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I have always maintained that Ruckman, Riplinger etc. represent the LUNATIC FRINGE. I have also recommended that all the naysayers read and study The King James Bible Defended by Edward F. Hills (a genuine scholar). However, this is another tangent which did not need to be brought up in this thread. Pure obfuscation.
Getting back to the subject, it does not matter which English translation you use. All the passages pertaining to role of women within the home and within the local church say the same thing. And they are plain enough so that they DO NOT NEED ANY INTERPRETATION (hermeneutic flim-flam). Let's take one example (1 Cor 14:34):
New International Version
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
New Living Translation
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.
English Standard Version
the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
New American Standard Bible
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
King James Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.
International Standard Version
the women must keep silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak out, but must place themselves in submission, as the oral law also says.
NET Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak. Rather, let them be in submission, as in fact the law says.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but to be in subjection, just as The Written Law also says.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
the women must keep silent. They don't have the right to speak. They must take their place as Moses' Teachings say.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Let your women keep silence in the congregations {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones}, for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be in subjection, as also saith the law.
King James 2000 Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law.
American King James Version
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted to them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also said the law.
American Standard Version
let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.
Darby Bible Translation
Let [your] women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not permitted to them to speak; but to be in subjection, as the law also says.
English Revised Version
Let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
Webster's Bible Translation
Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak: but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Weymouth New Testament
Let married women be silent in the Churches, for they are not permitted to speak. They must be content with a subordinate place, as the Law also says;
World English Bible
let your wives keep silent in the assemblies, for it has not been permitted for them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as the law also says.
Young's Literal Translation
Your women in the assemblies let them be silent, for it hath not been permitted to them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith;
Getting back to the subject, it does not matter which English translation you use. All the passages pertaining to role of women within the home and within the local church say the same thing. And they are plain enough so that they DO NOT NEED ANY INTERPRETATION (hermeneutic flim-flam). Let's take one example (1 Cor 14:34):
New International Version
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
New Living Translation
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.
English Standard Version
the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
New American Standard Bible
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
King James Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.
International Standard Version
the women must keep silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak out, but must place themselves in submission, as the oral law also says.
NET Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak. Rather, let them be in submission, as in fact the law says.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but to be in subjection, just as The Written Law also says.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
the women must keep silent. They don't have the right to speak. They must take their place as Moses' Teachings say.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Let your women keep silence in the congregations {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones}, for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be in subjection, as also saith the law.
King James 2000 Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law.
American King James Version
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted to them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also said the law.
American Standard Version
let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.
Darby Bible Translation
Let [your] women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not permitted to them to speak; but to be in subjection, as the law also says.
English Revised Version
Let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
Webster's Bible Translation
Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak: but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Weymouth New Testament
Let married women be silent in the Churches, for they are not permitted to speak. They must be content with a subordinate place, as the Law also says;
World English Bible
let your wives keep silent in the assemblies, for it has not been permitted for them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as the law also says.
Young's Literal Translation
Your women in the assemblies let them be silent, for it hath not been permitted to them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith;
L
Paul said no such thing. He did not say "it is better for women to be quiet", he Commanded they not preach in the church. Huge difference. You are basing truth upon your own perception of things, not what the Bible truly tells you.
So, you have two choices: You can either believe what your false teachers have been telling you OR you can believe what the Bible REALLY says. It is up to you.
So, you have two choices: You can either believe what your false teachers have been telling you OR you can believe what the Bible REALLY says. It is up to you.
Correct.
1 Korinther 14:34 German: Modernized
Eure Weiber lasset schweigen unter der Gemeinde; denn es sollihnen nicht zugelassen werden, daß sie reden, sondern untertan sein, wie auchdas Gesetz sagt.
1 Korinther 14:34 German: Luther (1912)
Wie in allen Gemeinden der Heiligen lasset eure Weiber schweigenin der Gemeinde; denn es soll ihnen nicht zugelassen werden, daß sie reden,sondern sie sollen untertan sein, wie auch das Gesetz sagt.
1 Korinther 14:34 German: Textbibel (1899)
Die Weiber sollen sich, wie in allen Versammlungen der Heiligen,so auch bei euch still verhalten; ihnen kommt es nicht zu, zu reden, sondernunterthan zu sein, wie auch das Gesetz sagt.
1 Korinther 14:34 German: Modernized
Eure Weiber lasset schweigen unter der Gemeinde; denn es sollihnen nicht zugelassen werden, daß sie reden, sondern untertan sein, wie auchdas Gesetz sagt.
1 Korinther 14:34 German: Luther (1912)
Wie in allen Gemeinden der Heiligen lasset eure Weiber schweigenin der Gemeinde; denn es soll ihnen nicht zugelassen werden, daß sie reden,sondern sie sollen untertan sein, wie auch das Gesetz sagt.
1 Korinther 14:34 German: Textbibel (1899)
Die Weiber sollen sich, wie in allen Versammlungen der Heiligen,so auch bei euch still verhalten; ihnen kommt es nicht zu, zu reden, sondernunterthan zu sein, wie auch das Gesetz sagt.
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E
or I can understand paul wrote a letter to a specific church, which had specific problems, and i can look as to why paul said what he did.
i can see God bless our church whether men or woman speak up (we open every message to questions from anyone)and wonder (like i used to when i was like you) why god is not punishing my church for its sin.
your the one who has been misled my friend. I came out of my prison, will you?
Adam Clarke's commentary:
Verse 34
Let your women keep silence in the churches - This was a Jewish ordinance; women were not permitted to teach in the assemblies, or even to ask questions. The rabbins taught that "a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff." And the sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, as delivered, Bammidbar Rabba, sec. 9, fol. 204, are both worthy of remark and of execration; they are these: לנשים ימסרו ואל תורה דברי ישרפו yisrephu dibrey torah veal yimsaru lenashim, "Let the words of the law be burned, rather than that they should be delivered to women."
This was their condition till the time of the Gospel, when, according to the prediction of Joel, the Spirit of God was to be poured out on the women as well as the men, that they might prophesy, i.e. teach. And that they did prophesy or teach is evident from what the apostle says, 1 Corinthians 11:5, where he lays down rules to regulate this part of their conduct while ministering in the church.
But does not what the apostle says here contradict that statement, and show that the words in chap. 11 should be understood in another sense? For, here it is expressly said that they should keep silence in the church; for it was not permitted to a woman to speak. Both places seem perfectly consistent.
It is evident from the context that the apostle refers here to asking questions, and what we call dictating in the assemblies.
It was permitted to any man to ask questions, to object, altercate, attempt to refute, etc., in the synagogue; but this liberty was not allowed to any woman. St. Paul confirms this in reference also to the Christian Church; he orders them to keep silence; and, if they wished to learn any thing, let them inquire of their husbands at home; because it was perfectly indecorous for women to be contending with men in public assemblies, on points of doctrine, cases of conscience, etc.
But this by no means intimated that when a woman received any particular influence from God to enable her to teach, that she was not to obey that influence; on the contrary, she was to obey it, and the apostle lays down directions in chap. 11 for regulating her personal appearance when thus employed.
All that the apostle opposes here is their questioning, finding fault, disputing, etc., in the Christian Church, as the Jewish men were permitted to do in their synagogues; together with the attempts to usurp any authority over the man, by setting up their judgment in opposition to them; for the apostle has in view, especially, acts of disobedience, arrogance, etc., of which no woman would be guilty who was under the influence of the Spirit of God.
But - to be under obedience, as also saith the law - This is a reference to Genesis 3:16; : Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. From this it is evident that it was the disorderly and disobedient that the apostle had in view; and not any of those on whom God had poured out his Spirit.
Verse 34
Let your women keep silence in the churches - This was a Jewish ordinance; women were not permitted to teach in the assemblies, or even to ask questions. The rabbins taught that "a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff." And the sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, as delivered, Bammidbar Rabba, sec. 9, fol. 204, are both worthy of remark and of execration; they are these: לנשים ימסרו ואל תורה דברי ישרפו yisrephu dibrey torah veal yimsaru lenashim, "Let the words of the law be burned, rather than that they should be delivered to women."
This was their condition till the time of the Gospel, when, according to the prediction of Joel, the Spirit of God was to be poured out on the women as well as the men, that they might prophesy, i.e. teach. And that they did prophesy or teach is evident from what the apostle says, 1 Corinthians 11:5, where he lays down rules to regulate this part of their conduct while ministering in the church.
But does not what the apostle says here contradict that statement, and show that the words in chap. 11 should be understood in another sense? For, here it is expressly said that they should keep silence in the church; for it was not permitted to a woman to speak. Both places seem perfectly consistent.
It is evident from the context that the apostle refers here to asking questions, and what we call dictating in the assemblies.
It was permitted to any man to ask questions, to object, altercate, attempt to refute, etc., in the synagogue; but this liberty was not allowed to any woman. St. Paul confirms this in reference also to the Christian Church; he orders them to keep silence; and, if they wished to learn any thing, let them inquire of their husbands at home; because it was perfectly indecorous for women to be contending with men in public assemblies, on points of doctrine, cases of conscience, etc.
But this by no means intimated that when a woman received any particular influence from God to enable her to teach, that she was not to obey that influence; on the contrary, she was to obey it, and the apostle lays down directions in chap. 11 for regulating her personal appearance when thus employed.
All that the apostle opposes here is their questioning, finding fault, disputing, etc., in the Christian Church, as the Jewish men were permitted to do in their synagogues; together with the attempts to usurp any authority over the man, by setting up their judgment in opposition to them; for the apostle has in view, especially, acts of disobedience, arrogance, etc., of which no woman would be guilty who was under the influence of the Spirit of God.
But - to be under obedience, as also saith the law - This is a reference to Genesis 3:16; : Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. From this it is evident that it was the disorderly and disobedient that the apostle had in view; and not any of those on whom God had poured out his Spirit.
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"The Law" can mean many things depending on the context -- anywhere from all of Scripture to just the Ten Commandments. Most commentators believe that Paul is referring to Genesis 3:16 which generically states that men will rule over women (Adam to rule over Eve).
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: mashal
Phonetic Spelling: (maw-shal')
Short Definition: rule
Brown-Driver-Briggs
III. מָשַׁל verb rule, have dominion, reign(Late Hebrew Participle id.; Phoenician משל); —
1 human subject, rule, have dominion over (בְּ) Genesis 3:16; Genesis 4:7; Genesis 24:2 (all J),Genesis 45:8,26
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Strong's Concordance
mashal: to rule, have dominion, reign
Original Word: מָשַׁלPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: mashal
Phonetic Spelling: (maw-shal')
Short Definition: rule
Brown-Driver-Briggs
III. מָשַׁל verb rule, have dominion, reign(Late Hebrew Participle id.; Phoenician משל); —
1 human subject, rule, have dominion over (בְּ) Genesis 3:16; Genesis 4:7; Genesis 24:2 (all J),Genesis 45:8,26
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