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E

ed

Guest
#1
#1
Hi,
I would like to see a discussion on Authority, or power. Using Job as an example God told Satan that everything Job had is in your hands but do not touch the man. Oxen, donkeys, and servants killed, fire fell from heaven killing sheep and servants, raiders came and stole camels, and a mighty wind came and killed his sons and daughters. ( Note God speaking to Satan, " .... though you incited me against him, to ruin him without reason." Now Job was afflicted with painful sores.
Who has this authority to bring fire down from heaven and such a mighty wind that demolishes a house and kills many (is it 7 sons) young adults. And how strong is this authority.How many angels or persons or authorities in the heavenly realms have such authority?
As these things happen under God's word, surrely it is His will.
In these instances who carries out God's will?
love
edwin.
 
M

Mich223

Guest
#2
#2
God has all authority in Heaven and on Earth. We hope that Job is the only one that Satan singled out to go through pain and torture. But since the world is lying in the power of the Wicked one, we must wonder. Since the Devil was cast out of Heaven along with his angels as Revelation says, their power may have been curtailed. Yet God has all power and authority.
 
E

ed

Guest
#3
#3
Mich223 said:
God has all authority in Heaven and on Earth. We hope that Job is the only one that Satan singled out to go through pain and torture. But since the world is lying in the power of the Wicked one, we must wonder. Since the Devil was cast out of Heaven along with his angels as Revelation says, their power may have been curtailed. Yet God has all power and authority.
Click to expand...
Hi Mich,
Are you saying that the fire which fell from heaven came from God. And the same with the wind? I understand and fully believe that Satan whispers in the ears /hearts of people to deceive and to encourage them in his satan's desires, but I am very unsure of satan's abilities beyond whispering. And I imagine we are very much agreed that the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God's will.
When you say the world is lying in the power of the Wicked one in what sense do you mean. And how powerful. Is it beyond whispering.
I thank you for helping me sort this out.
This is a difficult subject.

love
edwin
 
M

Mulehide

Guest
#4
#4
ed said:
Hi Mich,
Are you saying that the fire which fell from heaven came from God. And the same with the wind? I understand and fully believe that Satan whispers in the ears /hearts of people to deceive and to encourage them in his satan's desires, but I am very unsure of satan's abilities beyond whispering. And I imagine we are very much agreed that the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God's will.
When you say the world is lying in the power of the Wicked one in what sense do you mean. And how powerful. Is it beyond whispering.
I thank you for helping me sort this out.
This is a difficult subject.

love
edwin
Click to expand...
Satan is the "prince and power of the air" and the "god of this world." This bespeaks great power. We are promised that "greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." Why would God want to reassure His children if satan had no power? I believe satan has great power, more than we realize or even want to. BUT God has ultimate power and authority!
 
E

ed

Guest
#5
#5
Mulehide said:
Satan is the "prince and power of the air" and the "god of this world." This bespeaks great power. We are promised that "greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." Why would God want to reassure His children if satan had no power? I believe satan has great power, more than we realize or even want to. BUT God has ultimate power and authority!
Click to expand...
Hi Mulehide,
Thank you for helping. Do you see Satan's power as limitless as God's but of course not able to be exercised without consent from God. And if the Holy Spirit is the activator or doer for God, who holds the similar position for satan. And who can use this activator or doer of satan.

love
edwin
 
M

Mich223

Guest
#6
#6
Hi Ed, I was referring to 1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness - referring to the wicked one. I believe the devil and his rebel angels are forces of evil. No whispering. Just forces that we have to reckon with everyday.
 
M

Mich223

Guest
#7
#7
Mulehide you are right.
 
M

Mulehide

Guest
#8
#8
ed said:
Hi Mulehide,
Thank you for helping. Do you see Satan's power as limitless as God's but of course not able to be exercised without consent from God. And if the Holy Spirit is the activator or doer for God, who holds the similar position for satan. And who can use this activator or doer of satan.

love
edwin
Click to expand...
Satan's power is in no way limitless. But, he was the most powerful of the angels, even above archangels such as Michael and Gabriel. His power is limited and it is under the express consent of God to touch believers. I posted about his power because we as Christians tend to underestimate him. We are no match for satan on our own. However, (Praise God!) satan is no match for us when we are wholly dependent on God and His power.

I would not refer to the Holy Spirit as the activator or doer for God. (But that is debated in other threads.) I will, however say that Satan is a great imitator. He cannot overthrow God outright so he tries a coup in essence. The activator or doer of satan? Anyone or anything that opposes God.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#10
#10
God’s authority is an aspect of his unalterable, universal and eternal dominion over His creation. This universal Kingship is distinct from (though basic to) the covenanted relationship between himself and Israel by which Israel became his people and kingdom (cf. Ex. 19:6), and so heirs of his blessing.

His regal authority over mankind consists in his unchallengable right and power to dispose of men as he pleases (compared by Paul to the potter’s exousia over the clay, Rom. 9:21; cf. Je. 18:6), plus his indisputable claim that men should be subject to him and live for his glory.

Throughout the Bible, the reality of God’s authority is proved by the fact that all who ignore or flout this claim incur divine judgment. The royal Judge has the last word, and so his authority is vindicated. All three persons of the one God of the Bible exercise God's power in scripture while fulfilling their functional roles.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#11
#11
Satan is not omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent. There are specific things that I do not believe Satan cannot do.
1. He cannot create, only twist.
2. He cannot become corporeal.
3. He cannot be everywhere at once.
4. He cannot predict the future, but he can set up a scam.
5. He cannot understand or accept grace.
6. He cannot fix a perfect ham sandwich. (Well, maybe, but it is tough.)
 
loveschild

loveschild

Banned
#12
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#12
It is not Gods will for people to tortured by devils. God has made it very clear, chose life or chose death. Through people chosing not to believe in God they have chosen death. Through people chosing to sin even if they say they believe in God they have chosen to be punished.

Satan is the accuser of people. So he walks up to God and says theres so and and they are in sin and I have a right to do evil apon them. He is right.

Anyone of of us can go to God and say I see so and so and I want to stand for this person. Pray and try and help them. Ask God what you should do. How much courage do you have?? By saying to God that you will stand for this person means Satan can do to you what he was going to do to the person. You need to know how to fight Satan.

You can help carry the load for the person while you are trying to get them on the right track.

Satan and his army have much power. But God and his army have much more power.

The demons and Gods angels have different duties. There are lower and higher beings in both armies. But what is very important is that the people on earth have powers to. Lower and higher. Depending on what they do.

Like there are some lower class demons who get tortured by stronger demons. The same as witches on earth who have demons in them and they are constantly fighting to have the stronger demons in them to fight off the witches who have the stronger demons.

The witces have to go do evil to humans to prove themselves so they can have stronger demons in them. If one witch has more powers and tells a weaker witch to do something the person doesn't obey they demons of the stronger witch will hurt the other until she complies.

Gods angels have different jobs. They are all very important. One angel has a job of catching a babies soul at the time it is being aborted... Another of Gods angels comes to earth and can make a whole car reck scene to see what human will pass the test to see who will stop and help.

Gods warrior angels are fighters. There are zillions of angels.

A person on earth who says they believe in God but doesn't read there bible. Isn't doing all they can to serve God of course has less power than one who is seeking God always and God is showing the people in need and they are doing Gods will. All people on earth could have great powers from God its a matter of wanting to obey God.
 
E

ed

Guest
#13
#13
Mulehide said:
Satan's power is in no way limitless. But, he was the most powerful of the angels, even above archangels such as Michael and Gabriel. His power is limited and it is under the express consent of God to touch believers. I posted about his power because we as Christians tend to underestimate him. We are no match for satan on our own. However, (Praise God!) satan is no match for us when we are wholly dependent on God and His power.

I would not refer to the Holy Spirit as the activator or doer for God. (But that is debated in other threads.) I will, however say that Satan is a great imitator. He cannot overthrow God outright so he tries a coup in essence. The activator or doer of satan? Anyone or anything that opposes God.
Click to expand...
Hi Mulehide,
As Satan is the most powerful of angels and God has not stripped him of this power, how extensive is it. We read about this especially in Revelations. Does Satan have to himself as God has the Holy Spirit. ie Does satan have a spirit that is capable of immense deeds and is he able to give this to his fallen angels and to people who wish to follow him. Is there any scripture concerning the style or source of satan's authority.
love
edwin
 
E

ed

Guest
#14
#14
charisenexcelcis said:
Satan is not omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent. There are specific things that I do not believe Satan cannot do.
1. He cannot create, only twist.
2. He cannot become corporeal.
3. He cannot be everywhere at once.
4. He cannot predict the future, but he can set up a scam.
5. He cannot understand or accept grace.
6. He cannot fix a perfect ham sandwich. (Well, maybe, but it is tough.)
Click to expand...
Hi charisenexcelcis,
Rev.12:12".......because he knows that his time is short."
Rev13:2 ".... The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." fatal wounds healed
Rev 13:5 "The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. Given power over saints to conquer them, and authority over every tribe , people, language, and nation. then a lamb who spoke like a dragon who received this power and authority.
performed great and miraculous signs. fire down from heaven.
What can you tell me about this? If satan does not have omnipresence then he must be racking up some frequent flyer points.
What other mysteries do you see here?
I would like a discussion on these issues.
and oops other issues later
love
edwin
 
M

Mulehide

Guest
#15
#15
ed said:
Hi Mulehide,
As Satan is the most powerful of angels and God has not stripped him of this power, how extensive is it. We read about this especially in Revelations. Does Satan have to himself as God has the Holy Spirit. ie Does satan have a spirit that is capable of immense deeds and is he able to give this to his fallen angels and to people who wish to follow him. Is there any scripture concerning the style or source of satan's authority.
love
edwin
Click to expand...
Charisenexcelsis gave a good answer to this.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#16
#16
charisenexcelcis said:
Satan is not omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent. There are specific things that I do not believe Satan can do.
1. He cannot create, only twist.
2. He cannot become corporeal.
3. He cannot be everywhere at once.
4. He cannot predict the future, but he can set up a scam.
5. He cannot understand or accept grace.
6. He cannot fix a perfect ham sandwich. (Well, maybe, but it is tough.)
Click to expand...
Just wanted to fix the typo. Must slow down thoughts so that fingers can keep up. Aargh!
 
I

ibewhoibe

Guest
#17
#17
Greetings,

We know Satan will be kicked out and preforms in the sight of men to decieve.

Rev13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

and in fact "Can" make fire hit the earth,

So he's powerful, But Jesus Christ is the name that puts him running

"I Be A Disciple Of Jesus Christ" " I be In His Service "
 
E

ed

Guest
#18
#18
Mulehide said:
Satan is the "prince and power of the air" and the "god of this world." This bespeaks great power. We are promised that "greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." Why would God want to reassure His children if satan had no power? I believe satan has great power, more than we realize or even want to. BUT God has ultimate power and authority!
Click to expand...
Hi Mulehide,
If God exercises His Authority through the Holy Spirit how does satan exercise his authority?
Ie is it the Spirit of Satan?
love
edwin
 
E

ed

Guest
#19
#19
Hi,
It seems no one has an answer. Is this correct? I was not looking for associated answers but specific answers. Ie Does Satan use a magic wand, an unholy Spirit, or is satan unique in that satan just speaks (as does God) and what satan speaks happens. If so by what authority does satan's word manifest itself?
love
edwin
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#20
#20
ed said:
Hi charisenexcelcis,
Rev.12:12".......because he knows that his time is short."
Rev13:2 ".... The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." fatal wounds healed
Rev 13:5 "The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. Given power over saints to conquer them, and authority over every tribe , people, language, and nation. then a lamb who spoke like a dragon who received this power and authority.
performed great and miraculous signs. fire down from heaven.
What can you tell me about this? If satan does not have omnipresence then he must be racking up some frequent flyer points.
If Satan is omniscient then he is right there with you. He's looking over your shoulder as you read this. He right next to you as you go about your day and hovers around you at night and there is nothing that you can do about it because this is ontologically what he is. that concept is not Biblical.
What other mysteries do you see here?
I would like a discussion on these issues.
and oops other issues later
love
edwin
Click to expand...
Satan has great power, but there is no comparing his power to God's. I stand behind my list. If you can show me in scripture one example that goes against this, I will gladly change it.
One thing about Revelation--Satan attempts to duplicate everything God did in our redemption. He sets up a false trinity, a false resurrection, a false church and much more.
 
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