Are some people destined for spiritual death/hell?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Hillary112

New member
Jun 29, 2018
2
0
1
#1
“Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?”
-Romans 9:21

In Paul’s comparison of God to a potter and humans as his clay, the verse looks as if God picks and chooses who is good/receives salvation and who is bad/goes to hell. Isnt this ironic, considering we have free will and we all are able to receive God’s grace? Please correct me if I misinterpreted the passage. Any response is appreciated 😊
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
#2
“Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?”
-Romans 9:21

In Paul’s comparison of God to a potter and humans as his clay, the verse looks as if God picks and chooses who is good/receives salvation and who is bad/goes to hell. Isnt this ironic, considering we have free will and we all are able to receive God’s grace? Please correct me if I misinterpreted the passage. Any response is appreciated 😊
Romans 9:21 is saying that God is the One who chooses to make some people who will honor Him and other who will dishonor Him.

An argument has arisen and there are two camps of thought about this verse.

A. One group believes that God looked into the future and saw those who would honor and dishonor Him and He called them the elect and the reprobate.

B. The other group believes that God created the elect with the ability to believe and thereby be saved, while the reprobate were created with no ability to believe so they are lost with no chance of salvation.

I'm in the B group, because we take God at His Word when He said that He is sovereign over all things and nothing can happen unless it is His will. So we believe that everything that has ever happened and will ever happen is all Gods will, we believe God is almighty so He would never allow a situation where something is done outside of His will.

The Group A. people believe that God created everything and just sat back and let it all unravel randomly, with no control over His creation. We believe the opposite, we believe He has full control of everything including who He chooses to save and who he will leave in their sin.

The A. group are called "Arminians" and the B. group are called "Calvinists" the B. group accept the scriptures 100% as they are. The others rely on their own interpretation, which ends up being something different to what the Bible says
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
1,715
113
#3
@post 2.
I must say that was very Interesting but how would GOD be just and fair If your description of group B Is on point?:confused:
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
#4
Romans 9:21 is saying that God is the One who chooses to make some people who will honor Him and other who will dishonor Him.

An argument has arisen and there are two camps of thought about this verse.

A. One group believes that God looked into the future and saw those who would honor and dishonor Him and He called them the elect and the reprobate.

B. The other group believes that God created the elect with the ability to believe and thereby be saved, while the reprobate were created with no ability to believe so they are lost with no chance of salvation.

I'm in the B group, because we take God at His Word when He said that He is sovereign over all things and nothing can happen unless it is His will. So we believe that everything that has ever happened and will ever happen is all Gods will, we believe God is almighty so He would never allow a situation where something is done outside of His will.

The Group A. people believe that God created everything and just sat back and let it all unravel randomly, with no control over His creation. We believe the opposite, we believe He has full control of everything including who He chooses to save and who he will leave in their sin.

The A. group are called "Arminians" and the B. group are called "Calvinists" the B. group accept the scriptures 100% as they are. The others rely on their own interpretation, which ends up being something different to what the Bible says
Danny, I may be reading you wrong, but would you clarify me on your choice of "B"? Are you saying that God created the elect with the ability to believe after their natural birth and before their spiritual birth. From reading your other post's I don't think that you are taking this stand, but had to make sure. I think I know how you will answer me. Thanks.