Are there modern-day apostles of Christ?

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Are there modern day Apostles of Christ? (see definition of the original poster)

  • Yes, there are modern day Apostles of Christ.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • No, there are no modern day Apostles of Christ.

    Votes: 14 87.5%
  • I don't know.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    16
Aug 12, 2019
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#1
OK..

here's the basic question for discussion.....are there modern day apostles of Christ?

I say NO.

Notice how I phrase the question.

I do not object to "apostles of the church". I object to folks claiming to be "apostles of Christ".

What's the difference? The word "apostle" means "sent one". There are missionaries sent out by church organizations and congregations on a continual basis. I do not deny that they COULD use the term "apostle" in a "little a" context.

However, it is a vain and bold claim to assert that you are one of the Apostles of Christ.

Yet, it happens all the time. Charismatics have created a self-affirmation membership club in relation to this. You can pay about $500 and be affirmed as a bona-fide Apostle in their organization. You even get a discount if your wife joins you as a female Apostle. There are many other such self-affirmation groups within professing Christianity today.

Todd Bentley was one such person named as an apostle, even though he left his wife and has been accused of homosexual advances upon various credible ministry partners. Shockingly, even though the guy utterly lacks credibility, charismatics continued to believe that he is an apostle, up until recently. In fact, somehow I think he will pull off some type of "repentance" that his gullible supporters will believe.

Why do I object to this?

I know the human heart and the vanity and pride that it is capable of. Baby Christians are especially susceptible to thinking that God is going to use them for some awesome purpose, such as being an Apostle or prophet. I expect that sort of behavior from baby Christians, and in fact I had such delusions myself, but I moved past it, just like a baby moves past the bottle sucking and diaper wearing stage.

Scripture has requirements for an Apostle that these individuals DO NOT MEET.

One, they needed to be a witness to the resurrected Christ.
Two, they needed to be chosen by Christ as an Apostle.
Three, they needed to be able to produce signs and wonders to affirm their Apostleship
.

The Scriptures used in regards to this are listed in this article:

https://thecripplegate.com/are-there-still-apostles-today/

Here are some:

Acts 1:22 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when whe was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”

Acts 10:39-41 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

1 Cor 9:1 9 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?

1 Cor 15:7-8 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

Mark 3:14 14 And he appointed twelve (whom he also named apostles) so that they might be with him and he might send them out to preach

Luke 6:13 13 And when day came, khe called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles:

Acts 1:2 2 until the day when che was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.

Acts 1:24 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen

Acts 10:41 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

Gal 1:1 1 Paul, an apostle—bnot from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

Matt 10: 10 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction. 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Acts 1:5-8 5 for hJohn baptized with water, hbut you will be baptized iwith2 the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Acts 2:43 43 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles.

Acts 4:33 33 And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 5:12 12 Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon’s Portico.

Acts 8:14 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,

2 Cor 12:12 12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.

Heb 2:3-4 3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Anyways, what's your thought? Are there modern day Apostles of Christ now? If so, would you care to name them?

Is their teaching biblical? Have they seen the risen Christ? Were they personally appointed by Christ? Did they produce signs and miracles to affirm their apostleship?

I don't think so. And, I believe those claiming to be an Apostles are dwelling in prideful and vain delusions that reflect a non-spiritual mind.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#2
The word, apostle, may be translated fully as "sent out." Manysince Jesus, including the Twelve, were sent out, have been being sent out, and are sent out by the Holy Spirit, which is essentially being sent out by Jesus, Yeshua

However there are no apostles sing eht Twelve who are of equal status in the Kingdom with them, not even the one called dPaul for the original Twelve have their names on the Twelve foundations of teh New Jerusalem.
 
Aug 12, 2019
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#3
Just so we are clear...as a member of the cult, i never thought I was going to be an apostle or prophet, but I certainly had an inflated opinion of myself, in regards to ministry opportunities.

I believe those claiming to be an apostles (like the cult leader) have a similarly inflated opinion of themselves, magnified many times over.

It is quite comical to see these proud peacocks strutting about making such claims.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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#5
...not even the one called Paul for the original Twelve have their names on the Twelve foundations of teh New Jerusalem.
Do you seriously believe that Judas Iscariot -- who was consigned to Hell -- would remain on those twelve foundation?

Paul replaced Judas, and indeed exceeded all the other apostles in what he accomplished.
 
Nov 19, 2019
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#6
Didn't vote.. well be one thing if you had went right to the word yet you didn't. Forgive me it seems this was about a group you personally don't like or agree with. You lump all together very unwise. And then talk about some guy thats not here can't defend/answer back.
 
Aug 12, 2019
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#7
Didn't vote.. well be one thing if you had went right to the word yet you didn't. Forgive me it seems this was about a group you personally don't like or agree with. You lump all together very unwise. And then talk about some guy thats not here can't defend/answer back.
Who specifically are you referring to?

If you are talking about Todd Bentley, the controversies concerning him have been continual. He has admitted that he sexually assaulted a boy as a young man, and it is a matter of public record that he had an affair with his secretary, divorced his wife and married her.

Last time I knew, being an elder required being above reproach, and being divorced due to an affair certainly causes one to be disqualified on that point.

Members of the charismatic community are not likely to criticize him, though, because they realize their own behavior is subject to being criticized...and their whole house of cards will come toppling down.

Because..Bentley was declared to be an apostle by the rest of the bigshots in the charismatic community...and that would endanger the entire empire.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#8
The word, apostle, may be translated fully as "sent out." Many since Jesus, including the Twelve, were sent out, have been being sent out, and are sent out by the Holy Spirit, which is essentially being sent out by Jesus, Yeshua

However there are no apostles sing the Twelve who are of equal status in the Kingdom with them, not even the one called Paul for the original Twelve have their names on the Twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem.
Including Judas? I would not think his name would be there at all.
 
May 29, 2013
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#9
OK..

here's the basic question for discussion.....are there modern day apostles of Christ?

I say NO.

Notice how I phrase the question.

I do not object to "apostles of the church". I object to folks claiming to be "apostles of Christ".

What's the difference? The word "apostle" means "sent one". There are missionaries sent out by church organizations and congregations on a continual basis. I do not deny that they COULD use the term "apostle" in a "little a" context.
Jesus is the only 'Apostle' with a capital A. That is the convention modern translations use.

I heard or read someone arguing that Paul was an apostle of Christ, but Barnabas, Silas, and Timothy were apostles of the churches. I pointed out from I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 that Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy were among the Thessalonians as 'apostles of Christ.'

Ephesians 4:11 says that He ascended on high and gave gifts unto men. One of the categories of gifts given is apostles. The twelve were apostles before Jesus ascended. The Spirit takes of what is Christ's and delivers it to the disciples, according to the book of John. The Spirit spoke and separated Barnabas and Saul to the work to which He had called them. Is it so far-fetched that Barnabas could have been an apostle of Christ? That he could have known He was? Is it so far-fetched to think that a modern missionary or other evangelistic church planter might know that the Lord has sent Him, that He is an apostle of Christ?

Wouldn't the apostles of the churches be like the ones who delivered money in II Corinthians? Barnabas and Saul also delivered money before the Spirit called them to the work mentioned in Acts 13.

However, it is a vain and bold claim to assert that you are one of the Apostles of Christ.
unless one is.

Yet, it happens all the time. Charismatics have created a self-affirmation membership club in relation to this. You can pay about $500 and be affirmed as a bona-fide Apostle in their organization. You even get a discount if your wife joins you as a female Apostle. There are many other such self-affirmation groups within professing Christianity today.
Not all Charismatics are into that, especially that organization you pay to be a member of. I agree there are an awful lot of people putting 'apostle' down as a title on name cards and is seems rather ridiculous, particularly when there isn't much resembling the ministry of the Biblical apostles in some of these people's ministries in terms of church planting, etc. I haven't read the Wagner books on it, but the ideas of what an apostle is don't seem to fit well with my understanding from reading scripture.

My understanding of this is roughly similar to Watchman Nee's understanding on the issue. The Assemblies of God has a similar stance.

If we do away with the apostolic ministry, then we have an ecclesiastical problem when it comes to the role of the missionary. If there is a missionary who perceives a call from God, is sent out by the church (which might involve the Spirit speaking), goes out, preaches and new churches are formed, what is his role vis a vis those churches? Does he have authority to appoint elders... like we see apostles doing with churches started through their ministry? Paul and his coworkers wrote in II Corinthians that they had a measure of rule that extended to the Corinthians because they had gone as far as the Corinthians with the Gospel... and they wanted to expand their measure by taking the gospel to the regions beyond them. Do missionaries who are called by God have a similar measure of rule?

If you say no because there are no apostles, then what are they? Elders? Did elders really go around and do that in scripture? I don't see it unless the elder in question was also an apostle. Did evangelists appoint elders? No, not unless the evangelist in question is also referred to as an apostle.

We can rely on extrabiblical ecclesiology, I suppose, instead of scripture. But that doesn't fit with some of our thinking about the role of scripture.

Scripture has requirements for an Apostle that these individuals DO NOT MEET.


One, they needed to be a witness to the resurrected Christ.
Two, they needed to be chosen by Christ as an Apostle.
Three, they needed to be able to produce signs and wonders to affirm their Apostleship.
Your scriptures do not support your first two points.

The Scriptures used in regards to this are listed
Acts 1:22 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when whe was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
Paul does not fit this qualification. This is a qualification to replace Judas as one of the twelve, not to fit into a broader category of 'apostles' of which Paul was a part, and so was Barnabas (Acts 14:4;14)

Acts 10:39-41 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
This passage does not say anything about a requirement to be an apostle.

1 Cor 9:1 9 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?
How do you get from this that seeing Jesus is a requirement to being an apostle. Being free, an apostle, and the Corinthians being his workmanship are arguments for Paul's right to be materially supported by them, a right he would not avail himself of.

He does not say seeing Jesus was a requirement for being an apostle. Was being free a requirement for being an apostle? When Peter and John were imprisoned did they lose their apostleship? If John were legally a slave on Patmos working in the mines there, wasn't he still an apostle?

Responses in next two posts also.
 
May 29, 2013
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#10
1 Cor 15:7-8 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
Born out of due time means born too early, not born too late. It is the word for a premature baby. Premature babies were unlikely to survive. Paul somehow survived. This is not evidence that he was born a decade late and still got to be an apostle, which some people read into the KJV wording.

If Jesus really did literally appear to Paul last of all in history, Barnabas was apparently sent out as an apostle after Paul saw Jesus, assuming Acts 13 was his sending. If Acts is chronological, then Saul/Paul saw Jesus before the apostles sent Barnabas to Antioch, also. He went to seek out a believing Saul in Acts 11, too.

If no one saw Jesus after Saul/Paul, then we see Silas and Timothy being called apostles, too, so Timothy wouldn't have seen Jesus, but I Thessalonians 2 still refers to 'we' as 'apostles of Christ.'

And it does not make sense to argue that Paul is saying he is the last person ever to see Jesus before the second coming since John saw Jesus again in a spiritual experience in Revelation.
 
May 29, 2013
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#11
Mark 3:14 14 And he appointed twelve (whom he also named apostles) so that they might be with him and he might send them out to preach

Luke 6:13 13 And when day came, khe called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles:

Acts 1:2 2 until the day when che was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.

Acts 1:24 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen

Acts 10:41 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
All good verses, except for those footnote letters you cut and pasted with the verses. Paul and Barnabas were sent as apostles later, and they weren't a part of the twelve. Paul implicitely acknowledges he wasn't a part of the twelve in I Corinthians 15 since he says Jesus appeared to the twelve before appearing to him, not the eleven. Matthias was a witness of the resurrection. Judas was apparently dead.

Gal 1:1 1 Paul, an apostle—bnot from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—


Matt 10: 10 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction. 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Okay, none of this means Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, or others the Lord sends were not or cannot be apostles.

Acts 1:5-8 5 for hJohn baptized with water, hbut you will be baptized iwith2 the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Acts 2:43 43 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles.

Acts 4:33 33 And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 5:12 12 Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon’s Portico.


Acts 8:14 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,

2 Cor 12:12 12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.
I'm guessing the reason you are posting most of these verses is the association of signs and wonders with apostles? II Corinthians 12:12 is usually used for this, since most of the other verses refer to the twelve doing such things. Many Charismatics who believe in the apostolic ministry would think along the lines of their doing signs and wonders, too.

I have read a different interpretation of II Corinthians 12:12. I am thinking it was in a book by John White. But the argument was that the verses talks about Paul doing the signs of an apostle with signs, etc. That the first 'signs' is different from the 'signs and wonders' signs, but refers to Paul enduring the types of suffering described in the passage.

I had a few conversations with a missionary who probably baptized thousands of people. He and his wife were at one missions station on one side of the territory of the Dani tribe, a stone-age tribe at the time,a people-group of 200,000 people, the largest ethnic group of what is now West Papua. On the other side was a Presbyterian missionary. In the '60's, there was a mass people movement to Christ. The people-group is majority professing Christian now. He must have baptized thousands, or else, discipled others who did most of the baptizing. In the words of a missionary friend of mine, to hear him tell it, he hardly wasn't even there. He didn't brag. He has described the denomination founded as 'Baptistic.' I asked him if the Lord did any miracles. He mentioned a village that hid from him in their huts when he went to evangellized who said their gods were providing for them just fine, pointing to their lush garden. Then a mudslide pulled the garden, almost to the border line of it, down into the river. They asked him to come tell him their message. Some things about his ministry seemed rather apostolic, but he didn't mention signs and wonders. I am not completely convinced apostles must do signs and wonders, but I lean that way.

I heard about Jim Yost evangelizing a tribe, the Sawe, I think, and the tribe hearing the Gospel but not responding until he prayed for a child that had drowned and had been underwater for a long time, and then he prayed and the boy rose from the dead. After that, family groups were converted until the tribe is 80% Christian. I found a link to a testimony of it here:
.

Historically 'apostle' was used in reference to certain individuals who introduced the Gospel to regions, countries, people groups or else were influential in their conversion, like Gregory apostle of the Armenians, Cyril and Methodius apostles to the Slavs, Patrick, apostle of Ireland, Oscar/Angsar apostle of the north.

I don't know of miracles attributed Cyril and Methodius or Angsar, but Gregory is said to have cast a demon out of King Trdat. Jesus called casting out demons in His name a miracle/sign. Many miracles (healings and resurrections) are attributed to St. Patrick, and he wrote about some of his own visions and supernatural experiences in his Confessions.
 
Jul 2, 2011
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#13
Do you seriously believe that Judas Iscariot -- who was consigned to Hell -- would remain on those twelve foundation?

Paul replaced Judas, and indeed exceeded all the other apostles in what he accomplished.
Where ddid yo ever come up with this idea? The eleven remaining Apostles drew lots asking the kFather to show them who shoul replace Judas. The only one who calls Paul an apostle is Paul, and he is but not one of the twelve.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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#14
Where ddid yo ever come up with this idea? The eleven remaining Apostles drew lots asking the kFather to show them who shoul replace Judas. The only one who calls Paul an apostle is Paul, and he is but not one of the twelve.
Paul is the one Jesus chose. Jesus had instructed the others to wait, not to select someone to replace Judas...
 
Jul 2, 2011
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#15
This particular prophecy is in Psalm 109, talking about Judas and his betrayal, and finally his replacement.

Help Me, O Lord My God
Psa 109:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;
Psa 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psa 109:3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
Psa 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
Psa 109:8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Psa 109:9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Psa 109:10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Psa 109:11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
Psa 109:12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
Psa 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Psa 109:14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Psa 109:15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
Psa 109:16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
Psa 109:17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.
Psa 109:18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.
Psa 109:19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.
Psa 109:20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.
Psa 109:21 But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name's sake: because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me.
Psa 109:22 For I am poor and needy, and my heart is wounded within me.
Psa 109:23 I am gone like the shadow when it declineth: I am tossed up and down as the locust.
Psa 109:24 My knees are weak through fasting; and my flesh faileth of fatness.
Psa 109:25 I became also a reproach unto them: when they looked upon me they shaked their heads.
Psa 109:26 Help me, O LORD my God: O save me according to thy mercy:
Psa 109:27 That they may know that this is thy hand; that thou, LORD, hast done it.
Psa 109:28 Let them curse, but bless thou: when they arise, let them be ashamed; but let thy servant rejoice.
Psa 109:29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.
Psa 109:30 I will greatly praise the LORD with my mouth; yea, I will praise him among the multitude.
Psa 109:31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those that condemn his soul.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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#16
The only one who calls Paul an apostle is Paul, and he is but not one of the twelve.
And where did you come up with this idea since it is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ who elected and appointed Paul to be his outstanding apostle? You do not even hear of Mathias again. Paul was one of the twelve BEFORE HE WAS BORN. Check out your Bible.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#17
It is in Jeremiah, Psalms and Acts. The remaining Eleven prayed god choose the replacement of Judas, and it turned out to be Mattais by lot.
Drawing lots was the manner in which Jews would assure the outcome was from God.

Also, Mattias was with the Apostles from the beginning of Jesus, Yeshua's mission, and he witnessed Him resurrected making him well educated in all of what our Lord gave to us to understand and dto live by.

Please, show where Paul is foretold in the OT. It is not in the prophecies cited..... I will not tell you "Wrong" as I have seen many do here, but I am quite satisfied with the understanding I have had of ths since the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#18
Do we have Apostles? Yes. Are they legitimate? NO.

Jer 31:
31“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to d them, e
declares the Lord.

33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
 
May 29, 2013
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#20
Where ddid yo ever come up with this idea? The eleven remaining Apostles drew lots asking the kFather to show them who shoul replace Judas. The only one who calls Paul an apostle is Paul, and he is but not one of the twelve.
Luke calls Paul and Barnabas apostles.