Apostasy 101

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Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Would you give your Interpretation of how 1 John 3:1-3 and 2 peter 2:22 harmonize?
I was agreeing that the person that has been made perfect by GOD will also seek to be perfect In their body.
You quoted 2 Peter can you harmonize those two scripture verses below and edify us all?

1 John 3:1-3
King James Version

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.


2 Peter 2:22
King James Version

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
It is the idea of once saved always saved that contradicts the scriptures, so having that mindset needs rearranging scriptures to fit.

Purifying yourself is working towards what God has promised which is eternal life and there are so many verses that talk about the same. For example; the one who perseveres to the end shall be saved. The idea that one is already eternally saved and God will help them to the end because they can not lose their salvation is falsehood.

Heb 10:36You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised.

Rom 2: 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”a 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.

1 John 2:24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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your can't act in love without a heart full of God's love...

For that, we need God.
Yes, God is in everyone's heart, commanding each one to love. So we love in obedience to God.

Acts 17:27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’d As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’e 29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.
 

Hazelelponi

Active member
Jul 8, 2019
190
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USA
Yes, God is in everyone's heart, commanding each one to love. So we love in obedience to God.

Acts 17:27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’d As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’e 29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

God's not in everyone's heart.. that's patently false.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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It is the idea of once saved always saved that contradicts the scriptures, so having that mindset needs rearranging scriptures to fit.

Purifying yourself is working towards what God has promised which is eternal life and there are so many verses that talk about the same. For example; the one who perseveres to the end shall be saved. The idea that one is already eternally saved and God will help them to the end because they can not lose their salvation is falsehood.

Heb 10:36You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised.

Rom 2: 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”a 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.

1 John 2:24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.
I didn't see 1 John 3:1-3
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
6,264
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your can't act in love without a heart full of God's love...

For that, we need God.
Amen! We are so fortunate that He first loved us.

1 John 4
4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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For sure .... he is actually exposing his false beliefs even more..... like Jesus did not pay for all sins of the believer.
Quite wrong.
It just exposes more
it will never do what he thinks because people actually searching will be able to read right through it. And seeing so many threads just make it look like someone is trying to spam the site
 
Nov 16, 2019
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My post proves otherwise - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/that-hebrews-10v26-thread.189675/ but you (along with the others) will continue to believe ONLY what you want to believe, regardless of the truth. :(
No, I think it is you who will continue to believe only what you want to believe.
I showed you from scripture there is no such thing as an unbelieving, willfully sinning person in the congregation who is somehow sanctified by God for the sake of us believers like an unbelieving spouse is.
I proved it to you with plain scripture.

If what you say is true EVERYONE is sanctified by God, lol.
 

Hazelelponi

Active member
Jul 8, 2019
190
181
43
USA
No, I think it is you who will continue to believe only what you want to believe.
I showed you from scripture there is no such thing as an unbelieving, willfully sinning person in the congregation who is somehow sanctified by God for the sake of us believers like an unbelieving spouse is.
I proved it to you with plain scripture.

If what you say is true EVERYONE is sanctified by God, lol.

Just a thought here, but if proximity to believers does not provide a santifying cover for the unbeliever - why is removing them from the congregation of believers considered delivering them up to Satan? if they be delivered already...
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Opening up all these threads makes for a more interesting CC forum than the endless whining carrying on in your Not by Works thread, which has 3 years of works and no resolution or edification.
:D
This OP by @dcontroversal needs no resolution.... because it is a statement of TRUTH....and because it is TRUTH it is edifying.

Your threads ... hmmm ... VOID of truth comes to mind.

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Just a thought here, but if proximity to believers does not provide a santifying cover for the unbeliever - why is removing them from the congregation of believers considered delivering them up to Satan? if they be delivered already...
They're being turned over to the lusts of the flesh and the power of the devil in the hope that will bring them to repentance. No duplicity, no more facade of righteousness, no more church to hide behind. The hope is that doing that will result in the unrepentant person coming to their senses and seeing the reality of their situation and repenting and crucifying the desires of the flesh so they are prepared to meet Christ at his return, because they won't be prepared and be saved if they don't do that. I don't think it's necessarily saying that his physical body must die in order for him to be saved when Jesus comes back (but I'm not ruling it out). I don't see any value towards salvation in your body dying as punishment for sin.

The important thing to note here is, that has to happen in order for his spirit to be saved when Christ comes back. But the popular teaching of the day is this person is saved no matter what he does and does not have to repent of anything to be saved when Jesus comes back. .

Note, in 1 Corinthians 11:30 these people in the church who did die because of their sin did not have some kind of sanctifying covering from their association with the church. And these are believers! How much less of a sanctifying covering the willfully sinning unbeliever in the church has, then. A sanctifying cover for willfully sinning people in the church does not exist.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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God's not in everyone's heart.. that's patently false.
1 John 4:
9This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and onlyc Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrificed for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us.

Heb 5: 9And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

So God being love, He is a command in everyone's heart.

If God is not in some people, from where do they get their breath (life)?

Job 33:4The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Job 27:3as long as my breath is still within me and the breath of God remains in my nostrils, 4my lips will not speak wickedness, and my tongue will not utter deceit.
 

Hazelelponi

Active member
Jul 8, 2019
190
181
43
USA
They're being turned over to the lusts of the flesh and the power of the devil in the hope that will bring them to repentance. No duplicity, no more facade of righteousness, no more church to hide behind. The hope is that doing that will result in the unrepentant person coming to their senses and seeing the reality of their situation and repenting and crucifying the desires of the flesh so they are prepared to meet Christ at his return, because they won't be prepared and be saved if they don't do that. I don't think it's necessarily saying that his physical body must die in order for him to be saved when Jesus comes back (but I'm not ruling it out). I don't see any value towards salvation in your body dying as punishment for sin.

The important thing to note here is, that has to happen in order for his spirit to be saved when Christ comes back. But the popular teaching of the day is this person is saved no matter what he does and does not have to repent of anything to be saved when Jesus comes back. .

Note, in 1 Corinthians 11:30 these people in the church who did die because of their sin did not have some kind of sanctifying covering from their association with the church. And these are believers! How much less of a sanctifying covering the willfully sinning unbeliever in the church has, then. A sanctifying cover for willfully sinning people in the church does not exist.

I think it's far far deeper than that.

First, when we are saved truly we are saved on a fundamental level.. it's not mere accent, it's deeper than that.

Many have accent, but that road doesn't lead to salvation because its devoid of the fundamental change that occurs with the truly saved.

In Islam a woman cannot marry a Christian man. I did, and As Christ was head of my husband the Spirit over the house was a santifying cover, one that ultimately led to my salvation. The very reason that Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian man is the existence of that very Spirit.

In the Book of Revelation the address is to the Angel of the church of x. This can be taken two ways, and can be taken both possible ways. The Angel is the very human Pastor, who is God's messenger to the congregation. The Angel is an actual Angel, who is the sanctifying Spirit over that church.

It can be both, when people are full of God's Spirit, mere proximity to that Spirit can - and does - sanctify.

A person can "kick against the goads", or they can submit.

A person can give their mental accent to Christ, and then behind everyone's back, or openly, live as if they were devoid of Christ - because they are. There was no fundamental change in them, so they happily and joyfully continue in their sin, as if they never gave any accent at all.

The person who is still young in the faith and still has some struggles isn't this person. This person happily and joyfully lives in their sin, and relishes every moment of it not caring for the consequences.

Why? Because they never had any more than accent, they never had the change from God that is fundamental, and essential for the Christian life.

But to say proximity to believers has no santifying ability, is to misunderstand what the Spirit of God over a congregation, and within the congregation can do to other people.

It gives them the ability to choose, that they otherwise don't have. The sanctifying Spirit gave me a freedom of thought I didn't have before coming into his home. Something important changed, and I think the Bible indicates its the same way for anyone who has close promimity to actual believers... it keeps Satan at bay long enough to have freedom of mind and thought... the ability to begin to see, although it doesn't heal completely, it gives freedom.