Apostles and Prophets

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A

Abiding

Guest
#1
After seeing much emotion over Apostles and Prophets in the forums
I redid my homework on the subject, and came to the biblical conclusion
again there are no Apostles and Prophets in the church. Like the ones in scripture.

This thread is to gather information before i make something of my notes
and start a new thread on the subject. Here are my questions, to those
who think there are still Apostles and Prophets.


1 Why do you think the office of Apostles and Prophets are in the church today?

2 What would they accomplish if they were?

3 And do you think it matters as I do seeing all the False Apostles and False Prophets?

4 and would you change your mind if the bible supported that there are no Apostles or Prophets?
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#2
1 Why do you think the office of Apostles and Prophets are in the church today?
Because Ephesians 4:11-14 says that there will be all 5 ministerial offices until the Church is perfected. Which has yet to happen-
2 What would they accomplish if they were?
To help with the perfecting of the saints
3 And do you think it matters as I do seeing all the False Apostles and False Prophets?
Yes it matter. However I have stated before we must know the authentic in such away that any counterfeit will be easily detected

4 and would you change your mind if the bible supported that there are no Apostles or Prophets?
Yes I would



It is important that we all, including myself, align our beliefs with scripture, rather than trying to force scripture to align with our beliefs
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#3
well, perhaps I agree in principle that there is no longer an apostlic era or an era of prophets in general. But I still think God can give people a calling to do a particular work. The experiience might seem like a call to be a prophet or apostle because of the authority of God's voice.

Ephesians 2
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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#4
I believe that prophets and apostles do exist. They do what they are called to do. Apostles hear from God. Prophets give prophecy. What if God still wanted to prophesy? Do you know that you are saying God can't do something anymore?
 
1

1joh39

Guest
#5
If you only know false prophets, and false apostles, change your company! ALL holy people regocnise eachother, just like the two infants in the mother wombs.. John and Jesus... The bond of God goes way beyond this earth! His Kingdom is HERE one earth right now.. And the spirits of the prohets are here right now, and they are 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. ..In all the churches of the saints prophecies ALL COME TRUE! Seek this church and you shall be part of the prophecy, part of the Apostle and Part of the whole Body, strive for the gift yourself.. the gift of prophecy... Why do you not become the FIRST true prophet you know? Wh ynot ask God for the headoffice as Apostle, and then if God leads you to lay hands on people He uses YOUR hands to baptize them with Holy Spirit.. the final step to salvation and fixed in the Body. Do you know what your potential is in GOD? And God's potential in you is only manifested with the gifts He gives you, as He wills. You only has to seek Him in Truth and in spirit, and you shall recieve. Look at this. For as God is so are we in this world... How is God? 1 John 4
 
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A

Abiding

Guest
#6
If anyone can be more specific, or give more detail in the two offices in precisely what they would accomplish it would be helpful.
No Id never say that God would not do all things after the council of His own will. But this is an important topic if the bible
has already given us some information. For our protection.
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#7
I believe that prophets and apostles do exist. They do what they are called to do. Apostles hear from God. Prophets give prophecy. What if God still wanted to prophesy? Do you know that you are saying God can't do something anymore?
just because God pours out his spirit genrously does not mean everyone is a prophet. Sure they can prophesy, but how many are prophets like Malachi, Joel, Isaiah, Ezekiel or even like John the Baptist?

No one has been asked to stand in the gap and take the rap or carry the can for the whole church. Isaiah stood in the gap and paul suffered and took the rap. Jesus saw it through to the end.

It is easy to be an armchair prophet. But the prophets of today must show their signs like walking barefoot or eating polluted bread or building siege ramps or breaking walls; stepping out of palaces and easy lives and dressing in rough clothes calling out righteousness.

They must put their money where their mouth is.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#8
If you only know false prophets, and false apostles, change your company! ALL holy people regocnise eachother, just like the two infants in the mother wombs.. John and Jesus... The bond of God goes way beyond this earth! His Kingdom is HERE one earth right now.. And the spirits of the prohets are here right now, and they are 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. ..In all the churches of the saints prophecies ALL COME TRUE! Seek this church and you shall be part of the prophecy, part of the Apostle and Part of the whole Body, strive for the gift yourself.. the gift of prophecy... Why do you not become the FIRST true prophet you know? Wh ynot ask God for the headoffice as Apostle, and then if God leads you to lay hands on people He uses YOUR hands to baptize them with Holy Spirit.. the final step to salvation and fixed in the Body. Do you know what your potential is in GOD? And God's potential in you is only manifested with the gifts He gives you, as He wills. You only has to seek Him in Truth and in spirit, and you shall recieve. Look at this. For as God is so are we in this world... How is God? 1 John 4
Thanks, my faith wont take me past scripture, there is too much spiritual power out there to just go blindly.
Im not talking about the gift of prophecy..that could be another thread.
 
R

Ramon

Guest
#9
just because God pours out his spirit genrously does not mean everyone is a prophet. Sure they can prophesy, but how many are prophets like Malachi, Joel, Isaiah, Ezekiel or even like John the Baptist?

No one has been asked to stand in the gap and take the rap or carry the can for the whole church. Isaiah stood in the gap and paul suffered and took the rap. Jesus saw it through to the end.

It is easy to be an armchair prophet. But the prophets of today must show their signs like walking barefoot or eating polluted bread or building siege ramps or breaking walls; stepping out of palaces and easy lives and dressing in rough clothes calling out righteousness.

They must put their money where their mouth is.
Wow. That is so incorrect my friend.

John the Baptist came in the flesh wearing as you said, but John came in the Spirit. He was also born of the Spirit. His spirit was the spirit of Elijah, who was to come before Jesus Christ. Jesus bear witness of John who he was.

Even though he came wearing those clothes, people still didn't know who he was. Jesus came as he came, and people didn't know who he was. They are carnal people. If you judge a man after the flesh, you will be in error. And how do you judge a man after the Spirit? I say you ought not to judge at all.

Let's hear Jesus on this matter about John:

Matt 11:16 ¶But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Matt 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Matt 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
Matt 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Matt 11:20 ¶Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

And Jesus says further:

Matt 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Matt 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Matt 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

May Jesus bless you.
 
R

Ramon

Guest
#10
Thanks, my faith wont take me past scripture, there is too much spiritual power out there to just go blindly.
Im not talking about the gift of prophecy..that could be another thread.
The seeing are not those who read scripture, as anyone, including Satan can read scripture. The blind are those who obey Satan and not Jesus Christ.

There are blind people in churches and outside of churches. Anyone that is not lead by the Holy Spirit is blind.

May Jesus bless you.
 
1

1joh39

Guest
#11
All offices is manifestations of the Holy Spirit in thoise people, and they do exactly what God wants them to do in the season applicable. All prohecies for the formation of God's word is done, but the revelations of the prohecies, and the personal prohecies for the edifying has to continue... And the baptism of Holy Spirit by an apostle has to happen for the perfecting of the saint to be edified INTO the body to become a perfect man, to the measure God predestined for the saint. A saint is only a man that stopped sinning, like Johns mother and Father in Luke 1. But unlike them the saints AFTER Jesus get the FULL blessing of God. not only obedience, but also HIS WORKS.. and His works is only done by the SPIRIT OF GOD! The Spirit in the old testiment came over people and did things, but now the Spirit has to RESIDE in the people so they can CONTINUALLY do what GOD wants them to do. The Spirit of God is preprogrammed to do in you what God intended for you to do even before the earth was made. Like Paul's teachings and Gospel it was reserved for him alone, and so is your works for God. Your spirit will not be doing the work, God will occupy your body with His Spirit to do the work. You soul will be used by His Spirit, and every breath you take will be holy! Every word you speak will be holy... For the holy EVERYTHING is holy! EVERYTHING! Because even the hair on your body is accounted for. If God takes this much detail care of your body, how much more will he take care of the WHOLE Body? You think God cannot preserve Himself and His son holy and perfect? Go tell Him that, I bet He might have something to say to you, and it would be in Love, do not fear to stand up against God, he will not harm you, he will only reproof you! and you will stand foolish and in absolute awe! He is just so PERFECT! Go ask Him anything you like He loves to have converstions, He is the ULTIMATE teacher.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#12
1 Why do you think the office of Apostles and Prophets are in the church today? NO

2 What would they accomplish if they were? Nothing for them to accomplish. Scripture is complete and the church has been quite established for a few thousand years.

3 And do you think it matters as I do seeing all the False Apostles and False Prophets? Yes, Satan comes as an angel of light. We have to discern what is of god and what is of Satan

4 and would you change your mind if the bible supported that there are no Apostles or Prophets? Not applicable
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#13
Having said the above. I do believe God can still speak through people. I think God can lead a person to talk to someone. Or help a person warn others of dangers. Or even be directed in other ways. This would be works a prophet would do. The reason I do not think the office of prophet is applicable., Is because God does not have one person where this is his or her full time Gift.
 
1

1joh39

Guest
#14
EG...When were the two prophets here to testify in the city called spirtually SODOM? Or are they still to come, and if they do what is your take on them? One is living in my house! So you tell God he cannot send those two prophets becasue EG says NO!!!
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#15
1 Why do you think the office of Apostles and Prophets are in the church today? NO

2 What would they accomplish if they were? Nothing for them to accomplish. Scripture is complete and the church has been quite established for a few thousand years.

3 And do you think it matters as I do seeing all the False Apostles and False Prophets? Yes, Satan comes as an angel of light. We have to discern what is of god and what is of Satan

4 and would you change your mind if the bible supported that there are no Apostles or Prophets? Not applicable
Seeing that EG is on the opposite side of the truth in almost every way, I know where I stand on this issue
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#17
Seeing that EG is on the opposite side of the truth in almost every way, I know where I stand on this issue
well yeah. You believe God is an indian Giver. You can earn you way to heaven. God will somehow welcome you with open arms because your so GOOD. And send those evil people to hell.

So lets follow you!!

No thanks. I will follow God.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,795
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#18
Aposte=one sent
prophet=one who preaches
faith cometh by hearing, and hearing bythe word and the word by a preacher, and the preacher
sent bygod
Paul set up the churches and taught them about the spiritual gifts and how they should work.
Is it too hard for people to believe in the five -fold ministry?.
 
Mar 14, 2011
52,959
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#19
Aposte=one sent
prophet=one who preaches
faith cometh by hearing, and hearing bythe word and the word by a preacher, and the preacher
sent bygod
Paul set up the churches and taught them about the spiritual gifts and how they should work.
Is it too hard for people to believe in the five -fold ministry?.
Apostle does = one sent.

Paul was sent to the gentiles. where no church was established, and he started all these churches.
James Peter and John were given authority in Jeruslaem. To start the church there.
Other Apostles did the same.

Can you tell me where in america a church needs to be established? where one has not been in existance for many many years?

A prophets is one who "speaks forth from God"

God has given us his word. If God wanted us to know more than is contained in his word. God would have continued to write his word, and not closed the book. Can you tell me why God needs people to speak his word. when his word is given to us,

why do we need anything other than pastor/teachers and elders. Who God can speak through. But more importantly can interpret his word for us. (and even then they need tested because they are not perfect)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#20
The seeing are not those who read scripture, as anyone, including Satan can read scripture. The blind are those who obey Satan and not Jesus Christ.

There are blind people in churches and outside of churches. Anyone that is not lead by the Holy Spirit is blind.

May Jesus bless you.

Da, Did you stop by to say that? why? did you have a response to the thread?