Are women allowed to Preach?

[loyaldisciple]

Who is Timothy?
who is Paul?
who is Moses?
who is Apollos?
who is Cephas?

if you want to follow Paul make sure you are following Paul as he followed Christ

there's only ONE FOUNDATION sir and that alone is CHRIST

These men were used as tools to bring men (and women) to CHRIST

Used as tools by whom ? They were used as tools and inspired by GOD HIMSELF to speak. That is why their words are truth and your attempts at disputing those words have and always will be a complete and total failure. For one to believe in God, then they must believe the words of those GOD inspired to speak. It was GOD speaking through them.

 

[miknik5]

Good night. I’m making a lot of typo errors. I can’t keep up with autocorrect and I believe auto correct is out to sabatoge me

 

[miknik5]

Used as tools by whom ? They were used as tools and inspired by GOD HIMSELF to speak. That is why their words are truth and your attempts at disputing those words have and always will be a complete and total failure. For one to believe in God, then they must believe the words of those GOD inspired to speak. It was GOD speaking through them.

Again you put words in my mouth do you?

you do realize that GOD inspired paul to say the very same thing in his introductory letter to the church in Corinth

 

[loyaldisciple]

Good night. I’m making a lot of typo errors. I can’t keep up with autocorrect and I believe auto correct is out to sabatoge me

Goodnight.

 

[miknik5]

And for that matter, going back to the words of Paul in his opening letter to Corinth:

Who is Paul?
Who is Cephas?
who is Apollo’s?


Who was he addressing as not lacking anything?

the men only?

(1 Corinthians 1)

 

[loyaldisciple]

Again you put words in my mouth do you?

you do realize that GOD inspired paul to say the very same thing in his introductory letter to the church in Corinth

But did he say his instructions were limited to Corinth ONLY ? That is the question. You cannot show me a verse limiting his instructions to any certain church or any group of churches. He simply said "women are to be silent in the churches". That is plural form and encompasses all churches unless stated otherwise and it is not stated otherwise anywhere. And I did not place any words into your mouth in the remarks you are referencing. I simply added to your words.

 

[loyaldisciple]

And for that matter, going back to the words of Paul in his opening letter to Corinth:

Who is Paul?
Who is Cephas?
who is Apollo’s?


Who was he addressing as not lacking anything?

the men only?

(1 Corinthians 1)

You can sit and argue all night and you are not going to find one single verse within the BIBLE to discount what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:34-14:35. The reason you cannot find it is because it is not there.

 

[joefizz]

Read the verses. They are extremely clear.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1 Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church

And I'm a monkey's uncle sheesh,I slack off a little and zing bam boom,more trolling ridiculousness.
Extremely clear yeah right,you have to take into consideration the "time period" and the "reason" for Paul's words it's not as "clear" as you make it out to be.
Paul establishes God's "order" when conversing with the Corinthians he is not plainly saying that a woman "cannot speak" in church he's talking about "interruption" of service and for women to not be "overshadowing" men in church as in "leave the men to do their roles" without a bunch of "disorderly conduct",he even finishes out his message in verse 40 with...
1Corinthians chp.14 verse 40(KJV)
Let all things be done decently and in order.
-
So really it's not a matter of "subjugation" of women through out the chapter it's a matter of "reflection" for "everyone" in the churches of Corinth to be "orderly" and "civil".
Also if you back track in the chapter Paul mostly speaks on "speaking in tongues/unknown tongue" so actually it stands more to reason that those two verses are regarding "speaking in tongues/unknown tongue" not "all in all" as many baptist churches might proclaim(I'm baptist too but only to a degree) you can't just take verses "out of context" and have them mean what you "prefer" and Paul himself would most likely tell you the same seeing as he like many disciples and prophets preached what most "didn't want to hear".

 

[joefizz]

You can sit and argue all night and you are not going to find one single verse within the BIBLE to discount what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:34-14:35. The reason you cannot find it is because it is not there.

You do realize that she's not trying to "discount" Paul's words right?
She's trying to show you Paul's reasons for why he spoke those two scriptures and just what they mean and who they were for.
And also being "prideful" over clinging to two scriptures for support isn't a good habit and we are supposed to be "learning" as well.

 

[loyaldisciple]

And I'm a monkey's uncle sheesh,I slack off a little and zing bam boom,more trolling ridiculousness.
Extremely clear yeah right,you have to take into consideration the "time period" and the "reason" for Paul's words it's not as "clear" as you make it out to be.
Paul establishes God's "order" when conversing with the Corinthians he is not plainly saying that a woman "cannot speak" in church he's talking about "interruption" of service and for women to not be "overshadowing" men in church as in "leave the men to do their roles" without a bunch of "disorderly conduct",he even finishes out his message in verse 40 with...
1Corinthians chp.14 verse 40(KJV)
Let all things be done decently and in order.
-
So really it's not matter of "subjugation" of women through out the chapter it's a matter of "reflection" for "everyone" in the churches of Corinth to be "orderly" and "civil".
Also if you back track in the chapter Paul mostly speaks on "speaking in tongues/unknown tongue" so actually it stands more to reason that those two verses are regarding "speaking in tongues/unknown tongue" not "all in all" as many baptist churches might proclaim(I'm baptist too but only to a degree) you can't just take verses "out of context" and have them mean what you "prefer" and Paul himself would most likely tell you the same seeing as he like many disciples and prophets preached what most "didn't want to hear".

Does the verse say it is only for any specific time period ? That is more opinion and speculation. It doesn't say that anywhere in those verses. So, are you suggesting that what was best for the churches then is somehow not best for churches now ? You can have that opinion and make that suggestion if you choose but that is all that it is, opinion, suggestion and speculation.

Can you show me a verse explaining the exact reasons for his words ? Again this is simply opinion and speculation. When you cannot provide an actual verse in the BIBLE that discounts what Paul has said applies to all churches, then you have zero biblical basis to support your argument. All you have is your own speculation and opinion. As I said before, I am not dealing with opinion here. I have provided the exact scripture of what the BIBLE says, and yes it is very clear.

Where does it say anything in the verse about "interruption". It doesn't say that at all. Again this is more speculation on your part. He simply says for the women are not to speak. Yes, he does finish by saying all things should be done decently and in order. And the way he proposed for that to happen was by the women remaining silent which he had already thoroughly explained. And again Paul does nothing to say these instructions are limited unto any certain church or churches. Again more speculation and opinion. And YOU are speaking to someone about taking things "out of context" while adding all of this opinion and speculation into your argument ? How clever, but it won't work here. And finally you reach the truth at the end. Paul spoke "what many did not want to hear". And this whole thread is proving exactly that. Paul spoke the truth that many do not want to hear. So they sit and argue until the sun comes up desperately attempting to somehow discount his words. And they fail miserably each and every time. But still they try because the truth they do not want to hear.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Read the verses. They are extremely clear.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1 Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church

It's extremely doubtful that Paul wrote those two verses. How very strange to be so obsessed with two verses that a lot of evidence suggests are an interpolation. Prudence would dictate not being so dogmatic about something so uncertain.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You can sit and argue all night and you are not going to find one single verse within the BIBLE to discount what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:34-14:35. The reason you cannot find it is because it is not there.

Actually there are a number of verses that contradict the teaching that women aren't allowed to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:5, 24 and 31 are 3 examples. You're basing your misogynist theology on something that was written in the margin by somebody, possibly by someone other than Paul at a later date.

 

[loyaldisciple]

It's extremely doubtful that Paul wrote those two verses. How very strange to be so obsessed with two verses that a lot of evidence suggests are an interpolation. Prudence would dictate not being so dogmatic about something so uncertain.

If you don't believe Paul wrote those verses, then who do you believe wrote them ? I'm not obsessed with anything other than knowing God's truth and following it. If you wish to see that as something terrible, then that's your choice. What would be "prudent" would be to follow what the BIBLE says, would it not ? And "dogmatic" you say. I'm not being dogmatic or authoritative. Just repeating the BIBLE and letting it be the authority.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

1TIMOTHY 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1TIMOTHY 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

1TIMOTHY 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1TIMOTHY 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

The Greek word for silence in the above verses does not mean to shut one's mouth. It means to be still, i.e., not clamorous, desistance from bustle.

G2271 ἡσυχία hesuchia (hay-soo-khee'-ah) n.
1. (as noun) stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle

The Greek word for keeping silent is σιγάω.

G4601 σιγάω sigao (see-gah'-o) v.
1. to keep silent

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you don't believe Paul wrote those verses, then who do you believe wrote them ? I'm not obsessed with anything other than knowing God's truth and following it. If you wish to see that as something terrible, then that's your choice. What would be "prudent" would be to follow what the BIBLE says, would it not ? And "dogmatic" you say. I'm not being dogmatic or authoritative. Just repeating the BIBLE and letting it be the authority.

I have no idea who wrote them, but there is enough evidence to cast significant doubt on the idea that Paul did. It's not prudent to follow words that Paul possibly didn't write.

 

[loyaldisciple]

Actually there are a number of verses that contradict the teaching that women aren't allowed to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:5, 24 and 31 are 3 examples. You're basing your misogynist theology on something that was written in the margin by somebody, possibly by someone other than Paul at a later date.

There is not a single word in any of those verses regarding women preaching inside the church. Not a single word. Accusing my theology of being "misogynist" is simply bearing false witness. When I share the verses of 1 Corinthians 14:34-14:35 it is not my words that are being put forth. It is the word of God.

 

[loyaldisciple]

The Greek word for silence in the above verses does not mean to shut one's mouth. It means to be still, i.e., not clamorous, desistance from bustle.

G2271 ἡσυχία hesuchia (hay-soo-khee'-ah) n.
1. (as noun) stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle

The Greek word for keeping silent is σιγάω.

G4601 σιγάω sigao (see-gah'-o) v.
1. to keep silent

There are no Greek words in those verses now. They are written in plain English. And if the Greek word for silence doesn't mean to shut one's mouth, then they better change it because that's exactly what it means.

 

[loyaldisciple]

I have no idea who wrote them, but there is enough evidence to cast significant doubt on the idea that Paul did. It's not prudent to follow words that Paul possibly didn't write.

The BIBLE is very clear that Paul wrote those verses. I have no idea what would make you think he didn't. Except for possibly just some excuse not to follow them.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The BIBLE is very clear that Paul wrote those verses. I have no idea what would make you think he didn't. Except for possibly just some excuse not to follow them.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 are the only verses in the bible that forbid women to speak in Church. The bible is very clear that in Christ women are under no such prohibition. You're following a Roman idea that misogynist Roman church leaders brought into the church.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There are no Greek words in those verses now. They are written in plain English. And if the Greek word for silence doesn't mean to shut one's mouth, then they better change it because that's exactly what it means.

They have changed that word to quietness in a lot of bibles. Quietness is not silence. Quietness is being still to learn in submission to the whole congregation and not speaking out of turn, as all people, male and female, were/are supposed to do.