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I am not a pentecostal, so do not believe 'tongues' are a sign of the Spirit indwelling you. if that was the case I am sure Paul would have said this is a gift 'everyone' has. But I am sure you will note he never says this concerning gifts of the Spirit.
I am not a cessationist, but to say soempone is not of the Holy Spirit until they are speaking in tongues is ridiculous. well I think so. as do the majority of non Pentecostals.
Phil
I am not a cessationist, but to say soempone is not of the Holy Spirit until they are speaking in tongues is ridiculous. well I think so. as do the majority of non Pentecostals.
Phil
D
There is evidence though when you receive the Spirit.
There are different types of tongues. That's what many people don't understand. The Gift of tongues is to be able to prophecy. But we can all magnify God and speak in tongues. As it is the Spirit of God doing so.
I don't know how people can deny it, when it happens. I have even had dreams of speaking in tongues. The Spirit was praying for me.
There are different types of tongues. That's what many people don't understand. The Gift of tongues is to be able to prophecy. But we can all magnify God and speak in tongues. As it is the Spirit of God doing so.
I don't know how people can deny it, when it happens. I have even had dreams of speaking in tongues. The Spirit was praying for me.
This tends to be the argument of Pentecostals. So where are these different types of tongues talked abotu
I presume there is a different language for Prophecy.
A different language for Praise
A different one for prayer.
So where exactly does it say this in Scripture.
I can deny it very easily Dmurray, I am not saying that people cannot speak in tongues, however, if it is not according to Scripture then it is ultimately false. so where does it show that we speak in different types of tongues for different situations? I am very interested!
And where does it say everyone has this gift?
Phil
No I don't believe that at all, I think on the whole Pentecostals are Born Again, just like any other denomination. However, I believe that some of your Doctrines are wrong especially tongues as a sign of being a Christian that is nowhere to be seen in Scripture.
The problem with all these modern Doctrines is, as well as those from times gone past lead to a false under standing of Scripture leading to all sorts, and this has happened. I am not saying that you are not born again.
Phil
N
[youtube]YMkpn0iZonA[youtube] if I didn't put it right here is the link YouTube - Has the gift of speaking in tongues ceased? - Tim Conway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMkpn0iZonA
I always tought this video is truthful. I believe it has a place, but most of whats going on today , is emotional and not what we see happen in the bible.
I always tought this video is truthful. I believe it has a place, but most of whats going on today , is emotional and not what we see happen in the bible.
S
Phil actually the bible does teach that they are a sign - I would encourage you to read 1 Corinthians 13-14, one verse in particular is:
1 Corinthians 14:22
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
So, yes the bible does they tongues are an evidence of the Spirit, because obviously unbelievers aren't going to be producing signs for unbelievers.
Is it the only evidence? No certainly not (for the record I don't hold to the oneness pentecostal view of tongues). I had a feeling you were a cessationist, I wonder what you think of:
John 14:12
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
(No that doesn't include tongues, wasn't my point though), you believe the gifts have ceased, I know you can't prove that through the bible - so I won't ask you to try.
Just providing some of God's holy word for you to meditate on.
1 Corinthians 14:22
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
So, yes the bible does they tongues are an evidence of the Spirit, because obviously unbelievers aren't going to be producing signs for unbelievers.
Is it the only evidence? No certainly not (for the record I don't hold to the oneness pentecostal view of tongues). I had a feeling you were a cessationist, I wonder what you think of:
John 14:12
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
(No that doesn't include tongues, wasn't my point though), you believe the gifts have ceased, I know you can't prove that through the bible - so I won't ask you to try.
Just providing some of God's holy word for you to meditate on.
The verse you provide does not prove anything other than what Paul said.. each person has a gift not everyone has tongues. also this verse does not say this is a sign of the person being a believer. thirdly, it is not just the 'oneness' Pentecostals who hold this teaching
So all you need is just a bit of thought on verse you try and use as proof, when they actually in context mean something else.
we all can lift one verse, and try and make it say what we want.
Another point regarding John 14:12, I am not cessationist, and are you sure that this is what you think it is saying??
So Please do not assume what I believe, you have made a foolish mistake, but we all can make those. It shows that you do not read posts properly or you just ignore what is being said!
Phil
G
Jesus, the true authority of our faith, told us that by their fruits we will know them. This is how we are to judge, by the fruits of the Holy Spirit: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self Control. Whether we speak in tongues or not, if we have not the fruits of the Spirit, then we have not the Spirit.
Everyone who is having trouble with this issue needs to do an intense study of 1 Corinthians 14. Paul lays out the whole issue of speaking in tongues and the benefits/hindrances thereof. We should not pick scriptures here and there, willy nilly and expect that we have the final authority of God. Read all the scriptures before claiming to understand these things and their meanings and implications.
Everyone who is having trouble with this issue needs to do an intense study of 1 Corinthians 14. Paul lays out the whole issue of speaking in tongues and the benefits/hindrances thereof. We should not pick scriptures here and there, willy nilly and expect that we have the final authority of God. Read all the scriptures before claiming to understand these things and their meanings and implications.