Are believers united to Jesus or to the Law?

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UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
1,603
822
113
#1
One of the most important concepts in Christianity is union with Christ. If you don't understand this concept, I recommend reading Union with Christ by Rankin Wilbourne.

The believer is joined with Jesus in a legal and spiritual sense upon salvation.

In a legal sense, he shares Jesus' assets, like a woman shares the assets of her husband upon marriage. These assets include his righteousness and his sonship.

In a vital sense, he shares in Jesus' life. Jesus is the source of his spiritual life, and the indwelling presence of Jesus, through the mediation of the Holy Spirit, empowers him to produce spiritual fruit and enables him to endure any burden or suffering.

I really encourage everyone to study and understand this concept, and the aforementioned book is a good, simple read in order to understand it. Union with Christ is what salvation is about, and it makes perfect sense of justification, sanctification and glorification. One can't be legally united with Christ, and fail to be vitally united with him, producing spiritual fruit. This concept refutes the "Free Grace" teaching that it is perfectly ok to be an unfruitful Christian, and that one can be saved without producing spiritual fruit. It also refutes the notions of the works-salvation, sinless perfectionist types who place the emphasis on their ability to produce works.

Anyways, here's my question...in Romans 7:1-6, Paul indicates that the believer has been joined to Christ, and that is how he produces fruit. He is not bound to the law again, but he is joined to Jesus, and that is how he produces spiritual fruit.

Do you think that Judaizers are confused about the nature of the spiritual union with Christ, and as a result, they are still bound to the Law? What would help them realize that they need to be joined to Christ instead?

By the way, I think that's why God destroyed the Temple system in AD 70. He eliminated any claim that someone was achieving righteousness through the Mosaic Law. In essence, I think Judaizers are idolaters, who have not replaced the idol of the Mosaic Law with the Reality it pointed to, Jesus the Messiah.

The true believer is joined to Christ, and produces fruit through this union, which includes holy living. So I am not proposing that those joined to Christ don't live holy lives...it is part of the fruit of being joined with Jesus.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,947
10,315
113
#2
A few thoughts

1. Grace is free, if it is not , it is not grace. This is not to say a believer can live in sin, John says this is impossible. As he said, whoever sins has never seen or known God.. whoever is born of God can not sin.
2. As for the law I think it is the religious aspect of human nature, I believe it is our nature to look to performance, and not to grace, As you can make performance in a way you appear to live up to it. This you can earn your forgiveness, Which is human nature, it is not human nature to say I am guilty, and I do not have to do anything to make up for it..
3. They also (I think because of religion) think the law shows how to be morally good. And it was given by god. And God said it was good. So who should argue with them? When they fail to understand, the law can not make us morally good. It proves our moral guilt. The same law which proves guilt of everyone, and as paul said shuts every mouth, can not at the same time show us how to be righteous.. or become christlike.. Because it was not made for that purpose (gal 3)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#3
One of the most important concepts in Christianity is union with Christ. If you don't understand this concept, I recommend reading Union with Christ by Rankin Wilbourne.

The believer is joined with Jesus in a legal and spiritual sense upon salvation.

In a legal sense, he shares Jesus' assets, like a woman shares the assets of her husband upon marriage. These assets include his righteousness and his sonship.

In a vital sense, he shares in Jesus' life. Jesus is the source of his spiritual life, and the indwelling presence of Jesus, through the mediation of the Holy Spirit, empowers him to produce spiritual fruit and enables him to endure any burden or suffering.

I really encourage everyone to study and understand this concept, and the aforementioned book is a good, simple read in order to understand it. Union with Christ is what salvation is about, and it makes perfect sense of justification, sanctification and glorification. One can't be legally united with Christ, and fail to be vitally united with him, producing spiritual fruit. This concept refutes the "Free Grace" teaching that it is perfectly ok to be an unfruitful Christian, and that one can be saved without producing spiritual fruit. It also refutes the notions of the works-salvation, sinless perfectionist types who place the emphasis on their ability to produce works.

Anyways, here's my question...in Romans 7:1-6, Paul indicates that the believer has been joined to Christ, and that is how he produces fruit. He is not bound to the law again, but he is joined to Jesus, and that is how he produces spiritual fruit.

Do you think that Judaizers are confused about the nature of the spiritual union with Christ, and as a result, they are still bound to the Law? What would help them realize that they need to be joined to Christ instead?

By the way, I think that's why God destroyed the Temple system in AD 70. He eliminated any claim that someone was achieving righteousness through the Mosaic Law. In essence, I think Judaizers are idolaters, who have not replaced the idol of the Mosaic Law with the Reality it pointed to, Jesus the Messiah.

The true believer is joined to Christ, and produces fruit through this union, which includes holy living. So I am not proposing that those joined to Christ don't live holy lives...it is part of the fruit of being joined with Jesus.
Yep, union with Christ make us produce the fruit and the fruit of Holy Spirit is love.

Then we do the law out of love, not legalist.

One may follow the law, Example not rob the bank, but not out of love, only do not want to go to prison.

But Christian not rob the bank because of love, love not hurt other.

When Jesus dweel in us, than we are become Christ like, love other.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#5
A few thoughts

1. Grace is free, if it is not , it is not grace. This is not to say a believer can live in sin, John says this is impossible. As he said, whoever sins has never seen or known God.. whoever is born of God can not sin.
2. As for the law I think it is the religious aspect of human nature, I believe it is our nature to look to performance, and not to grace, As you can make performance in a way you appear to live up to it. This you can earn your forgiveness, Which is human nature, it is not human nature to say I am guilty, and I do not have to do anything to make up for it..
3. They also (I think because of religion) think the law shows how to be morally good. And it was given by god. And God said it was good. So who should argue with them? When they fail to understand, the law can not make us morally good. It proves our moral guilt. The same law which proves guilt of everyone, and as paul said shuts every mouth, can not at the same time show us how to be righteous.. or become christlike.. Because it was not made for that purpose (gal 3)

Grace is free, that free grace couse you to be Christ like, to love other

And to love other take a Lot of work.

Love other some time mean help other, give food to other etc, It is a Lot of work
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,947
10,315
113
#6
Grace is free, that free grace couse you to be Christ like, to love other

And to love other take a Lot of work.

Love other some time mean help other, give food to other etc, It is a Lot of work
It is not alot of work when you have the right attitude of love,, It is only alot of work when you are doing it because you think you have to. Or to try to earn brownie points.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,229
1,227
113
63
#7
Do you think that Judaizers are confused about the nature of the spiritual union with Christ, and as a result, they are still bound to the Law? What would help them realize that they need to be joined to Christ instead?
Hi UnitedWithChrist, the true Judaizers who I've run into, here and elsewhere (who, at best, occasionally pay lip-service to salvation by grace through faith), are CINO, so their understanding of anything from God's "spiritual" POV, including the Gospel, is simply beyond them in their present condition .. cf 1 Corinthians 1:18, 2:14.

~Deut
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,784
5,434
113
#8
Grace is free, that free grace couse you to be Christ like, to love other

And to love other take a Lot of work.

Love other some time mean help other, give food to other etc, It is a Lot of work
I agree that loving at all times, to all ppl as we are called is not always easy. I think it is a process of sanctification and growth and His work within helps us get where we need to be...in Him.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#14
It is not alot of work when you have the right attitude of love,, It is only alot of work when you are doing it because you think you have to. Or to try to earn brownie points.


You mean a Lot of work but you like it so not fell heavy?
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,947
10,315
113
#16
Work takes energy and is hard.

I mean we are acting our new nature, ths it is no longer work.. Except when we fight it.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
1,603
822
113
#17
There is some effort involved..we need to "put on Christ"..even though we are clothed in Christ, there is still a struggle.

Reading Paul's writings is great....I didn't realize how much I lacked in understanding him until reading the book referenced above...in fact Ephesians is largely about the believers' identity in Christ.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
567
113
#18
Work takes energy and is hard.

I mean we are acting our new nature, ths it is no longer work.. Except when we fight it.

Say you work at McDonald, earn some money and part of It you give to the hungry, you not consider a work?
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,229
1,227
113
63
#20
Hello Deut :) What is CINO? :unsure:
Sorry Sister, I normally put it this way in my posts, CINO (Christian In Name Only), so that there's no confusion.

Unfortunately, I now see that it means different things to different people too. For me, it means someone who claims to be a Christian, but is not. I'll need to figure out how to be clearer about all of this in the future :unsure:

~Deut