Baptism and holy spirit

[CS1]

It reads to me as if some were marveling that they were all hearing them speak in their own language but that some others mocked them, saying they were drunk.

I guess I always just thought their unbelief and mocking prevented their hearing their own language spoken as with the others. But it doesn't say that specifically. It was just how I comprehended what I read.

I could be wrong here, I think anything that is done supernaturally will seem foolish to those who are unsaved and unlearned . You will have those who will attack the parting of the red sea, Noah’s Ark, water to blood if They cannot explain it to satisfy their intellectual understanding or carnal mind. This is why The Holy Spirit empowered Peter to be a witness. And God confirmed His word with signs & wonders the3 main one was 3000 saved.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I could be wrong here, I think anything that is done supernaturally will seem foolish to those who are unsaved and unlearned

hmm...yes, I agree, but for the fact that He draws us and then opens our ears and eyes, we all at one time considered it all nonsense.
It seems to read as if some marveled and others mocked.

Lot's to think about with a fair amount of wonder ourselves when we read it!

 

[CS1]

hmm...yes, I agree, but for the fact that He draws us and then opens our ears and eyes, we all at one time considered it all nonsense.
It seems to read as if some marveled and others mocked.

Lot's to think about with a fair amount of wonder ourselves when we read it!

there were a lot of people there hearing 120 speaking at once in a bunch of languages . seems like it would be strange

 

[DJ2]

The greatest evidence of the existence of gravity does not come from a textbook but the prima facie that is all around us. In other words, things fall down not up.

The greatest evidence of the existence of the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit would not come from the Bible but from the world turned upside down instead of being right side up. (Acts 17:6) In other words the evidence would be impossible to hide.

There is no edification without truth.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

there were a lot of people there hearing 120 speaking at once in a bunch of languages . seems like it would be strange

We were discussing this earlier!
How the first instance of tongues we are given seemed to be more something to do with the ears of those present - a combination of a manifestation through the speakers AND the ears of the hearers. Because it reads as if they WEREN"T hearing a bunch of different languages being spoken but that each man was hearing only one language - their own! That was what they were marveling over.

And it oddly reminded me of the whole "yanni" thing and how amazed I was when I played it for my mom and she heard a completely different thing being said!

Which then led me to thinking that when God confused their language at babel, this could be done by the hearing...not necessarily, but possible that He caused them to hear differently, like with that odd yanni phenomenon...

 

[Noose]

1 Cor 14:


1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

Noplace does Paul say people are to "speak in tongues only if someone else is given an interpretation".

1 Cor 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

Speaking in tongues and interpreting of tongues are two different gifts. The verse above says one is given one and another is given the other. It doesn't make sense if one person has both gifts; why would anyone speak something unknown if they have an interpretation? it is easier if they just go directly to the interpretation. That's why the two gifts should be given two people.

Paul has insisted on speaking things that are understood, so if tongues are spoken and there's no interpretation, the person needs to PRAY for an interpretation so that the church is edified. If not, Why pray for a gift that you already have?

1 Cor 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

The baseline is, the tongues as spoken today make no sense. The 'spirit' that has given many the ability to speak in tongues is yet to give a single person the ability to interpret. Show me where someone spoke and another interpreted and even that i'd doubt.
There's absolutely no reason to say that some are fake and some are real, all indicators point towards fake.

The same spirit that gave disciples /apostles the ability to raise the dead/ heal the sick- if there's no raising of the dead today there's absolutely no reason to believe these tongues are real either.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I can honestly picture two friends present that day. One of them speaks only Hebrew. The other friend speaks both Hebrew and Greek, with greek as his first language. So when they speak together, they can only do so in Hebrew.

Then the tongues start, and the man who knows both Hebrew and Greek hears Greek being spoken because that's his original tongue. So he begins to translate for his friend into Hebrew, and his friend says: what are you talking about? Shut up! I don't need an interpretation when they are plainly speaking in Hebrew!

Talk about marveling! HAHA!

 

[CS1]

The greatest evidence of the existence of gravity does not come from a textbook but the prima facie that is all around us. In other words, things fall down not up.

The greatest evidence of the existence of the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit would not come from the Bible but from the world turned upside down instead of being right side up. (Acts 17:6) In other words the evidence would be impossible to hide.

There is no edification without truth.

really have you heard of the law of flight ?


The law of gravity was overcome by a greater law. it was the God given desire placed in man that caused them to discover flight. If they just accepted the law of gravity man would never come to know the supernatural experience of flight.

"They shall Mount up with the wings as eagles". what a great application to flight to Mount UP!


There is no edification with scoffers either, and without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

[CS1]

1 Cor 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

Speaking in tongues and interpreting of tongues are two different gifts. The verse above says one is given one and another is given the other. It doesn't make sense if one person has both gifts; why would anyone speak something unknown if they have an interpretation? it is easier if they just go directly to the interpretation. That's why the two gifts should be given two people.

Paul has insisted on speaking things that are understood, so if tongues are spoken and there's no interpretation, the person needs to PRAY for an interpretation so that the church is edified. If not, Why pray for a gift that you already have?

1 Cor 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

The baseline is, the tongues as spoken today make no sense. The 'spirit' that has given many the ability to speak in tongues is yet to give a single person the ability to interpret. Show me where someone spoke and another interpreted and even that i'd doubt.
There's absolutely no reason to say that some are fake and some are real, all indicators point towards fake.

The same spirit that gave disciples /apostles the ability to raise the dead/ heal the sick- if there's no raising of the dead today there's absolutely no reason to believe these tongues are real either.

that is your opinon : you should do a studied on edification and what prophecy is in context to the book of Acts and the gifts of the Holy Spirit in chapters 12, 13, and 14 of 1cor

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It's true that speaking in tongues and interpretation of various tongues are listed as two different gifts. But that isn't to say that one person cannot walk in more than one gift sometimes, right?

I mean, paul himself spoke in tongues and ALSO healed.

So it's possible that one person could manifest tongues and also manifest interpretation of various tongues...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I kind of miss being able to look at the bottom and see who is currently in the room...

 

[DJ2]

To everyone who believes they have physical supernatural abilities from God; "that is your opinon".

Also air flight is not a supernatural event.

 

[CS1]

To everyone who believes they have physical supernatural abilities from God; "that is your opinon".

Also air flight is not a supernatural event.

Ok, it is natural for man to fly lol. And it is your opinion. LOL Your pride has blinded you . Did God create the "Law of Gravity ">?

And if God created the Law of Gravity which has to be an absalute right? Now man can override a law of God?

you see you say you want proof of the supernatural yet you do not even accept what is already welknown the Law of Flight. is a greater law that God has allowed man to discover.

Jesus too has a greater Law. Because a Law of God can only be surpassed by a greater Law. Matt 5, 6, and 7 give this insight

When Jesus said " Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: MATT 5:21

Jesus is speaking of an absalute Law of God . When Jesus said " verse 22

"22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


"But I say to you"
Jesus just raised the standard of that LAW. to a greater one. Now Jesus addressed the issue of hate in the heart of man.

 

[notuptome]

let me show you I can spell too, I have more than one modern translation . And in each of them none of them say the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away with because of the bible being created. And you have no support scripturally

For your assertion:

notuptome
"The Holy Spirit ministers in the church but three gifts have ended being replaced by the completion of Gods revelation our bible."

"OT is related to the veil of the temple which was rent in twain. NT makes the holy of holies accessible to the believer where it was closed off to them in the OT. This goes directly to the that which is in part being done away."


LOL wow absolutely not. That was in context to the atonement & Law. Jesus is the reason why we are now able to come to the holy of holies. You are suggesting your understanding got you in of Gods word . That is wrong on some many levels . The " holy of holies is the Presence of God . Hebrews 10 speaks even more clearly to 1cor 13:8-10 look at the parallels


The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

continue :

5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”a

continue :

8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

LOL While your discourse on the sacrifice of Christ is quite correct it does not take away from the "perfect" of I Cor 13:10 being the completed word of God. In fact it strengthens the argument.

It is only through the complete word of God that Paul or any other believer can see themselves as known of Christ.

1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Tongues were never given to the NT church for the enhancement of one believer over another. This was apparently a problem in the church at Corinth.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Paul encourages the Corinthians in 1 Cor 14:20 to not be children but in understanding be men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

LOL While your discourse on the sacrifice of Christ is quite correct it does not take away from the "perfect" of I Cor 13:10 being the completed word of God. In fact it strengthens the argument.

It is only through the complete word of God that Paul or any other believer can see themselves as known of Christ.

1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Tongues were never given to the NT church for the enhancement of one believer over another. This was apparently a problem in the church at Corinth.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Paul encourages the Corinthians in 1 Cor 14:20 to not be children but in understanding be men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

only with your bias would you think it strengthens your arugment . And now you bring the old strawman back from the dead again LOL. "Tongues were never given to the NT church for the enhancement of one believer over another"

Nor has anyone said that or believes that. Paul also said Do not forbid speaking in Tongues too. You missed that huh?.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It's true that speaking in tongues and interpretation of various tongues are listed as two different gifts. But that isn't to say that one person cannot walk in more than one gift sometimes, right?

I mean, paul himself spoke in tongues and ALSO healed.

So it's possible that one person could manifest tongues and also manifest interpretation of various tongues...

They are listed as manifestations of the spirit . . . Speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues go hand and hand in the church - speaking in tongues as an individual - edifies the individual but speaking in tongues in the church needs to be interpreted in order that the church is edified.

We can walk in the power of all nine manifestations . . . . But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man for the common good - what is the common good? edifying oneself - building up oneself spiritually and for the edification of the church.

Yes, it is probable that if one speaks in tongues in the church, he will interpret - God gives the language and also gives the interpretation.

I kind of miss being able to look at the bottom and see who is currently in the room... . . . I miss that too

 

[DJ2]

Humans do not fly. They do not fly naturally or supernaturally. There is nothing supernatural about flying in a plane. Labeling air flight as a supernatural event is silly.

Once again, where is the presumptive evidence of what has and is currently being claimed? I grow tried of your coyness.

 

[CS1]

Humans do not fly. They do not fly naturally or supernaturally. There is nothing supernatural about flying in a plane. Labeling air flight as a supernatural event is silly.

Once again, where is the presumptive evidence of what has and is currently being claimed? I grow tried of your coyness.

I see you avoid the real question concerning flight that was smart on your part.

You do agree that man can override the Law of Gravity? That man is the one who hold the cosmos in complete order not God. And the “Law of gravity” is not supernatural ? And God is not Supernatural by your understanding either?
if you are so tried why do you go out of your way to speak about this thread or anything of God ?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Humans do in fact fly sometimes. When I see a spider, I fly. Pretty sure my feet don't even touch the ground...

And then after I calm down I rebuke the spider. I rebuke it with my shoe over and over and over again.

The spider knows he's standing on holy cow ground when he sees me take my shoe off.

 

[CS1]

God IS Supernatural because God is .. yet He cannot be seen yet God is…. because of His creation; we know God IS. Roman chapter 1 speaks on this. Also His word tell us HE IS the Self-existing One. HE is beyond our natural understanding Because God is Supernatural gen 1 says in the Beginning God.