Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

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Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
885
181
43
#1
It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,073
2,381
113
#2
It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).
I agree with the word of God a women is not to assert authority over the man I.e Her Husband. 2 A women according to the word of God should n to be a Leader of the body of fellowship. But a women can teach , pray and worship God and be used of God in the church setting under the pastor of the church. They can too minister to the the body as husband wife which is very prudent to do in this day and age.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
885
181
43
#3
I agree with the word of God a women is not to assert authority over the man I.e Her Husband. 2 A women according to the word of God should n to be a Leader of the body of fellowship. But a women can teach , pray and worship God and be used of God in the church setting under the pastor of the church. They can too minister to the the body as husband wife which is very prudent to do in this day and age.
I agree that women can teach, pray and worship and do all things, except Pastor a church either alone or as a co-pastor with her husband.

With all due respect, That idea is NOT Biblical but instead it is a denominational teaching to get around the directions given by Paul.

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12)

Verse 11 says, “Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.”
The Greek adversative “de” (“but” in English) links verse 12 back to 11. Paul wants women to learn in the entire submissiveness.

Some even say that the Greek words “gyne” (woman) and “andros” (man) mean wife and husband. This would render the verse as, “But I do not allow a wife to teach or exercise authority over a husband, but to remain quiet.” (1 Tim. 2:12). Supporters of this argument then conclude that this would not prevent a woman from being a pastor since this is not speaking of women in general but only wives in relation to their husbands. Is this argument sound? No, it isn’t.

WHY????

If a wife were a pastor and her husband were in the congregation, then when she taught, she’d be teaching her husband. This can’t work–unless the husband has to leave the church each time his wife teaches. Ridiculous? You bet!

In all of the 17 English translations of the Bible I have (Darby, ASV, ESV, HCSB, ISV, KJV, NASB95, NASB, NCV, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, WUESTNT, RSV, GNB, WorrelNT, YLT), none translate the verse as wife and husband, so why do people assert that it is about a husband and wife?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,050
7,269
113
#4
It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.
Whether or not you wish to cause arguments and divisions, those already exist. However I am in full agreement with you (or should I say with the Word of God).

God has plainly forbidden women to be (1) pastors, (2) teachers, or (3) elders within the local church in order to exercise authority over the assembly. And the reasons have also been clearly stated. Also, the husband is the head of the wife, therefore Christian women (whether single or married) must cover their heads and hair during worship (1 Corinthians 11).

There are other threads which have discussed this matter at length. Absolutely no one will change their minds regarding this (or any other matter) if they have committed themselves to false doctrine. You can show then 100 Scriptures, but it makes no difference. The same applies to Calvinists, or other groups with unscriptural beliefs. The love for false teachings generally exceeds the love of the truth.
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
1,270
897
113
#6
The strongest argument I find is that God gives spiritual gifts, I believe God can give a woman the skills/gifts to be pastor. Keep in mind that women also pray to God about this issue before becoming a pastor, and wait for His answer. Another compelling reason I find is that the Bible says single unmarried men cannot be church leaders:

1 Timothy 3:2 “A bishop (elder) then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach”; 1 Timothy 3:12 “Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well”; and Titus 1:6-7 “. . . appoint elders in every city as I commanded you—if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination...” These three passages suggest that an elder or deacon must be a married man.
However, if that's the case even Jesus and Paul would be unqualified to be pastor.

The authority issue is about the husband and wife relationship; the husband has authority over the wife. However, any random man does not automatically have authority over a woman. If the woman is married, I do think she needs the husband's approval before being pastor. My observation with the female pastors I see is that the husbands are proud of their wives.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,337
10,415
113
#7
Some even say that the Greek words “gyne” (woman) and “andros” (man) mean wife and husband. This would render the verse as, “But I do not allow a wife to teach or exercise authority over a husband, but to remain quiet.” (1 Tim. 2:12). Supporters of this argument then conclude that this would not prevent a woman from being a pastor since this is not speaking of women in general but only wives in relation to their husbands. Is this argument sound? No, it isn’t.
hmm wouldn't that interpretation mean that if a woman is a pastor, she either needs to be unmarried or her husband must attend a different church? weird.

:unsure:
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
1,270
897
113
#8
I also believe there is a blurry line between missionary and pastor. There is usually no argument that women cannot be missionaries.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,529
113
#9
Some even say that the Greek words “gyne” (woman) and “andros” (man) mean wife and husband. This would render the verse as, “But I do not allow a wife to teach or exercise authority over a husband, but to remain quiet.” (1 Tim. 2:12). Supporters of this argument then conclude that this would not prevent a woman from being a pastor since this is not speaking of women in general but only wives in relation to their husbands. Is this argument sound? No, it isn’t.
It's easy to understand logic, when it's so concisely exposed like you just did, people are just not listening to common sense. Not only husbands are to instruct their wives what to do. ANY MAN in church has authority to tell ANY woman what to do and she needs to be quiet, whether she's married to him or not. So completely unknown guys also have rights to insert themselves into people's marriage and tell the wife whatever they see fit. Divorced and widowed adult and elderly women are to go back to their fathers to be under their supervision, but if their father is dead, then it is proper that ALL men in the congregation, young or old, should boss them around, they are women and cannot make mature or spiritual decisions after all.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,220
10,094
113
#10
1 Timothy 3:1-2... "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".
Major hasn't done his homework; there is no male pronoun in the Greek of this passage. While "husband" does appear, it is clear from biblical context that Paul is precluding polygamists from eldership (and deaconship), not women or single men. 1 Timothy 3:12 has the same "restriction" that most readers believe precludes women from being deacons. It is highly unlikely that Paul meant that, as he identifies Phoebe (a woman) as a deacon in Romans 16:1. Again, check the Greek.

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!
Ah, so if you disagree with Major's INTERPRETATION, you are supposedly disagreeing with Christ.

That's called arrogance.

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1. Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
Paul didn't say anything at all about women teaching the Bible to men.

2. Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.
The word authentein is incorrectly translated as "exercise authority over"; it does not mean that. The word has about 50 different meanings in classical Greek, and the meaning Paul likely had in mind was something like "seduce".

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.
At least he is clear that the following is his opinion.

1. The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.
A far better explanation is that Paul was, in fact, referring to a cultural issue about which Timothy was well aware: the mystery cult teaching that Eve was formed first and was not deceived.

2. The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
This is unmitigated sexism disguised as biblical interpretation. ONE woman was deceived, NOT all women. That Eve was deceived says nothing at all about any other woman. It says nothing at all about Eve's nature (nor about Adam's).
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,220
10,094
113
#11
One more comment I'll add, regarding the thread title: strictly speaking, "women pastors" are not biblical; there aren't any women identified as pastors in the New Testament. However, the New Testament does not have any record of a male who was identified as a pastor either. ;)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
11,703
4,229
113
#12
it seems this poster wants to cause arguments

I think if hes got an issue with anything take it up with God. Did you know that God is actually above man and that women actually have a direct line to God as well?

Because of our relationship with Jesus, theres no need for a man to be deluding himself that he can be bossing women. Theres also no need for women to be telling men what to do.

Most women dont go off to war and kill other women, just cos someone tells them to. Maybe its because women have got some brains and a heart and use them....
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
11,703
4,229
113
#13
Letter to Timothy is interesting but back in those days, in synagogues only men could learn, women and girls just stayed home and looked after the children.

its still like that today when most men have no clue how to look after children...and even today there are very few men who are in childcare.

But the thing with wars and half population of men being absent thanks to work, ill health or just deserting the family, women find they often need to do everything.

Jesus had no objection to women learning, but eventually women will teach because thats you do once you have learned something ...at the time of Timothys letter, women even learning was quite radical. They didnt have many women teaching back then.

but dont worry, its only taken a few centuries for women to catch up and for most to gain a post primary school education....
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,538
1,689
113
#14
The Lord speaks a lot about the teamwork God asks for between women and men. The ideal team of woman/man is that men act as leaders of this team and women are equal to men, but operate as support for that team.

However, if the man does not do his work as leader and a woman is capable of doing the necessary leading, then there are examples in scripture of women stepping up to the plate. In Judges, a woman was the one most capable of leading. Paul used women to lead and teach. There is no scripture saying they are forbidden to lead if it is necessary. It is not the ideal way, but permitted.

In many households in these days that seem to be the last days, many men are not leading the household in teaching the children and women are fulfilling that role they are supposed to play. It would be wrong for a woman to say they won't do that because it is the man's place. So it is with any leadership role that would not be filled if a woman would not take over that job.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,529
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#15
"Submit to ONE ANOTHER". "In honor preferring ONE ANOTHER".
Not only one side submitting. Not only one side being preferred.
We're done with bossing ANYONE around. Jesus being master washed His disciples' feet, set the table for them to eat, and taught them not to strive to grab a place of recognition when being seated. Seeing how little the mentality has changed over millennia, I do wonder how much Christians as a group have actually gathered from His teaching as opposed to what we claim to have learned.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,220
10,094
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#18
Has anyone read 1 Timothy 2, verse 9 - 12 ?
Yes; likely everyone who has contributed here, many times, and most who would care to read the thread. Perhaps you'd care to unpack your point?
 
Jan 2, 2021
23
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#20
I'd be more inclined to look at the resources if they represented a variety of views. The link you provided presents only one perspective on the issue.
Truth only has "one perspective", while error has plethora.