Are we seeing "the great falling away"?

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Sep 8, 2021
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#1
I am curious to know what others think we are seeing in today's societies. With lawlessness on the rise and with this pandemic, are we now seeing the great falling away?
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,365
444
83
#2
Has the man of sin appeared yet?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
4,299
2,108
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mywebsite.us
#3
Has the man of sin appeared yet?
Don't be snotty... :poop:

The verse is worded in such a way as to allow for the falling away to occur first - or, at least begin to occur first - before the man of sin is revealed.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
4,299
2,108
113
mywebsite.us
#4
I am curious to know what others think we are seeing in today's societies. With lawlessness on the rise and with this pandemic, are we now seeing the great falling away?
It could easily be said that we have been seeing it now for decades...
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,059
5,061
113
#5
That falling away began with apostasy. Apostasy began before our Savior Ascended, or were there not false teachers from the beginning?
The denominations differ in name and doctrine because they do not agree with each other, ergo they are not in sync with our Father.
Go always in the Spirit received from our Lord, trusting Him ony and you will never go wrong.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,940
960
113
#6
I am curious to know what others think we are seeing in today's societies. With lawlessness on the rise and with this pandemic, are we now seeing the great falling away?

This is just a guess, don't know for sure, but I think the great falling away happens, when people realize that the pre-tribulation rapture never happens. When many believers find out that tough times are ahead, than the temptation will be there to fall away from the faith.

Right now the Jesuit pope that leads the Catholic church is urging leaders to join his concordat, that makes a stand on climate change, and further leads people to keep the Sunday Sabbath to save the earth. Another guess is when you see the head of the vatican take on a more political role, this could also lead to the great falling away. Many people might be lead astray by this man, especially since things are a little crazy right now.

Joe Biden and 6 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices are Catholic, so the power structure is there to make Catholicism a political power in the U.S.A.. Not to mention all the devoted Catholics in America.

Prince Charles of Wales who was written about in Tim Cohen's book, The anti-christ and a cup of Tea, could lead many astray also. The book speculates that the Prince Charles is the anti-christ and maybe the person who has enough influence and political power to deceive many. The British Royalty is suppose to be the head of the English Church (protestant), while the jesuit pope is head of the Catholic church.

Probably the mark of the beast will be the easiest sign of the great falling away. When people are starving, being bombarded with an easy living, when all they have to do is get the new world order tattoo, so they can buy and sell; Than it will be easy to see the great falling away, until than just be aware of what's going on.

These are just possible scenarios that could happen, not saying these things are a for sure thing.
 
Sep 8, 2021
30
30
18
#7
This is just a guess, don't know for sure, but I think the great falling away happens, when people realize that the pre-tribulation rapture never happens. When many believers find out that tough times are ahead, than the temptation will be there to fall away from the faith.

Right now the Jesuit pope that leads the Catholic church is urging leaders to join his concordat, that makes a stand on climate change, and further leads people to keep the Sunday Sabbath to save the earth. Another guess is when you see the head of the vatican take on a more political role, this could also lead to the great falling away. Many people might be lead astray by this man, especially since things are a little crazy right now.

Joe Biden and 6 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices are Catholic, so the power structure is there to make Catholicism a political power in the U.S.A.. Not to mention all the devoted Catholics in America.

Prince Charles of Wales who was written about in Tim Cohen's book, The anti-christ and a cup of Tea, could lead many astray also. The book speculates that the Prince Charles is the anti-christ and maybe the person who has enough influence and political power to deceive many. The British Royalty is suppose to be the head of the English Church (protestant), while the jesuit pope is head of the Catholic church.

Probably the mark of the beast will be the easiest sign of the great falling away. When people are starving, being bombarded with an easy living, when all they have to do is get the new world order tattoo, so they can buy and sell; Than it will be easy to see the great falling away, until than just be aware of what's going on.

These are just possible scenarios that could happen, not saying these things are a for sure thing.
 
Sep 8, 2021
30
30
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#8
interesting! I did not know that 6/9 supreme court judges were catholic.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,197
600
113
#9
The Apostasy Paul specifically spoke about has not yet happened.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist! Claiming to be God causes the Apostasy or departing from the Christian faith.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is his appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the AC or false christ.


So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.

Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God. I believe many Christians will think he is Jesus Christ and won't realize they committed Apostasy.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

Remember Christ's warning:


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


There will come a time when people will believe Jesus has returned but it will be a false Christ.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Here the Apostasy is said to happen in the "latter times" as opposed to over a long span of time. This places it within the tribulation which also is a certain period of time just before the second coming.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


If I may put it in my own words:


Let no man deceive you by any means!

The return of Jesus Christ shall not come until there is a falling away from Him by those who were once Christians.

After that great defection to another Christ, the sinful man who claimed to be God will be uncovered and exposed as having been the son of perdition all along. This happens when the true Christ returns!

This sinful man who claimed to be God but was actually the son of perdition in disguise who opposed and exalted himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sat in the temple of God, shewing himself that he was God. He was worshiped as God and that's how he caused the great falling away.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,625
7,713
113
#10
I am curious to know what others think we are seeing in today's societies. With lawlessness on the rise and with this pandemic, are we now seeing the great falling away?
The great falling away would primarily apply to Christendom. A departure from the true and full Gospel as well as Bible truth.

The great falling away (apostasia or apostasy) began in the 19th century with attacks against the Bible and its doctrines. Since then it has simply intensified. Churches, Bible colleges, and seminaries which once stood firmly on the Word of God have compromised their positions step by step. Many well-know evangelists, pastors, and teachers have gone into error. As a result there are very few churches which are holding fast to the faith once delivered to the saints.

At the same time there is no question that lawlessness has risen steeply over the last few years. Law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and DHS have now become the criminals. In America it began with the start of traitor Barack Obama's presidency, and it is now full-blown under Marxist Joseph Biden. Every government department, the judicial system, and even the military have all been corrupted and compromised. Treason and government thuggery have become normal. And every Western country (democracies with constitutions) has become a COVID tyranny. The Chinese Communist Party is simply delighted, since China now calls the shots.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
1,332
917
113
#11
I am curious to know what others think we are seeing in today's societies. With lawlessness on the rise and with this pandemic, are we now seeing the great falling away?
Yes. It started in the 60's with the "Woodstock Generation". The "Jesus movement" sort of fizzled out. The falling away gathered pace in the late 70's. God was speaking to the church but not many were listening. There was great potential and many were saved in that time, including me. But the church failed to heed God's word and the decline began. It's gathered pace since. Sometimes I watch "worship" services with the sound turned off. There is little difference between the crowd at a secular rock concert and the people in the church.

At the other end of the spectrum, traditional churches are shriveling up. The congregation ages and no one comes to replace the ones that pass away. The young people have all gone to the more active places.

Obviously there are exceptions. Some fellowships are truly alive in Christ and are a faithful expression of what Church should be. And we only see what happens in the Western world.

Where to from here? I don't know. I do remind myself often that the Lord Jesus is building His church and He cannot fail. I would not be surprised if it is the church in China that puts the West to shame. They've endured and overcome communist repression since 1948 and persecution before that time also.
 
Sep 8, 2021
30
30
18
#12
Yes. It started in the 60's with the "Woodstock Generation". The "Jesus movement" sort of fizzled out. The falling away gathered pace in the late 70's. God was speaking to the church but not many were listening. There was great potential and many were saved in that time, including me. But the church failed to heed God's word and the decline began. It's gathered pace since. Sometimes I watch "worship" services with the sound turned off. There is little difference between the crowd at a secular rock concert and the people in the church.

At the other end of the spectrum, traditional churches are shriveling up. The congregation ages and no one comes to replace the ones that pass away. The young people have all gone to the more active places.

Obviously there are exceptions. Some fellowships are truly alive in Christ and are a faithful expression of what Church should be. And we only see what happens in the Western world.

Where to from here? I don't know. I do remind myself often that the Lord Jesus is building His church and He cannot fail. I would not be surprised if it is the church in China that puts the West to shame. They've endured and overcome communist repression since 1948 and persecution before that time also.
yeah its sad that the elders of the church buildings are fading away and not many young ones are taking their place. Thanks for your response God bless you
 
Sep 8, 2021
30
30
18
#13
The great falling away would primarily apply to Christendom. A departure from the true and full Gospel as well as Bible truth.

The great falling away (apostasia or apostasy) began in the 19th century with attacks against the Bible and its doctrines. Since then it has simply intensified. Churches, Bible colleges, and seminaries which once stood firmly on the Word of God have compromised their positions step by step. Many well-know evangelists, pastors, and teachers have gone into error. As a result there are very few churches which are holding fast to the faith once delivered to the saints.

At the same time there is no question that lawlessness has risen steeply over the last few years. Law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and DHS have now become the criminals. In America it began with the start of traitor Barack Obama's presidency, and it is now full-blown under Marxist Joseph Biden. Every government department, the judicial system, and even the military have all been corrupted and compromised. Treason and government thuggery have become normal. And every Western country (democracies with constitutions) has become a COVID tyranny. The Chinese Communist Party is simply delighted, since China now calls the shots.
With all that said......Do you see God bringing about another revival here in America through these tough times?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,625
7,713
113
#14
With all that said......Do you see God bringing about another revival here in America through these tough times?
No there will be no revival as many suggest. Revival is preceded by repentance, and that is in short supply. See the books of Ezra and Nehemiah (a single book in the Hebrew Bible).
 
Sep 8, 2021
30
30
18
#15
The Apostasy Paul specifically spoke about has not yet happened.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist! Claiming to be God causes the Apostasy or departing from the Christian faith.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is his appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the AC or false christ.


So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.

Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God. I believe many Christians will think he is Jesus Christ and won't realize they committed Apostasy.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

Remember Christ's warning:


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


There will come a time when people will believe Jesus has returned but it will be a false Christ.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Here the Apostasy is said to happen in the "latter times" as opposed to over a long span of time. This places it within the tribulation which also is a certain period of time just before the second coming.


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


If I may put it in my own words:


Let no man deceive you by any means!

The return of Jesus Christ shall not come until there is a falling away from Him by those who were once Christians.

After that great defection to another Christ, the sinful man who claimed to be God will be uncovered and exposed as having been the son of perdition all along. This happens when the true Christ returns!

This sinful man who claimed to be God but was actually the son of perdition in disguise who opposed and exalted himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sat in the temple of God, shewing himself that he was God. He was worshiped as God and that's how he caused the great falling away.
I read about 1/8 of what you wrote and had to stop to ask you some questions before I can return to your response....
1} did you mean to start out your reply with calling Paul an apostasy?
2} did you mean to actually state that Paul "accidentally" started a whole doctrine?

If so my last question would be......... Do you not believe that Paul was appointed and anointed by God
 
Sep 8, 2021
30
30
18
#16
No there will be no revival as many suggest. Revival is preceded by repentance, and that is in short supply. See the books of Ezra and Nehemiah (a single book in the Hebrew Bible).
My dad has been telling me that revival starts with self and that its repentance and submission to God. I agree fully. Its sad to see that the body of Christ is getting smaller
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,197
600
113
#19
2} did you mean to actually state that Paul "accidentally" started a whole doctrine?

It was people that misunderstood his other letter/writings that began the pretrib concept. It wasn't his fault but it was his first letter that the pretrib doctrine came from.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,060
1,899
113
#20
That falling away began with apostasy. Apostasy began before our Savior Ascended, or were there not false teachers from the beginning?
The denominations differ in name and doctrine because they do not agree with each other, ergo they are not in sync with our Father.
Go always in the Spirit received from our Lord, trusting Him ony and you will never go wrong.
As I study the church of the apostles of the first 300 years after
Christ and study how and why it changed when Constantine took charge of it as he had taken charge of Rome, I think it was the beginning of the falling away.

They thought of faith in Christ as faith is everything he said, and to them faith included how they acted. They carefully separated themselves from what was of the world. Today our media is instrumental in even leading people of God.

Demons lead the world, the holy spirit leads the kingdom of God. We ask daily that the kingdom rule the earth, but listen to the world. "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven".