Baptism and holy spirit

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shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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I would say i am not a cessationalist, if god needs to use tongues for a specific purpose, ha can and will
God isn't the one that uses tongues. We do. The Bible gives reasons what they are to be used for. When done by an individual, he is edified (1 Cor 14:4; Jude 20). When done in the church and interpreted, the church is edified (1 Cor 14:5). We know that when we speak in tongues we are praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14-15), something we are encouraged to always do (Eph 6:18). When we speak in tongues we are giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17). We are speaking the wonderful works of God, magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46). There are more. Not to mention that God says via Paul He would like all Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5). And while some may consider Paul to be somewhat egotistical when he said we are to be followers of him, I think he was writing by revelation, and Paul spoke in tongues more than the whole Corinthian church put together.

I am saying the tongues particular churches do on sunday or other times is not the tongues of the first century in my view.
Why? There are certainly churches that don't follow Paul's instruction (everyone speaking at once, nobody interpreting), but they are speaking in tongues.

If you're talking about people getting "slain in the spirit", knocked down or knocked out, uncontrollable "holy laughter", and other things like that, then I agree. Those things are not biblical.

I also believe dueing the tribulation period, major gifts will again be brough to the forefront, as again, God has a purpose (especially if the rapture happens pretrib)
Could be, but not relevant to what is available to Christians right now.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
821
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Shrume, your reply above was good. You spoke respectfully (you always do as far as I've seen) and with no sarcasm or arrogance. And that is true no matter if I happened to agree with you or happened to not agree with you or happened to have some indifference even. The only thing I would like to see is for you to answer someone using no scripture, or only one verse or passage, with scripture yourself. Opinions, fine. suppositions, fine. Best guesses, fine. It is a discussion and all of those are acceptable. But if this is as important as it seems to be to you, I think you should use the scriptures that have formed your belief. Or even just your paraphrase of recollection of what the verses say.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
Shrume, your reply above was good. You spoke respectfully (you always do as far as I've seen) and with no sarcasm or arrogance. And that is true no matter if I happened to agree with you or happened to not agree with you or happened to have some indifference even. The only thing I would like to see is for you to answer someone using no scripture, or only one verse or passage, with scripture yourself. Opinions, fine. suppositions, fine. Best guesses, fine. It is a discussion and all of those are acceptable. But if this is as important as it seems to be to you, I think you should use the scriptures that have formed your belief. Or even just your paraphrase of recollection of what the verses say.
SBG, while maybe I didn't use many scripture references in post #500, I have used scripture over and over and over and over in previous posts backing up the exact points I was making in #500.

But your point is noted, and I'll try and give scripture references every time. :)
 

Avillianna

Junior Member
May 20, 2018
15
7
3
Baptism and holy spirit
I hear that the holy spirit comes down when you are baptized.
The Holy Sprit enters our hearts at the moment we accept Christ as our savior and invite him into our lives, not when we are baptized. Baptism is simply a public declaration that you intend to live like God intends us to live, that you do in fact believe in him, and that you want to profess this to the world.
 

Avillianna

Junior Member
May 20, 2018
15
7
3
I feel like I need to ask you all a question who are saying that you don't receive the HS until you are baptized:

What about those people who come to Christ and ask for his forgiveness and choose to believe in Him right before they pass away? Are you saying that these people do not receive the gift of eternal life from God simply because they weren't baptized?

The HS was given to us so that Christ could REMAIN with us after Jesus died, so that Christ could continue to live with us, to walk with us, and to help us through life...the same way Jesus was with people in the flesh. THAT is why I believe that at the moment we truly and whole-heartedly ask Christ to be a part of our lives and we ask for forgiveness of sins, and we accept him as our savior and Lord, that the HS at that time is a part of us.

Yes, we ARE instructed to be baptized....but it's not a "requirement" to receive God in you....like what I am understanding some of you are saying.

I'm sorry if this doesn't quite make sense...I'm a little tired, but wanted to speak while my thought was fresh.
 

Avillianna

Junior Member
May 20, 2018
15
7
3
The Holy Spirit "comes" when we surrender to God and let him work through our lives. But as well as that, when we accept Jesus as Lord over our lives, the Holy Spirit makes his home in our hearts.

Just my beliefs,
Dave
I agree with you 100%. It's the only thing that makes sense.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,844
703
113
I feel like I need to ask you all a question who are saying that you don't receive the HS until you are baptized:

What about those people who come to Christ and ask for his forgiveness and choose to believe in Him right before they pass away? Are you saying that these people do not receive the gift of eternal life from God simply because they weren't baptized?

The HS was given to us so that Christ could REMAIN with us after Jesus died, so that Christ could continue to live with us, to walk with us, and to help us through life...the same way Jesus was with people in the flesh. THAT is why I believe that at the moment we truly and whole-heartedly ask Christ to be a part of our lives and we ask for forgiveness of sins, and we accept him as our savior and Lord, that the HS at that time is a part of us.

Yes, we ARE instructed to be baptized....but it's not a "requirement" to receive God in you....like what I am understanding some of you are saying.

I'm sorry if this doesn't quite make sense...I'm a little tired, but wanted to speak while my thought was fresh.
Hi Avillianna,
Welcome to the BDF! :) one piece of advice is to pray before coming in here. Not just a prayer as you log in, but spend-time-with-God prayer, and then come cautiously, but with an open heart to new ideas. Other people are a great resource in that they may have sought something out that you may not have even heard of yet. Also some may be dangerously wrong and not know it. Please remember that they all, like yourself, are human.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,844
703
113
The Holy Sprit enters our hearts at the moment we accept Christ as our savior and invite him into our lives, not when we are baptized. Baptism is simply a public declaration that you intend to live like God intends us to live, that you do in fact believe in him, and that you want to profess this to the world.
Avillianna,

There are 4 outpourings of the Holy Ghost in the bible recorded in play-by-play fashion. (Acts 2, Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19) You currently have an idea of when the Holy Ghost is poured out. Have you compared your idea to what actually happened in the bible to see if your idea matches the biblical accounts?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Avillianna

Junior Member
May 20, 2018
15
7
3
Hi Avillianna,
Welcome to the BDF! :) one piece of advice is to pray before coming in here. Not just a prayer as you log in, but spend-time-with-God prayer, and then come cautiously, but with an open heart to new ideas. Other people are a great resource in that they may have sought something out that you may not have even heard of yet. Also some may be dangerously wrong and not know it. Please remember that they all, like yourself, are human.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
....I wasn't aware I did anything wrong....
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,844
703
113
....I wasn't aware I did anything wrong....
LOL I wasn't saying you did anything wrong. I was saying that for your protection. :) This place can be hard on people.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,844
703
113
Stunnedbygrace,
I'm very willing.
I was driving to work in my car. The night before I had talked to God about a problem a neighbor was having and I asked Him if there was anything I could do to help her, would He tell me how. She had come over and been crying uncontrollably over the situation and I felt awful to see her so upset.

So I was driving along and I remembered talking to Him the night before and at that second was when the feeling came on me and it was unlike any feeling I'd ever felt. Ever! And at the same time, all this understanding about her situation instantly came to me. It didn't come to me through pondering. It was just instantly in my head, all explained. And I was happy and excited and I said: I'll tell her as soon as I get home!

And then I was marveling over what I was feeling - like warm water being poured over me and through me and goosebumps even though it was over 80 degrees that morning.

And then I started to think about telling her that God told me what was happening to her and why and I was stricken with fear that she would laugh at me or think I was crazy. And I wasn't willing to be thought crazy or have people saying I was crazy. So I said: wait a minute. I don't know for sure that was from You. I'm not going to tell her all of this unless you let me know for sure it was You and not just my own mind.

Just then traffic came to a standstill on the parkway and I sat for a long time, basking in this wonderful new feeling and crying and just marveling over it, and also reiterating to Him that unless He let me know for sure it was from Him, I was refusing to tell it to her. Finally traffic started moving again and I noticed the license plate of the car I had been behind.
It was: HVN SNT. When I noticed it, the feeling intensified and just came in wave after wave, without ebbing at times as it had been doing previously.

So I said, okay, that's it. I'll tell her, even though she will think I'm crazy. And I told her and all of my neighbors shunned me within days and the womans husband wouldn't allow his children to even come into my yard or talk to me anymore and my own husband thought I was crazy and it went downhill from there, culminating in just...really bad situation all around that I won't get totally into. But I never regretted telling her even though I cried some tears at my whole life being ripped apart. Being so thoroughly shunned by everyone you've known for years, including your own husband is a staggering thing at first. It happens before you completely die to the world, so it's...distressing.
Stunnedbygrace,

If you don't mind me asking.... When did you receive the Holy Ghost?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,844
703
113
1 Cor 13 does not address all the gifts. 1 Cor 13 addresses only three gifts. These three have ended.
Roger,

Have you considered that the gifts will be done away "then" because "then" we will know as we are known (fully, not 'in part'). Preaching and teaching will cease because there's no need to teach what is already known in full.

Same way with Healings. No need to heal when even death has been done away with. Healings also shall cease.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
God isn't the one that uses tongues. We do. The Bible gives reasons what they are to be used for. When done by an individual, he is edified (1 Cor 14:4; Jude 20). When done in the church and interpreted, the church is edified (1 Cor 14:5). We know that when we speak in tongues we are praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14-15), something we are encouraged to always do (Eph 6:18). When we speak in tongues we are giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17). We are speaking the wonderful works of God, magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46). There are more. Not to mention that God says via Paul He would like all Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5). And while some may consider Paul to be somewhat egotistical when he said we are to be followers of him, I think he was writing by revelation, and Paul spoke in tongues more than the whole Corinthian church put together.


Why? There are certainly churches that don't follow Paul's instruction (everyone speaking at once, nobody interpreting), but they are speaking in tongues.

If you're talking about people getting "slain in the spirit", knocked down or knocked out, uncontrollable "holy laughter", and other things like that, then I agree. Those things are not biblical.


Could be, but not relevant to what is available to Christians right now.
Again, i disagree, you can believe what you want, i have been to a pentecostal church, what you call edification i call confusion, nonsense, and sillyness, what purpose does it serve? I have yet to find one,the purpose god used tongues for in the nt church is finished, the church is established, the bible is complete, prophetic words are no longer needed, every time god started something it always was filled with many signs and miracles, once established, those signs usually faded, because they were no longer needed, thats why i said, when tribulation starts, i see them returning, there will be a purpose,

Anyway, You think it is godly, feel free, thats your right, but don't judge people who disagree.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
821
113
Is that the same day as the event in the car?
No. It was some time later but (this is a little embarrassing) I don't know exactly how much time later. I was in my house and didn't leave it for some amount of time after I could first see. I estimate it to be not more than 3 weeks. Just not certain. I lost a chunk of time in there because I didn't have any jobs scheduled and so didn't have to go out. During that time I voraciously read the whole bible. (I had read the gospels and sometime while reading them, I could suddenly see, but then I read the whole bible after I was able to stand up.)
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
Again, i disagree, you can believe what you want, i have been to a pentecostal church, what you call edification i call confusion, nonsense, and sillyness, what purpose does it serve? I have yet to find one,the purpose god used tongues for in the nt church is finished, the church is established, the bible is complete, prophetic words are no longer needed, every time god started something it always was filled with many signs and miracles, once established, those signs usually faded, because they were no longer needed, thats why i said, when tribulation starts, i see them returning, there will be a purpose,

Anyway, You think it is godly, feel free, thats your right, but don't judge people who disagree.
IOW, you are a cessationist.

Why not admit it? :)

what purpose does it serve?
I explained in some detail, with scripture references, the purpose of tongues.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
821
113
I'm not understanding how speaking in tongues builds up ones faith (edifies them.) I know a verse says it, I just don't understand how it is.