching unsound doctrine cuz i wasnt teacihng anyone or anything, i was just asking a question if thats about the second coming u see..... and it looks like it still forbids eating swine at the end......
No. If you read that bold portion of the scripture, God is prophesying of an unwholesome religious practice that these sinners will be doing in the future in "sanctifying themselves" behind a tree by eating swine and the abomination and the mouse. Sounds like eating raw flesh as is.

Yuck. Barf.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#8
marc u are jewish can u tell me if isaiah 66:17 is about the end? it looks like it u see.
so why does it still condemn eating swine???

also is this a jab at me for teaching unsound doctrine cuz i wasnt teacihng anyone or anything, i was just asking a question if thats about the second coming u see..... and it looks like it still forbids eating swine at the end......

First: I was definitely not aiming at you! I mentioned the sign of the new covenant and my thoughts turned to the lack of love so prevalent on the forum. I have definitely NOT seen that in you.

In Isaiah 66:17, the tree is a symbol of idolatry. The purifications are symbolic of of self righteousness; and the eating of that which is unclean (swine and mice) is symbolic what God thinks of outward obedience without true love of both God and our fellow man.

Jesus said Mt 22:37-39
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (Dt 6:4)
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Lv 19:17-18)
KJV
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#9
Mark Chapter 7


15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.




to not eat swine WAS a dietary LAW specifically given to the jews

not the same as a commandment from God in the NT today...


to jews or gentiles


you can lump it with not trimming your beard
or keeping the sabbath
or circumcision
or sacrificing
or stoning
or wearing wool and linen together
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#10
Thanks for the reminder, Marc! We would do well to remember and practice this principle: when disagreeing, criticizing, analyzing, or doing anything else that could be perceived as negative, ensure that you are addressing the position and not the person. Only when you have something to say that is intended and unambiguously worded positively, you may address the person, but it is often better to address the position anyway.

On the receiving end, even with this principle in place, some people are unable to distinguish between, "Your reasoning is unsound" and "You're an idiot". Unless someone actually writes, "You're an idiot" (or something similar), it's best to assume that they are addressing your position rather than you personally.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#11
Well this thread is definitely a headscratcher. I agree with Muzungu256, and can't see how his comment has anything at all to do with treating others unkindly, or to differentiate between clean and unclean has anything at all to do with treating others unkindly.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#12
Well this thread is definitely a headscratcher. I agree with Muzungu256, and can't see how his comment has anything at all to do with treating others unkindly, or to differentiate between clean and unclean has anything at all to do with treating others unkindly.
Did you read the thread?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,095
6,479
113
#13
Read EVERY comment!

whew.........funny thing is, now I am craving a pulled pork sandwich and a big order of steak fries......
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#14
I am copying this from another thread because I believe that an important principle needs to be addressed:

Originally Posted by Muzungu256

interesting.......... isaiah 66:17 looks like the Lord coming back u see......... and eating swine is still a sin!!!!!!!!
no church ever teaches this though.... i wonder what it means u see. it doesnt matter, i dont eat swine anyway.

IMO Circumcision was a sign of being under God's covenant with Abraham. But men under that covenant did not walk around with their circumcision showing. Besides this the women had no sign of the covenant.

Ge 9:3-4
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat
KJV

1 Ti 4:4
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
KJV


Between these we find Leviticus chapter 11. separating the clean from the unclean.

I believe that the purpose of the Law of Moses was to persuade people, especially Israel, that they could not be right with God by their own efforts.

I believe that the purpose of Lev chapter 11 was to give the nation of Israel an outward sign of the Mosaic covenant.

I believe that the outward sign of the new covenant (Jer 31:31-34) is:

Jn 13:35
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
KJV

I believe that the anger and ugliness that we see on the forum helps us distinguish who among us takes God's word to heart.

If we relate to one another in obedience to the precepts that Jesus taught; that IMO is of far more importance than doctrinal correctness.

That is NOT intended to suggest that sound doctrine is unimportant.

It does mean that unsound doctrine is NOT an excuse for treating others unkindly.
I have read this thread, and the OP several times. You state a few "I believe(s)", that I've yet to find in the Word. This is what I find in Leviticus 11~

[SUP]44 [/SUP]For I am Adonai your God; therefore, consecrate yourselves and be holy, for I am holy; and do not defile yourselves with any kind of swarming creature that moves along the ground. (Maftir) [SUP]45 [/SUP]For I am Adonai, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. Therefore you are to be holy, because I am holy.

Everyone who wants to please our Maker should study Leviticus. We serve a holy God, and He has saved us while we were yet sinners. Isn't that similar to saving His people out of Egypt? He saves us..then He shows us what pleases Him.

To quote David N. Bivin:One should not be too quick to throw out large portions of the Torah because of a four-word parenthetical comment by Mark at the end of a long halachic discussion.


 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#15
I have read this thread, and the OP several times. You state a few "I believe(s)", that I've yet to find in the Word. This is what I find in Leviticus 11~

[SUP]44 [/SUP]For I am Adonai your God; therefore, consecrate yourselves and be holy, for I am holy; and do not defile yourselves with any kind of swarming creature that moves along the ground. (Maftir) [SUP]45 [/SUP]For I am Adonai, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. Therefore you are to be holy, because I am holy.

Everyone who wants to please our Maker should study Leviticus. We serve a holy God, and He has saved us while we were yet sinners. Isn't that similar to saving His people out of Egypt? He saves us..then He shows us what pleases Him.

To quote David N. Bivin:One should not be too quick to throw out large portions of the Torah because of a four-word parenthetical comment by Mark at the end of a long halachic discussion.


I don't believe that anything I post should be understood as inspired text! people including you are free to disagree with me.

I allow any NT teaching on any subject to take precedence over any OT teaching on the same subject.

The Law told people what is required to please God in their own efforts. Nobody was able to do it! That's the point!

Jesus kept the law for me because He knew I couldn't. Anyone who tries to keep the Law after being saved is telling God that what Jesus did isn't good enough. THAT IS NOT MY MESSAGE!! Dr Bevin is mistaken. While I understand his stilted language I am certainly not going to use it on a forum.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#16
marc u are jewish can u tell me if isaiah 66:17 is about the end? it looks like it u see.
so why does it still condemn eating swine???

also is this a jab at me for teaching unsound doctrine cuz i wasnt teacihng anyone or anything, i was just asking a question if thats about the second coming u see..... and it looks like it still forbids eating swine at the end......

Isaiah 66:17King James Version (KJV)

17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.


Muzungu; I think what you have stumbled onto is a prophecy that has already come true today. "As in the days of Noah" has many meanings, but for the prophecy buff like myself, it means that we will be like those people during the period of time before the flood. Where the Angels came down and took the daughters of men for wives. During the following 120 years Nephilim (giants) were born and the knowledge of the Angels was shared with the people. DNA manipulation would be nothing to a being (angel) whose knowledge is unbounded.

Anyway, back to Isaiah 66;17 prophecy..... In the early 2010s, a Northern University (I'll not call their name) was trying to find a way to make Pig Flagellants have less Methane in them. They accomplished this by combining the DNA of a MOUSE, A Pig, and Fecal E-coli * (the Abomination). The product of this mixture did produce less Methane but the FDA and other Countries placed it on hold for an indefinite period of time. However, the information for the combining process leaked out (yes, they had leaks back in those days also lol) to other Universities and companies who continued experimenting along these and other routes. This prophecy has come true. A pig, A mouse and an abomination (Fecal E-coli)



*(Fecal E-coli) found in the bowels of Man would be considered an abomination under the laws of Moses. in fact, if someone had the trots, they could not come into camp until it stopped and they had washed themselves thoroughly..