Baptism with the Holy Spirit and eternal salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,481
184
63
#1
I would like to know how these are linked together in scripture.

I see in scripture in the likes of Acts , these are most often already converted believers being empowered rather than getting initially saved.

Your input?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
3,125
966
113
#2
I am also looking forward to input about this. Scripture tells of people receiving the holy spirit, but it often accomplishes baptism. Do we receive the holy spirit when we accept Christ as our savior or does it follow a ceremony?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
5,317
896
113
#3
I would like to know how these are linked together in scripture.

I see in scripture in the likes of Acts , these are most often already converted believers being empowered rather than getting initially saved.

Your input?
I think many people like to use the Book of Acts to form church doctrine, which is problematic because it was meant as an account of the fall of the nation Israel, in the eyes of God, and the rise of gentiles thru that fall.

It is summed up by the ending of Acts 28:25-28
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,120
543
113
#4
I would like to know how these are linked together in scripture.

I see in scripture in the likes of Acts , these are most often already converted believers being empowered rather than getting initially saved.

Your input?
Subsequent after the giving of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 all believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,679
4,172
113
#5
Subsequent after the giving of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 all believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
Credit should be given to all those folks mentioned in the Word who believed before receiving the Holy Spirit.

In my own personal walk I received the Holly Spirit and then was given to know Jesus, Yeshua.

Many are mentioned who received faith before receiving the Holy Spirit.
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,897
14,994
113
#6
Credit should be given to all those folks mentioned in the Word who believed before receiving the Holy Spirit.

In my own personal walk I received the Holly Spirit and then was given to know Jesus, Yeshua.

Many are mentioned who received faith before receiving the Holy Spirit.
Baptism of the HS

Rom 6: 3
1 cor 12: 13
Gal 3: 27
Col 2: 11-15

someone who is not baptized in the Hs is not saved
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,897
14,994
113
#7
Ps recieving the HS is to be anointed by the spirit, it is different fro the baptism of the spirit,

to anoint is to pour on or come in

to baptizes is to immerse someone in

people mix up these two terms and end up misunderstanding what the baptism is
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,120
543
113
#8
Credit should be given to all those folks mentioned in the Word who believed before receiving the Holy Spirit.

In my own personal walk I received the Holly Spirit and then was given to know Jesus, Yeshua.

Many are mentioned who received faith before receiving the Holy Spirit.
We cannot recieve The Holy Spirit before we believe the Gospel . eph 1.13-14 . And lost people don't have to sit around waiting to be given special hindu like sprinkles of enabling power to be able to believe the Gospel . The Gospel is just fine on its own to be believed by every man ,woman and child .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,120
543
113
#9
Credit should be given to all those folks mentioned in the Word who believed before receiving the Holy Spirit.

In my own personal walk I received the Holly Spirit and then was given to know Jesus, Yeshua.

Many are mentioned who received faith before receiving the Holy Spirit.
In my own personal walk I received the Holly Spirit and then was given to know Jesus, Yeshua.//// not possible. You could only have received the Holy Spirit After you believed . Eph 1.13
 

Corban

Active member
Jun 11, 2020
532
229
43
69
#10
I would like to know how these are linked together in scripture.

I see in scripture in the likes of Acts , these are most often already converted believers being empowered rather than getting initially saved.

Your input?
Your assessment is correct. The Holy Spirit is given for TWO reasons:
  1. For causing a man to be born again and have God's divine LIFE. This is an intrinsic condition of a man who wants to be in the image and likeness of God (Rom.8:29). Eve, in order to be like Adam, and up to his standard, must be bone and flesh of Adam - that is, be one in nature
  2. For giving a weak man the POWER to be successful in serving God. In both Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:8 the result of "waiting" in Jerusalem was "POWER" for preaching "... repentance and remission of sins in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" as "... witnesses of these things."
God made man lower than the angels (Ps.8, Heb.2) ...
  1. to be in His image and likeness. This takes a Godly nature IN Man
  2. to subdue and reign on the earth. This takes POWER.
The Greek word for being filled INWARDLY is different from the word for being INDUED, or "furnished". It is the same Holy Spirit. He fills the spirit of man to produce godliness. He immerses the man for SERVICE. A policeman eats breakfast so that he is strengthened INSIDE for duty. But he puts ON his uniform for POWER of his mandate.

There were TWO givings of the SAME Holy Spirit 50 days apart - one for LIFE and the other for POWER.
.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,679
4,172
113
#11
In my own personal walk I received the Holly Spirit and then was given to know Jesus, Yeshua.//// not possible. You could only have received the Holy Spirit After you believed . Eph 1.13
I reply to this folly. Af ter my heart wa broken by the callous treatment of the people of Biafra and the Viet Nam tragedy, along with dozens of other inhumanities having been put upon others, I closed myself in a room resolved not to leave nor eat until I had some kind of resolution for myself.

Raising my hands to the heavens I said, :You are Who You are, if you are good and if there is some kind of good coming out of all of this evil, I would like to know you, and perhaps even serve you.: Falling into a deep sleep I was given a dream informing me of what was about to occur in my life.. I awoke, and everything seemed new to me, so new that even the cars on the sstreet seemed somewhat alien to me.

I went to the Student Union on my campus, and I told a good friend about this experience which he listened to intently but no commentary. Afterwards, walking across the quadrangle of he university, I was prayer talking to You Are Who You are, thinking and saying, "gee man is awaful," over and over again. Suddenly, in an instant I realized and said, "Hey I am a man, and I form part of that horrir, You are It." Everything turned to Light and the Light entered into me.
Then the Father led me to Jesus, by putting a Bible in my possesion already opened. Iread a bit, saying over and over again, that ist is true. Looking up I saw on the pages I was reading Isaiah. Every time I read more, I said it is true.

The Father took me to Jesus, Yeshua. I did not know about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was 25, and up until that moment whenever I had attempted to read the Word, I could not even finish one line for it was gibberish to me. Since that moment it all makes sense, and I have been very sad for the manner in which our Savior, Yeshua, has been lied about since Paul.

Now you go ahead and tell me, and all they are not saved because of your contrived dogma, but I will always believe for not asking for them I received on sign after an other ,miracles, healings, and more just to underscore and reinforced the faith given me by the Father.

You go ahead and judge the souls of others by saying impossible. It is obvious you cannot understand that our Maker is All Mighty..........
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,494
5,485
113
#12
I would like to know how these are linked together in scripture.
The baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit poured out upon the believer (Acts 2:38). And when God gives the believing and repentant sinner that gift, He SIMULTANEOUSLY gives him the gift of eternal life (which is Christ within).

Jesus said unto her, I am The Resurrection, and The Life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26)

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev 3:20)
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
156
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#13
The account with Cornelius gives an important detail.

Acts 10:47
“Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?”
 

Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
339
141
43
#14
Amen.. that is exactly what Christ said. "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

He said before this "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
They were all saved. All 120 waiting.. Christ did what He said in Luke 11 13.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,120
543
113
#15
The Acts of the Apostles is a historical narrative . Its an account of course of the Acts of the Apostles . As such we see the transitions taking place here ,so its not a book primarly for church doctrines and the normative experience for today . Today ,after we believe we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. We are ' baptised ' by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ . 1 cor 12.13 / Eph 1.13'14 .
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,481
184
63
#16
So what I'm seeing from you all mostly is there is a kind of figurative HS baptism at salvation. I still though dont see this this in scripture.

Being empowered by the Holy Spirit isn't the same as being sealed for eternal salvation.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,120
543
113
#17
So what I'm seeing from you all mostly is there is a kind of figurative HS baptism at salvation. I still though dont see this this in scripture.

Being empowered by the Holy Spirit isn't the same as being sealed for eternal salvation.
From Paul's letters I can only see it all is in one experience. After a person believes all that is necessary for salvation happens at that time . Of course how we walk is a different matter .
 

Nao

Member
Jun 3, 2020
48
56
18
www.youtube.com
#18
There's only one episode where salvation and baptism with the Holy Spirit were at the same time and the same day, and we find it in Acts chapter 10.
The bible says that Cornelius had a vision of an angel of the Lord calling him so he sent three of his servants to Joppa where Peter was.
After this, Peter fell into a trance,

[Acts 10:11-15, 19-20
11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has [f]cleansed you must not call common.”
19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are seeking you. 20 Arise therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.” ]

Notice that the Lord said to Peter doubting nothing, because according to the tradition Peter could not enter or have communion with gentiles so he went. And

[Acts 10:44-47
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And [o]those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”]

So the conclusion is that they needed a clear sign that they had received god because they were gentiles and even peter doubted.
This is the only one episode in which they are same time accomplished, otherwise the bible says salvation needed first.
P.S. God is the king of all, He can move as He wants.
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
156
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#19
The point I wanted to make is that Cornelius and his people received holy spirit before they were baptized. I think it's the only instance where someone received holy spirit before baptism instead of some time after baptism.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,120
543
113
#20
The point I wanted to make is that Cornelius and his people received holy spirit before they were baptized. I think it's the only instance where someone received holy spirit before baptism instead of some time after baptism.
Are you not referring to water though ?