Are women allowed to Preach?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lytee

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2016
4
0
0
#1
I just received the question from one of my friends, What is the best explanation to this?

1Ti 2:11-14
(11) Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively.
(12) I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result.

Is there a mixup of the Jewish culture and christianity?
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
61
0
#2
I just received the question from one of my friends, What is the best explanation to this?

1Ti 2:11-14
(11) Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively.
(12) I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result.

Is there a mixup of the Jewish culture and christianity?

Paul is speaking about the order designated in marriage and the context is that of a wife subverting authority over a man, not teaching in general. Look up the Greek word used for woman, for it pertains to a wife.

There is nothing wrong with a woman teaching.

It is also important to be wary of a focus upon the letter lacking a context of the spirit. The letter can kill yet the spirit brings life. If we walk according to the spirit by a faith that works by love, our hearts yielded to God, then our yolk is light and we will not get caught up easily in deceptions expounded by many who misrepresent the words of Paul and of the other scriptures.
 
Last edited:

Lytee

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2016
4
0
0
#3
I am not objecting but would just like to get more clarity...

I came across this earlier in relation to your response. Is this author in line?

A third objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8–10. Are onlyhusbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9–10)? Of course not. Verses 8–10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11–14.
Women pastors / preachers? Can a woman be a pastor or preacher?
 

yoninah

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2016
182
3
0
#4
I just received the question from one of my friends, What is the best explanation to this? 1Ti 2:11-14
Unfortunately, coming to *difficult* or *misunderstood* passages without first looking at what's gone on before has always been a problem. To understand what the passage *can't* mean, you need to start at Gen 1:1 and look at women all the way through Scripture.

When you get to this passage, there are certain things it *can't* mean that many have imposed upon the text. There's a lengthy exposition of the role of women here but it does cover from 'first to last'. There is a section on the *problem* NT passages, though, one of which is this one.

As for your direct question in the subject line - then, yes. The problem is not that both men and women are allowed to preach - the problem seems to me to have generally been that it's the person who has the voice of God who should be speaking and that they aren't always the one who is :).
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,401
0
#5
Here is a teaching on the subject that shows 1 Timothy 2 in it's cultural setting of the day they lived in when Paul was addressing Timothy..



[video]http://whchurch.org/blog/9737/twisted-scripture-1-timothy-212[/video]
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,925
141
63
#6
Unfortunately, coming to *difficult* or *misunderstood* passages without first looking at what's gone on before has always been a problem. To understand what the passage *can't* mean, you need to start at Gen 1:1 and look at women all the way through Scripture.

When you get to this passage, there are certain things it *can't* mean that many have imposed upon the text. There's a lengthy exposition of the role of women here but it does cover from 'first to last'. There is a section on the *problem* NT passages, though, one of which is this one.

As for your direct question in the subject line - then, yes. The problem is not that both men and women are allowed to preach - the problem seems to me to have generally been that it's the person who has the voice of God who should be speaking and that they aren't always the one who is :).

No, to the question. Chapter 3 goes more into the office of a bishop or pastor given to a man. But the word would also instruct older women to teach younger women in Titus 2.

In 1 Corinthians 14:34, or as Trump would say, One Corinthians 14:34 says, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." The word of God has set the order and conduct in the church.
 
C

coby

Guest
#7
Men sat at the right and women on the left or the other way around with a thing between them to seperate them, so if a wife wanted to know what he meant and ask her husband it was quite disturbing, so they had to do that at home.
 

yoninah

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2016
182
3
0
#8
if a wife wanted to know what he meant and ask her husband it was quite disturbing
It was probably only disturbing because the husband didn't know what he meant either.
I'm joking! I'm joking!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
119
63
#9
I just received the question from one of my friends, What is the best explanation to this?

1Ti 2:11-14
(11) Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively.
(12) I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result.

Is there a mixup of the Jewish culture and christianity?
in my view the scripture means 'teach authoritatively'. When there was no new testament and the teaching had to be given from the Old Testament plus oral tradition it was seen as important that authoritative teaching was from the males, who were 'not deceived'. Thus Jesus Apostles were all males. Once the new Testament was available women could teach from it because there was a guard against incorrect teaching i.e. the Scriptures.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,370
924
113
#10
There are a lot of men who should not endeavor to preach either because they are not called of God to preach.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
I just received the question from one of my friends, What is the best explanation to this?

1Ti 2:11-14
(11) Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively.
(12) I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result.

Is there a mixup of the Jewish culture and christianity?
In Malawi? I don't know. They are in the US, Canada, and the UK. (That's it for countries I know that allow women to preach, although I bet there are more.)

Should they preach? That can of worms is too big for me to jump in that debate, but I'll tell you what I think.

I don't think women should preach to men or to women older than they are. We're all supposed to be evangelizing though. (Since youre new, you might not get this yet. If a person's user name is blue, that person is a guy. If it's pink, she's a gal. So, I'm saying that as a woman who did the research for my own use. I'm simply not going to be the person who gets to pass judgement on if women preach anyway. I won't sit under a woman teacher, unless she is teaching women though.)
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,702
246
0
#12
In His great and glorious wisdom, Jesus made women the first evangelists to declare His Resurrection. If women are good enough for Jesus then they're good enough for me. That said however, I prefer to listen to Black women preachers, for sure.
 

yoninah

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2016
182
3
0
#13
If women are good enough for Jesus then they're good enough for me.
Perhaps we should be more spiritual than that and disagree with God?
Whaddya think :)?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,370
924
113
#14
In His great and glorious wisdom, Jesus made women the first evangelists to declare His Resurrection. If women are good enough for Jesus then they're good enough for me. That said however, I prefer to listen to Black women preachers, for sure.
Every believer is called to be a witness for Christ. God has called men to be preachers and evangelists and they are a special gift to the church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
3,857
69
48
#15
The key to understanding the bible, aside from the obvious, i.e., the Spirit, is to study it in a exegetic manner, which includes the critical discipline of textual criticism, which is the study of historical and cultural backgrounds for the author, the context of the text, and the original intended audience.
So when the poster Grace7x777 writes "...the cultural setting of the day...", he or she could not be more on the money.
I did not yet see the video he or she linked, but I will, and I suspect it is going to speak about, in an expanded form, what I am writing here.

When this was written, woman were not even permitted to attend services.
The writer is actually suggesting a upgrade in woman's equality to men, in the culture they were living in.

If we just do even a quick memory study of the bible, Ruth, and Ester, and Rahab quickly come to mind as woman who are mentioned in a manner who have made important contributions to the history.
Jesus allowed Mary (not his mother, but the Mary that is sometimes reputed to have been a prostitute) to tag along with Him and His disciples. That was unheard of that day.
Jesus also permitted, with joy, the woman, I forgot her name (Mary too) to pour the spikenard oil and wipe it on His feet with her hair. Again, that was unheard in that culture. No Pharisee would have ever allowed that.

Of course Mary would be the ultimate example of God's respect for woman, through the birth of pregnancy and birth of Jesus.
God could have simply created Jesus from however or whatever pleased Him, but obviously He did through a woman.

Many feminists read these verses, and others, such as wives submit to your husbands, weaker vassal, your body is not your own, etc., and come to the conclusion that the bible is anti woman rights.
We Christians realize, through study and prayer and fellowship, that none of the writings above, submit, etc., are in any way hostile to a woman's equality with men.
The weaker vassal means either physically, and/or that generally speaking, woman are more sensitive then men, so err on the side of love in relationships. Body is not your own means don't use sex as a tool to get something you want, just as men are not to use money, or physical intimidation as a way to get what they want.
Submit is something we all need to do, not just wives to husbands, and husbands to wives, and all of us to God. Submit is referring to through the Spirit.
But again, the unsaved, the rebellious deviants of the world, can not see this. How can they? It is a mystery to them, it confounds them. The bible says this would be so.
This is why we are not of this world, only in in it.

Sadly, many of them have no real understanding or insight into the bible, and just use it as a means to a end.
My sister-in-law, wonderful person that she is does this.
And she has a masters degree in English, is a teacher. I have learned long ago, while I respect education, and believe that it is a wonderful and even crucial skill set to have, it can be over rated at times when evaluating a person's openness to new ideas, and insight and ability to think.
My sister-in-law has what I call a Swiss cheese bible mentality.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
3,857
69
48
#16
So if it wasn't obvious by my reply, yes, I certainly believe woman can preach, and lead a church.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
3,857
69
48
#17
In His great and glorious wisdom, Jesus made women the first evangelists to declare His Resurrection. If women are good enough for Jesus then they're good enough for me. That said however, I prefer to listen to Black women preachers, for sure.
Some of those black woman preachers can really stir it up, that's for sure.
 

yoninah

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2016
182
3
0
#18
So if it wasn't obvious by my reply, yes, I certainly believe woman can preach, and lead a church.
As I've said above, our problem with this passage is we normally strip the context of the Bible away from it and think that we can interpret it independently of the Bible. As you've pointed out, the Bible is full of instructions about women - of times where women led, for example (Deborah), or even in the Law where a women became independent of men and could not have her authority revoked.

I also went back and noted that the original post omitted the concluding verse - that women will be saved through bearing children. Another 'tricky' verse if allowed to sit in isolation.

A full exposition of the function and role of women is required, not some soundbites (although your post is certainly not a soundbite!) - again, I direct everyone's attention to www.arlev.co.uk/col026.htm - a study 'from start to finish' about women that puts the Timothy passage *in context*.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
22,148
520
113
#19
A full exposition of the function and role of women is required, not some soundbites (although your post is certainly not a soundbite!) - again, I direct everyone's attention towww.arlev.co.uk/col026.htm - a study 'from start to finish' about women that puts the Timothy passage *in context*.



I'm sure it is a good study source...........however I have yet to find a study source that can put Scripture in context better than the Word of God. Scripture supports Scripture..........ALL Scripture is the best source for "context."

:)
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
3,857
69
48
#20
"(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result."

I would only say it was God's good pleasure to make man first, so what?
The bible says man was created in God's image. Does that mean males, or both male and female?
And if God created only man in his image, in the big picture, does it really matter that much?
Does God think less of woman, or love woman less if He created man in His image?
Or does God love man any less if He created humans in the image of a woman?
Are we not secure in God's love for us, whatever gender, race, financial status, physical or intellectual structure?

Woman sinned first, again, so what?
I certainly don't consider myself 'purer' or superior because of that, nor should any man, nor should a female feel inferior.
We all have sin nature, regardless of culture, birthplace, birthdate, or any other external circumstances.
Woman are no better then men (although in this perverse generation in this country, society has tried to brainwash us to believe that woman are more "evolved" then men, which is yet just another lie in a long and sorry list of them, from the devil). and of course visa versa.

On another related but somewhat off topic subject;
does anyone here believe that the subjugation of woman, starting in ancient times, was based on their knowledge that Eve committed the first sin? That they believed that because of Eve they were living in a fallen world and "had to" treat woman the way they did due to that knowledge?
Before anyone accuses me of agreeing with that sort of mentality because I mentioned it, I am not, I am merely saying that this is the why and the where the treatment of woman as second class people for many cultures throughout much of history may have originated from.
 
Last edited: