Are curses still relevant to the Christians?

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Jan 25, 2015
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#81
God blesses and curses in the OT. It says this in Deuteronomy.
Hi Roughsoul, I hope you are doing well and that you are feeling blessed today?

The Bible teach us that God is good and that He is love. So it is not in His character to curse us. When and why are we being cursed then? It is when we open the doors and sin enters our lives, example:

1)Adam and Eve opened the door when they ate of the fruit and a curse was the consequence
2)David opened the door when he slept with another man's wife and a curse was the consequence
3)Samson opened the door when he told Delilah about his secret and a curse was the consequence

We can go on and on but never in the word do we see God walking up to a person and say "curse" without a reason. It is not His character. So when we open doors we will get the curses from God. Yes, we can repent and the blood of Jesus can clean all but we all have open doors for curses in our lives.

We are blessed when we are in covenant with God, but cursed when we sin and open doors in our lives. Hope this helps somebody in their journey with Abba Father.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
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#82
I believe we are as Adam descendant are under curse. But Jesus offer salvation from eternal curse if we believe His teaching.
I believe God not create a man to die, I think if Adam not fall in sin, he never die and not growth old like in the 30 forever because of sin he is under curse.
But because of sin he is mortal.
After believe Jesus, we still mortal, but not go to hell.
Jesus save us from hell, but not from mortal, there is exception for Elijah and henogh the rest of us still under the curse of mortal
But this is not the curse some pastors are speaking of. They speak of a curse as something like a evil bad combination of circumstances that a Christian can carry around.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
4,070
113
#83
Hi Roughsoul, I hope you are doing well and that you are feeling blessed today?

The Bible teach us that God is good and that He is love. So it is not in His character to curse us. When and why are we being cursed then? It is when we open the doors and sin enters our lives, example:

1)Adam and Eve opened the door when they ate of the fruit and a curse was the consequence
2)David opened the door when he slept with another man's wife and a curse was the consequence
3)Samson opened the door when he told Delilah about his secret and a curse was the consequence

We can go on and on but never in the word do we see God walking up to a person and say "curse" without a reason. It is not His character. So when we open doors we will get the curses from God. Yes, we can repent and the blood of Jesus can clean all but we all have open doors for curses in our lives.

We are blessed when we are in covenant with God, but cursed when we sin and open doors in our lives. Hope this helps somebody in their journey with Abba Father.
I am doing well so far today. At work so that is a blessing and a curse lol. Just kidding but some days are rough.

Anyways here is where I pull my understanding.


Deuteronomy 28:15
English Standard Version

Curses for Disobedience
15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
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#84
I think this is the key to protecting ourselves from curses. Scripture lists sin as our worst curse, it condemns us to death. It is only faith is Christ that protects us from this curse, and it protects us from all kinds of curses.

But faith in Christ alone does nothing. Demons have faith, they know all that Christ is and can do, but they act as an enemy. We are to put his word in our heart and minds and act on it, that proves our faith. Christ looks at our repentance to determine our belief in him.
I mostly agree but faith is not the same as belief by the ancient language. I explain this a lot. It makes a difference. The demons believe as in they know of Christ's power. But they do not hold faith in His power. Our salvation as scripture says is faith from first to last. There is action involved but the initial action is surrender as the work to be done is Holy Spirit guided.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
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#85
You just blew me away. Wow.

You know what? I began explaining my position and realized that what I was writing was wrong. Or, at least it seems to be.

As I understand, the removal of the Curse of the Lord is only one side of the entire Adamic Curse. As I understand, the two sides are:

1) The Curse of the decaying physical world. All of creation is groaning, and that includes our bodies. Are bodies are still subject to decay and death.

2) The Curse of the Lord, which is God turning, or handing the human heart over to Satan, who thus is the spiritual father of all when they are born. We are born with naturally hardened hearts, thus the need for Redemption; the need for the Circumcision of Christ.

Jesus Redeems us from the Curse of the Sinful Nature while we are alive. But, after we die, it seems that He Redeems us from physical death, for we will continue to Live with Him in Paradise, providing that we were made Right with God by believing in the Power of the Resurrection of Christ (while we were alive).

Colossians 2:12 NLT - "For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead."

But for those who had died in times past, they were given the chance to be made right with God after Christ had lived and died.

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

So, perhaps that church WAS right about some of the things on that list.

What a great thread. You have really challenged me, and I appreciate that so much!!! You have just helped clarify some things in my mind. I love it when that happens. I cannot thank you enough, roughsoul!
Exactly. At least that is how I see the concept of a curse being two elements.

Another debated topic is what did Jesus actually do right after death. Was the people without the written law still held accountable for instance Cain as their was still a moral law. Or did God judge those under the moral differently? We know from Hebrews that some never entered the promise rest. At that time was the Mosiac law the only way to obtain righteousness through animal sacrifice and obedience because in the Hebrews heroes of faith they list many in the OT as being seen as righteous?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
4,070
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#86
A lot of agreement throughout there I would offer this for consideration regarding who is righteous

“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:

whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:7-8, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to first accept the gospel and then we have to put it into practice
I see a contadiction here in less we find harmony. We know every Christian still battles with sin so is every Christian also of the Devil?

Hebrews 10:14-18
New International Version
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Romans 8:1-4
New International Version
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Paul wrote to many Churches who were still worldly and he chose to edify, correct, and encourage. He did warn of being led away.

I see the harmony not in legalistic works but in Jesus's sacrifice. He paid for the debt of sin, past and future. Once and for all. This is not hyper grace as I also believe one can fall away and eventually give in to apostasy. But it does show the power of God's grace.

There is a huge difference in someone being uncomfortable in sin versus someone who loves it.

Scripture says we are perfected only through Christ. In the time being we are being made holy, sanctification. We are physically perfected on the resurrection. Which is called glorification.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
4,828
1,703
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#87
Exactly. At least that is how I see the concept of a curse being two elements.

Another debated topic is what did Jesus actually do right after death. Was the people without the written law still held accountable for instance Cain as there was still a moral law? Or did God judge those under the moral differently? We know from Hebrews that some never entered the promised rest. At that time was the Mosiac law the only way to obtain righteousness through animal sacrifice and obedience because in the Hebrews heroes of faith they list many in the OT as being seen as righteous?
I'm not sure that I follow your entire post, here, but let's see if what I offer makes sense.

The Moral Law:
This is what I have found to be the 3rd stage of the Law. The "Law," in my estimation is in four states:

1) Pre Law of Moses
2) Law of Moses (instituted beginning in Exo 20:21)
3) Moral Law was placed upon all of mankind (Possibly instituted in Neh 8:8-9)
4) Laws of the Spirit of Life (Vastly given on and after the day of Pentecost, described in Rom 8:2)
.
Once the Moral Law was placed upon the hearts of all people, all humans became fully aware of what was right and wrong. No longer would the written Law need to be disclosed, for this disclosure was written upon all of humanity's heart. Was Cain held accountable? Consider the below 2 passages:

Romans 5:13 NLT - "Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break."

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

Obviously, Cain sinned. The two passages, however, seem to clearly indicate that 1), Cain may not have been eternally charged with his Sin against Abel, but if He was, he would be held and given the chance to place Faith in Christ in order to be made "right" with God in [His] sight. So . . . this is a tricky concept to think about. I like your questioning!

"Or did God judge those under the moral (law) differently?"

The bottom line; the only way to be in a Right relationship with Christ . . . one MUST possess the Circumcision of Christ. It is physical circumcision having been instituted in the life of Abraham that reflects the Spiritual Circumcision that he had received, perhaps early on in his life, but FOR SURE in Genesis 17. The major element of Salvation hinges upon the Circumcision of Christ. If that "element" is not removed, Salvation is utterly impossible, for this act of Christ is what separates all people from either the Law of Moses or the Moral law that both expose sin. The Law of Moses exposes sin, and so doe the Moral Law, which is why Gary Ridgeway knew what he was doing. Jeffrey Dahmer knew what he was doing. Adolf Hitler knew what he was doing. They all knew that their actions of murder were wrong, thus they all hid their crimes. Therefore, Judgment is the same. Consider the below:

When Jesus said, "Get away from me you Lawbreakers," what is He really saying? He is saying that these people had not received the His Spiritual Circumcision. If they had, Jesus would not have referred to them as "lawbreakers" as they were not separated from the Law . . . the Holy Effect (and sub-point) of the Circumcision of Christ.

"the only way to obtain righteousness through animal sacrifice and obedience"

Yes, people were referred to as Righteous, Holy and Pure, but I don't think that animal Sacrifice accomplished these things. Animal Sacrifice does not remove the Curse of the Lord, thus, Righteousness, Purity, and Holiness are not possible. Jesus's death on the cross pays for the debt of sin, thus, it seems that we are to apply that same principle to animal sacrifice. The death of an animal did not Purify a person, but paid the debt of specific sin. Some translations refer to this as Expiation of Sin. Leviticus 1:4 from the Blessed Jewish Tanakh says this:

Tanakh: "He shall lay his hand upon the head of the burnt offering, that it may be acceptable in his behalf, in expiation for him."

Chapters four and five of Leviticus deal not only with unintentional sinning, but throughout these two chapters, we read of how animal sacrifice provides expiation, or, forgiveness of sins . . . paying the debt. But again, this does not equate to the removal of the Sinful Nature.

I love this thread . . . and I love your questions. I don't think that I necessarily taught you anything, for I get the feeling that you already know these things, and so this thread becomes an incredible opportunity for those who are still drinking Spiritual Milk to learn more of what is at the Holy Table of Christ . . . the Meat of the Gospel.

Thank you!!!
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
4,070
113
#88
I'm not sure that I follow your entire post, here, but let's see if what I offer makes sense

(I'm not sure that I follow your entire post, here, but let's see if what I offer makes sense.

The Moral Law:
This is what I have found to be the 3rd stage of the Law. The "Law," in my estimation is in four states:

1) Pre Law of Moses
2) Law of Moses (instituted beginning in Exo 20:21)
3) Moral Law was placed upon all of mankind (Possibly instituted in Neh 8:8-9)
4) Laws of the Spirit of Life (Vastly given on and after the day of Pentecost, described in Rom 8:2))

The way I always understood Biblical law was categorized in 4 different ways. You have the moral law, Ceremonial, Judicial, and Sub Compact laws. The Moral is described in Romans 2: 14-15. The moral laws are those that transcend time as in they are applicable in both the Old and New Testament. For example, it wall always be wrong to murder or shed innocent blood.

Romans 2
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

(Once the Moral Law was placed upon the hearts of all people, all humans became fully aware of what was right and wrong. No longer would the written Law need to be disclosed, for this disclosure was written upon all of humanity's heart. Was Cain held accountable? Consider the below 2 passages:

Romans 5:13 NLT - "Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break."

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

Obviously, Cain sinned. The two passages, however, seem to clearly indicate that 1), Cain may not have been eternally charged with his Sin against Abel, but if He was, he would be held and given the chance to place Faith in Christ in order to be made "right" with God in [His] sight. So . . . this is a tricky concept to think about. I like your questioning!)

It is tricky because in Romans 2 again we read all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law. Why? Possibly in verse 14 and 15 it was due to the moral law.

Romans 2
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

Possibly to persish doesn't mean Hell but the consequences of death. But then again the word perish is

622. apollumi
Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly​
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).
622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.​

Sounds worse than death lol.

("Or did God judge those under the moral (law) differently?")


1 Peter 3:19-20
New International Version

19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Here seems to be the only case were we are left with the idea that those before the flood may be judged differently. They may have been imprisoned and given the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ.

(The bottom line; the only way to be in a Right relationship with Christ . . . one MUST possess the Circumcision of Christ. It is physical circumcision having been instituted in the life of Abraham that reflects the Spiritual Circumcision that he had received, perhaps early on in his life, but FOR SURE in Genesis 17. The major element of Salvation hinges upon the Circumcision of Christ. If that "element" is not removed, Salvation is utterly impossible, for this act of Christ is what separates all people from either the Law of Moses or the Moral law that both expose sin. The Law of Moses exposes sin, and so doe the Moral Law, which is why Gary Ridgeway knew what he was doing. Jeffrey Dahmer knew what he was doing. Adolf Hitler knew what he was doing. They all knew that their actions of murder were wrong, thus they all hid their crimes. Therefore, Judgment is the same. Consider the below:

When Jesus said, "Get away from me you Lawbreakers," what is He really saying? He is saying that these people had not received the His Spiritual Circumcision. If they had, Jesus would not have referred to them as "lawbreakers" as they were not separated from the Law . . . the Holy Effect (and sub-point) of the Circumcision of Christ.

"the only way to obtain righteousness through animal sacrifice and obedience"

Yes, people were referred to as Righteous, Holy and Pure, but I don't think that animal Sacrifice accomplished these things. Animal Sacrifice does not remove the Curse of the Lord, thus, Righteousness, Purity, and Holiness are not possible. Jesus's death on the cross pays for the debt of sin, thus, it seems that we are to apply that same principle to animal sacrifice. The death of an animal did not Purify a person, but paid the debt of specific sin. Some translations refer to this as Expiation of Sin. Leviticus 1:4 from the Blessed Jewish Tanakh says this:

Tanakh: "He shall lay his hand upon the head of the burnt offering, that it may be acceptable in his behalf, in expiation for him."

Chapters four and five of Leviticus deal not only with unintentional sinning, but throughout these two chapters, we read of how animal sacrifice provides expiation, or, forgiveness of sins . . . paying the debt. But again, this does not equate to the removal of the Sinful Nature.)

I did a word search to find a few instances were God saw certain people as righteous.

Genesis 7:1
The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

Genesis 15:6
Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Deuteronomy 6:25
And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”

Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

James 2:25
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

Following the law for the saints of old led to righteousness. It was a heavy burden but the only way at the time for salvation. They followed the law in faith for who was to come. We have faith in who has came and will return again.

(I love this thread . . . and I love your questions. I don't think that I necessarily taught you anything, for I get the feeling that you already know these things, and so this thread becomes an incredible opportunity for those who are still drinking Spiritual Milk to learn more of what is at the Holy Table of Christ . . . the Meat of the Gospel.

Thank you!!!)

I'm always learning and know what I know until I learn something to adjust my understanding. I just try to make it simple or ask enough questions to break it down.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,037
2,511
113
#89
I see a contadiction here in less we find harmony. We know every Christian still battles with sin so is every Christian also of the Devil?

Hebrews 10:14-18
New International Version
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Romans 8:1-4
New International Version
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Paul wrote to many Churches who were still worldly and he chose to edify, correct, and encourage. He did warn of being led away.

I see the harmony not in legalistic works but in Jesus's sacrifice. He paid for the debt of sin, past and future. Once and for all. This is not hyper grace as I also believe one can fall away and eventually give in to apostasy. But it does show the power of God's grace.

There is a huge difference in someone being uncomfortable in sin versus someone who loves it.

Scripture says we are perfected only through Christ. In the time being we are being made holy, sanctification. We are physically perfected on the resurrection. Which is called glorification.
think of the things the New Testament says about sin as if it’s meant for this reason

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why you see things like this

“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


if like you say one is struggling with sin (not sure how that is going to help ) but let’s say they are living a sinful life and yet are saying “ it doesn’t matter how I act it’s not about what I do I’m already considered perfect I’m already saved “

that mind I’ll never overcome sin but if we accept what John is saying there do you see how anyone who believe is going to be hearing a real call to repentance ? How it’s meant to change thier mind thinking thier actions don’t matter ?

the New Testament is all about teaching sinners to repent and calling them into the righteousness of God

no ones perfect but see there is a hanger of mind and heart that has to happen in order to actually repent and get out of sins dominion over us believing the gospel is what changes how we think “sin is ok everyone does it it doesn’t affect my salvation “

that’s not true how we actually live whether serving sin or serving God matters. We have to become believers and not skeptics there isn’t a condtradiction it’s a call for believers to repent

John also says this

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So not that a struggle is happening externally we either have sinned or havent the battle is in he heart and mind before we act on sin .

but when we realize we have sinned and came short we have the atonement and Jesus Christ who says this deals with sin

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


See how of you oir the concepts together we need to recognize our sin , confess that we have sinned and repent ? It’s all a design on the New Testament to change our minds from what they were that thought “ everyone sins it’s ok Jesus died nothing more to say “

to “ sin isn’t something Gods children do , I need to walk in light of the gospel , and acknowledge and repent of my sins so Christ washes them away “

the New Testament is all about these two concepts

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sections like where John seems to be preaching sinless perfection needs to be received wi Thy what he was saying about confessing and repenting of sin to have the mind set all the way against sin but realize when we come up short and fail we’re not thrown away e just need to get real with God and acknolwedge what we’ve done wrong and have it washed away

it’s a lifetime of having our minds conformed to Christ and brother there is freedom from sin and that struggle when we find the rest in Christ and acknowledge the truth it doesn’t mean we’re now sinless and beyond fault it means he is changing us working in us through the gospel to achieve a real change and bring us to real repentance so that struggle becomes an after thought

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s in us working to bring us to repentance and righteousness. John was t writing to say anyone who makes a mistake is of the devil he’s telling Christians the reality of sin of we serve sin in our life we’re not going to receive salvation of we come to repentance believing the gospel we not going to keep serving sin willfully mistakes yes servants of sin no by no means is that leading to salvetion

it’s about this change

“But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:8-10, 12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to let our minds change through belief of the gospel

“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

rather than fight against sin by our Will we have to hold to and trust in the gospel to change us the new creation is t bound to sin anymore is the thing the old man is he struggles against sin the new man puts on Jesus and the gospel

we have to start agreeing with the New Testament word so we start thinking right about sin and righteousness of we believe right that sin is death , that we’re not free to keep sinning then our faith is going to make a change in our life
 
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#90
SHORT ANSWER:NO. Christ has removed all curses, by Himself becoming accursed for us while hanging on the cross.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph 1:3)

Christians are "in Christ".
Is it Biblical to conclude that James 5 would deal with all curses and sickness as a consequence of sin if truly performed in faith and repentance?

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
4,070
113
#91
think of the things the New Testament says about sin as if it’s meant for th in our life


think of the things the New Testament says about sin as if it’s meant for this reason



“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬



that’s why you see things like this



“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Jesus did indeed come to save the sinner but it is the sinner who is made righteous. This is why this is key Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not. When our faith is in Christ there is now no condemnation.




(if like you say one is struggling with sin (not sure how that is going to help ) but let’s say they are living a sinful life and yet are saying “ it doesn’t matter how I act it’s not about what I do I’m already considered perfect I’m already saved “)
This is hyper grace but that is not what I described. Sin can damage your relationship with God and can if prolonged lead to apostasy.



(that mind I’ll never overcome sin but if we accept what John is saying there do you see how anyone who believe is going to be hearing a real call to repentance ? How it’s meant to change thier mind thinking thier actions don’t matter?)
Actions do matter to a relationship. The Holy Spirit seals us into the day of salvation. God will not remove it. You are the only one that can break it by breaking your faith agreement or as scripture says your earnest agreement. If it was based only on works we would need to be perfect. This would mean you right now must be perfect and without sin.



(the New Testament is all about teaching sinners to repent and calling them into the righteousness of God)
Agree



(no ones perfect but see there is a hanger of mind and heart that has to happen in order to actually repent and get out of sins dominion over us believing the gospel is what changes how we think “sin is ok everyone does it it doesn’t affect my salvation “)

Not sure who thinks this way as sin doesn’t affect my salvation in less they are a Calvinist with hyper grace and unresisting grace. As a Christian we are no longer a slave to sin so we have a choice daily to pick up our cross as Luke describes.



(that’s not true how we actually live whether serving sin or serving God matters. We have to become believers and not skeptics there isn’t a condtradiction it’s a call for believers to repent)

I see no contradiction in less we are implying a Christian is immune from sin 100% of the time in the flesh.



(John also says this



“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬)
Amen! Thank God for the advocate who is righteous and in Him we are seen as righteous.



(So not that a struggle is happening externally we either have sinned or havent the battle is in he heart and mind before we act on sin .



but when we realize we have sinned and came short we have the atonement and Jesus Christ who says this deals with sin



“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.



If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. )
Amen! Are we in agreement or confusion lol?


(If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬





See how of you oir the concepts together we need to recognize our sin , confess that we have sinned and repent ? It’s all a design on the New Testament to change our minds from what they were that thought “ everyone sins it’s ok Jesus died nothing more to say “



to “ sin isn’t something Gods children do , I need to walk in light of the gospel , and acknowledge and repent of my sins so Christ washes them away “)
Technically Christ has already washed your sins away

1 Peter 3:18 ESV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Repentance has two elements. Saving or initial repent and continual repentance. Saving repentance is to acknowledge that we are sinners and need Jesus. At this point we are saved. Christ died once for sins and repentance after salvation involves our relationship. Has the Holy Spirit sacrifices us, we will be bothered by sin and we will be in a constant turning away from sin as we are made holy.

(the New Testament is all about these two concepts



“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:



And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬)
Agree.



(Sections like where John seems to be preaching sinless perfection needs to be received wi Thy what he was saying about confessing and repenting of sin to have the mind set all the way against sin but realize when we come up short and fail we’re not thrown away e just need to get real with God and acknolwedge what we’ve done wrong and have it washed away)
It is received in harmony with verses by John that say if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. John’s letter was speaking to Christians, already saved individuals. In harmony especially with all of the NT we only hear this type of language in a few verses by John. The sinless perfection is spiritually complete by Christ and physically complete once we die or gain our new glorified bodies. Grace is undeserving and it truly is life changing when we come to this area of faith.


(it’s a lifetime of having our minds conformed to Christ and brother there is freedom from sin and that struggle when we find the rest in Christ and acknowledge the truth it doesn’t mean we’re now sinless and beyond fault it means he is changing us working in us through the gospel to achieve a real change and bring us to real repentance so that struggle becomes an after thought)
I agree.



(“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”

‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬



He’s in us working to bring us to repentance and righteousness. John was t writing to say anyone who makes a mistake is of the devil he’s telling Christians the reality of sin of we serve sin in our life we’re not going to receive salvation of we come to repentance believing the gospel we not going to keep serving sin willfully mistakes yes servants of sin no by no means is that leading to salvetion



it’s about this change



“But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:



Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.



And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.”

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:8-10, 12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬



we have to let our minds change through belief of the gospel



“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;



And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;



And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬



rather than fight against sin by our Will we have to hold to and trust in the gospel to change us the new creation is t bound to sin anymore is the thing the old man is he struggles against sin the new man puts on Jesus and the gospel



we have to start agreeing with the New Testament word so we start thinking right about sin and righteousness of we believe right that sin is death , that we’re not free to keep sinning then our faith is going to make a change in our life)
I agree. Serving sin will only cause one to fall away and eventually Satan’s footholds lead to doubt, anger, lust, greed, etc that in these an individual is enticed into rejecting God’s only way of salvation. God ultimately knows the heart just as King David loved God but chose to commit adultery, murder, and tried to cover it up. David was still called a man after God’s own heart. He was led away but turned (repented) back to God and his relationship was mended.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,083
2,283
113
#92
I mostly agree but faith is not the same as belief by the ancient language. I explain this a lot. It makes a difference. The demons believe as in they know of Christ's power. But they do not hold faith in His power. Our salvation as scripture says is faith from first to last. There is action involved but the initial action is surrender as the work to be done is Holy Spirit guided.
Spoken like a true Christian. A Christian is saved by Christ and like it says in Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, To believe in Christ is not limited to belief in that Christ can forgive sins, demons know that. It is giving our sins to Christ with repentance and living for Him.

The Lord tells us of curses, it is true, but the Lord tells us curses harm us. The ultimate curse is sin. Christ gives us the way to take care of that--it is through true repentance.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
5,412
1,519
113
#93
All of those examples except the galations term bewitched which isn't the same as cursed is found in the OT.

Where in the NT can we argue they still operate in a Christian's life?
If we can agree that God is a never changing God.

I will bless those that bless you and curse him that curse you.

Oops still old testament 😏😏
 
Jan 12, 2022
798
174
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#94
Mount Ebal is as important and as relevant as Mount Gerizim. Two edges on the Sword. Two mountains where the Tongues were loosed, and the Scripts were written. When you see the words pronounced written on the mountains coming true then you will know that there is a God and you will also know which edge of the Sword of God they are under, whether it be the edge of the Sword which blesses them for obeying the voice of the Lord their God and fights their battles for them, or whether it be the edge of the Sword which curses them and is turned upon them because they have disobeyed the Lord their God. If you see the curses then say to them this; "Behold A Sword Cometh, acknowledge the great evil your people have done against the Lord your God and acknowledge his great power in cursing you." Perhaps it may be that they will hear it in their hearts and turn back to the Lord their God and flip the Scripts written in testimony against them and he is a powerful God full of mercy who can bless and restore just as he is a powerful God who can curse and destroy.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
6,644
3,069
113
#95
Spoken like a true Christian. A Christian is saved by Christ and like it says in Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, To believe in Christ is not limited to belief in that Christ can forgive sins, demons know that. It is giving our sins to Christ with repentance and living for Him.

The Lord tells us of curses, it is true, but the Lord tells us curses harm us. The ultimate curse is sin. Christ gives us the way to take care of that--it is through true repentance.
Keyword “training.”
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
4,070
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#96
If we can agree that God is a never changing God.

I will bless those that bless you and curse him that curse you.

Oops still old testament 😏😏
Never changing? His character never changes but how He operates has changed. The age of dispensations shows the way God changes in how He works in different periods of time.

Dispensation of Antechoatic age (dispensation of angels)

creative ages of 6 days creation of restored earth after Lucifer’s sin

Dispensation of Innocence

Dispensation of conscience

The flood of Noah

Dispensation of Human civil Government

Tower of Babel

Dispensation of promise

Egyptian Bondage

Dispensation of the Law

Jesus Christ died for sins of the whole world (cut off of 69 week of Daniel 9)

Dispensation of Grace

The rapture of the church

Judgement seat of Christ

MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB

The tribulation period the seventieth week of Daniel

The Dispensation of kingdom (the millennial Kingdom)

In this thread we see the curses in the Dispensation of the Law but I ask is it still active in the Dispensation of Grace.
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
93
11
8
#97
So much of the confusion surrounding the subject of curses is language. We have colloquialized the word curse to such a degree that the biblical understanding of the word is lost. Moreover, the Bible has colloquial examples of the word such as Psalm 102:8,

"All day long my enemies taunt me;
those who rail against me use my name as a curse."


The idea here is not that his enemies could cause a supernatural curse by invoking the psalmist’s name. Often, biblical references to curses are more in line with what we consider profanity. Sorting through the language is like slicing up a bucket of water.

When we look at God’s direct use of the word, it always suggests a judgement with divine supernatural effects imposed on individuals, groups, the earth, even a fig tree.

Are Christians subject to curses the same as God’s covenant people in the Old Testament? I have looked at this carefully for many years and can find no evidence that we are. That said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I’ve not concluded with complete certainty that we are in no way, shape, or form subject to His curses; however, I am about 98% sure we are not. We certainly are subject to His discipline. I think it wise not to fall into the colloquial language trap by using that word inappropriately. When we do, we inadvertently add to the confusion on this subject.

Through the years, I have been in countless dialogs on the subject, and many make claims about curses, but they can never substantiate them in the scripture. I am always astonished at how emotionally committed people are to their version of the subject; especially when it comes to generational curses. It is almost impossible to reason people out of their non-biblical ideas when they did not depend on a careful study of the scripture to gain their initial concepts.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,037
2,511
113
#98
Jesus did indeed come to save the sinner but it is the sinner who is made righteous. This is why this is key Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not. When our faith is in Christ there is now no condemnation.






This is hyper grace but that is not what I described. Sin can damage your relationship with God and can if prolonged lead to apostasy.





Actions do matter to a relationship. The Holy Spirit seals us into the day of salvation. God will not remove it. You are the only one that can break it by breaking your faith agreement or as scripture says your earnest agreement. If it was based only on works we would need to be perfect. This would mean you right now must be perfect and without sin.





Agree






Not sure who thinks this way as sin doesn’t affect my salvation in less they are a Calvinist with hyper grace and unresisting grace. As a Christian we are no longer a slave to sin so we have a choice daily to pick up our cross as Luke describes.






I see no contradiction in less we are implying a Christian is immune from sin 100% of the time in the flesh.





Amen! Thank God for the advocate who is righteous and in Him we are seen as righteous.





Amen! Are we in agreement or confusion lol?




Technically Christ has already washed your sins away

1 Peter 3:18 ESV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Repentance has two elements. Saving or initial repent and continual repentance. Saving repentance is to acknowledge that we are sinners and need Jesus. At this point we are saved. Christ died once for sins and repentance after salvation involves our relationship. Has the Holy Spirit sacrifices us, we will be bothered by sin and we will be in a constant turning away from sin as we are made holy.



Agree.





It is received in harmony with verses by John that say if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. John’s letter was speaking to Christians, already saved individuals. In harmony especially with all of the NT we only hear this type of language in a few verses by John. The sinless perfection is spiritually complete by Christ and physically complete once we die or gain our new glorified bodies. Grace is undeserving and it truly is life changing when we come to this area of faith.




I agree.





I agree. Serving sin will only cause one to fall away and eventually Satan’s footholds lead to doubt, anger, lust, greed, etc that in these an individual is enticed into rejecting God’s only way of salvation. God ultimately knows the heart just as King David loved God but chose to commit adultery, murder, and tried to cover it up. David was still called a man after God’s own heart. He was led away but turned (repented) back to God and his relationship was mended.
yeah brother the thing is we also have to repent that’s the very first thing Jesus said when he began preaching the gospel repentance is part of salvation

Repentance doesn’t mean you now are never capable of sinning again it means your mind is set against sin , but again if we realize we’ve done wrong later we have to repent


I do know people a lot of them I don’t think thier actions matter and they are already “sinless “ but that doesn’t jive with this stuff that’s throughout the New Testament


“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not as if God doesn’t see what we do we have to repent when we’ve done wrong and have to acknowledge our sin to God like David did that’s why God saw him hat way when he pretended he hadn’t sinned v when he finally confessed and acknowledged his sin

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we know we’ve done wrong in Gods sight what matters is will we acknowledge it and repent ? Or will we keep silence and pretend we didn’t sin or God doesn’t care ? The New Testament is about repentance and remission of sin

David understood this part and so should we

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭

I’m not a works of the cross alone person bro I believe Gods sees every deed as it is that’s why it’s about repentance in my view we have to also believe the gospel Jesus preached that calls us to repentance

“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭

repentance is key and so is believing the word of Christ that’s what brings us to repent when we get real with God and acknowledge our sins to him in repentance and turn towards the gospel that’s able to teach us what righteousness is

We need to accept that sin is death and poison for us because it is and we also need to grasp that Jesus said if we repent he will forgive our sins and wash them away
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
3,376
1,501
113
#99
Think about the parable of the soils...
Or the parable of the sower...
However you know the name...

Some people jump both feet and never look back (very blessed small, tiny percentage)
But some go but then get forgetful because of circumstances...
Others just reject it wholesale while not being hostile to believers.

Then others are just going to be hostile to believers.

All getting their various curses (or blessings) for their beliefs.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
910
365
63
As a believer our authority/power is very clear we have been given all authority/power over the enemy. I am freed from sin yet the word is clear if I sin I open the door to the enemy and GOD never allowed it nor wanted it to happen. Everything sin IS can come in to play when we sin. Sin still saved or not has a price in this world and its death.

Demons... you know its easy so easy to be free OT anyone that calls on the name of the lord SHALL BE delivered. Off the path? Just repent ask Him to put you back on it.. yeah HES GOD Hes your Father it is that easy.