Assurance of salvation

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Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
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#1
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC? Does anyone know how similar? Doctrine such as assurance of salvation is not held in Catholic churches. Could have the early churches believed the same?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
37,838
14,783
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#2
John writes to us that we may know we have eternal life. RCC did not
come into existence for hundreds of years after Jesus walked this world.




1 John 5:11-13 :) 1 John 5:11-13 :)
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#3
You are asking a bigger question than you realize.



Your assurance of salvation is secured by Jesus himself. That is what the ancient church pretty much believed.
By Grace through faith.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
4,116
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mywebsite.us
#4
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC?
Ohhhhhhhhhh!!!

(think: sound of pain)

Absolutely not! Not even close!

(you heard wrong)

The RCC was-and-is "everything opposite" from the early churches.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,658
313
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#5
Yeah the early churches were independent organizations that had baptism by immersion for only saved people.

RCC practices like the others have posted came much later, with the elevation of Mary, infant baptism, saint worship and having one bishop over many churches among other issues.

Assurance of salvation in the early churches was straight from the knowledge of scripture.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
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#6
There is barely any assurance in any 'ism ' . Take Calvinism, Arminianism lutherernism, Catholicism, Pentecostalism, Methodism, ect .
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,321
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London
#7
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC? Does anyone know how similar? Doctrine such as assurance of salvation is not held in Catholic churches. Could have the early churches believed the same?
Early churches were as similar to the RCC as day is to night.

Peter brake the bread, he didn't dress up as a Roman senator and bob up and down in front of it and swing incense at it or worship it as Jesus Christ.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#8
I can point you to a ton of reading of writings from the ancient church, which spells out the doxology, but to a summary statement such as one of the creeds don't really exist.
What is your goal. I love church history and would love to help you out.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#9
I am Lutheran a very conservative Lutheran, and we very much have held on to the practice and worship and belief of the church as it was during the 1500s, but we also hold very much to the teachings of the ancient, (we call them fathers) teachings. By that I mean first second and third century teachings and understanding of scripture. Because we have their letters, books, written sermons, and written prayers.
Yes we certainly believe very much in the assurance of salvation. That salvation is a work of Christ alone, by Grace, and that he keeps us in the faith. However we believe that a person can reject grace and walk away from faith, and these people can become in danger of losing salvation, not because Jesus is pulling it away from someone, but because they willfully reject Christ. We believe that even so, Christ is still there offering them grace continually in attempt to return them to the faith, and that repentance is still there for them.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,356
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#10
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC?
Quite the opposite. The Bible teaches the eternal security of the Bible, which is what was taught by Christ and the apostles.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,834
626
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#11
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC? Does anyone know how similar? Doctrine such as assurance of salvation is not held in Catholic churches. Could have the early churches believed the same?
The RCC could of not been similar to the early Church because they do so much that is against what the Bible teaches, and interprets some scriptures wrongly.

The Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law, and we go by the 2 greatest laws love God, and love people, the moral laws, and laws of love.

It is that simple.

But the RCC have many things they do that is not necessary to be right with God, and some things that have an occult theme to them.

It is obvious that when the RCC embraced Christianity, Bible, that they did not get rid of their religious ways, pagan, and it became their foundation for the interpreting of scriptures.

Jesus said do not exalt Mary and all people that does the will of His Father is His mother, brethren, and sisters, and said anybody that hears the word of God and does it is as blessed as Mary.

But they call Mary the mother of God and the Queen of heaven which that alone should tell a person they are false and that is a serious error for God does not give His glory to another.

They call the Pope Holy Father, but Jesus told a man why call me good for there is only one good, and that is God, and Jesus said call no man on earth father in a spiritual sense which the Pope is not their natural father, and Jesus is the head of the Church not the Pope.

They confess their sins to the priest but Jesus is the mediator between God and men, and we confess our sins to God.

And all the works and traditions and things they do that God did not tell us to do, and does not make us right with Him, and some of it occult like.

And much more they do wrong that is too numerous to tell without going over the 10,000 character limit.

They have in St. Peter's Basilica what looks like the 8 path fold which is an occult symbol.

The RCC has it's foundation in the occult, and paganism, and the new age movement interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and the nations will come together as one and the New Age Christ will start working in the world and push the agenda of the new age movement until the world rebels against God.

The Pope will be the leader of the unified religious system, and the Vatican will be headquarters in the future as they go along with what is going on in the world at that time for they have their foundation in the occult and will change with the times of the world.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#12
There is a lot to church history. Sadly so much of what is written here is just crass nonsense.

So just as an example of what was taught about salvation and assurity.
This is article XI paragraph 7 from the formal of concord (the Book of Concord, is a collection of the doctrinal standards of Lutheranism in Germany, published in German (June 25, 1580) and in Latin (1584). In effort to heal the divisions that had broken out in the Lutheran movement).(just so you know what the book of concord is. It's not scripture but basically a collection of and summary of faith statements).


Christ calls to Himself all sinners and promises them rest, and He is in earnest [seriously wills] that all men should come to Him and suffer themselves to be helped, to whom He offers Himself in His Word, and wishes them to hear it and not to stop their ears or [neglect and] despise the Word. Moreover, He promises the power and working of the Holy Ghost, and divine assistance for perseverance and eternal salvation [that we may remain steadfast in the faith and attain eternal salvation].
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#13
As for how close the ancient church was to the modern Rcc church, yeah they have gone way off, but it wasn't always so.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,247
2,566
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#14
Thanks for the info yall. A person in one of my christian groups was trying to decide if they wanted to get into Catholicism. I dont know enough to properly debate or try to encourage him to look elsewhere.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,547
271
83
#15
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC? Does anyone know how similar? Doctrine such as assurance of salvation is not held in Catholic churches. Could have the early churches believed the same?
The New Testament and the Roman Catholic Church were alike as chalk and cheese.

The NTC were led by the Spirit. The RCC are led by the pope.
The NTC was simple and devoted to the risen christ. The RCC is devoted to all sorts of rules, regulations and conditions.
THe NTC did not have the eucharist. The eucharist is central to everything in the RCC
The NTC did not dress up in fancy robes. The RCC idolises fancy robes.
The NTC did not enforce singleness for their ministries. The RCC does.
The NTC demands a born again experience. The RCC does not.
The NTC did not molest children. The RCC church priests do.
The NTC did not meet in expensive and fancy church buildings. The RCC church does.
The NTC leadership was chosen by God. The RCC leadership is chosen by man.
Plus, plus, plus......
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#16
Thanks for the info yall. A person in one of my christian groups was trying to decide if they wanted to get into Catholicism. I dont know enough to properly debate or try to encourage him to look elsewhere.
Just recommend the bible to him . Alone .
 
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
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#17
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC? Does anyone know how similar? Doctrine such as assurance of salvation is not held in Catholic churches. Could have the early churches believed the same?
It depends on what type of assurance you are referring to.

The general assurance that all those covered by the grace of God will be saved.

OR

The precise assurance of an individual having knowledge of their own coverage by grace.

I look forward to your reply.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,247
2,566
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#18
It depends on what type of assurance you are referring to.

The general assurance that all those covered by the grace of God will be saved.

OR

The precise assurance of an individual having knowledge of their own coverage by grace.

I look forward to your reply.
I've always had doubts of my own personally. That being said I have family members I'd like to be saved (which obviously isnt my decision to make 😬) So I suppose a bit of both.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#19
I've always had doubts of my own personally. That being said I have family members I'd like to be saved (which obviously isnt my decision to make 😬) So I suppose a bit of both.
No need to have doubt, you believe and are baptised which according to Peter in acts, is a promise to you from God. Not contingent upon us, but fully reliant upon the faithfulness of God.
So pray for those family members and friends. Read and pray according to the psalms. There is powerful stuff in those psalms for our prayer life.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,247
2,566
113
#20
No need to have doubt, you believe and are baptised which according to Peter in acts, is a promise to you from God. Not contingent upon us, but fully reliant upon the faithfulness of God.
So pray for those family members and friends. Read and pray according to the psalms. There is powerful stuff in those psalms for our prayer life.
That was baptized by the spirit and not water right?🤔 (I was baptized as a baby I believe but if I recall that is different)