Baptizing babies.?...!

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FrankLee

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2016
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#1
I find my spirit agitated whenever I see a video of a baby being "baptized". That is being sprinkled with water or a water pistol filled with Holy water or some other method. Unless the baby has a good bath out of the ordeal the entire affair has been an exercise in spiritual futility. Babies are tiny little things but the error of calling their sprinkling a baptism is not tiny but large. It's only one thorn on the thornbush of dead religion.

Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

First you have to believe. I'd be greatly amazed should an infant believe let alone be able to express that belief.

Supposedly mature men in the glamorous robes of their office doing what? A traditional ritual having nothing to do with salvation. They really think that it's beneficial, scriptural which completely stupefies me. They are not even aware that they themselves are unredeemed and are passing on their dead traditions to another generation.

One of the strongest words Jesus ever spoke to me was one night as I prayed outside up in a cleared out spot on our place. I'd been praying for sometime and was about to go back to the house. As I went to leave He spoke and said so powerfully in my spirit "EVERY GENERATION I HAVE TO BEGIN ALL OVER AGAIN". It's so true. Every new batch of babies has never heard of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, sin or anything having to do with eternal life. God's work begins again and He must work through new generations of believers.

My baptism to me was a serious affair several months after I had been visited by Jesus, saved then baptized in the Holy Spirit. This gave me time to learn more about it. My dear brother Jimmy just a few years younger, was baptized with me. It was a cold winter's day and we had to break ice an inch thick on those Arkansas River backwaters. My wife told me I had a visible glow when I came home. That's the way a baptism should be. The glow, less the icy waters of course.

At what point did these infants make their profession of faith? Why would a rational adult be intimidated by the traditions of their denomination so that the Scriptures of the Bible are tread under foot? Once again tradition trumping the word of God. How many infants do we see being baptized in the new testament? Surely the fear of man brings a snare! Do I make too much of this practice? Which part of evil are we to ignore?

Proverbs 29:25 (NKJV)
The fear of man brings a snare,
But whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe.




Tevye in fiddler on the roof said it with authority, "TRADITION"! That's it. He was Jewish of course but the plague of the fear of men sees no cultural or spiritual lines. Peer pressure is a powerful influence. Even deadly. The spirit gives life the letter kills.

I realize that the men who perform such acts are not born again Christians but labor under the false beliefs of their religion. The blind sprinkling the newly arrived. God said it first;

Isaiah 29:13 (NKJV)

Therefore the Lord said:

“Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,

The ignorant and unsaved ministers of these dead denominations practice the same empty rituals on so called adults. My unsaved mother in law, now deceased, was "baptized" by her unsaved Methodist pastor by dipping a rose into Methodist holy water and spring her with it. Now, isn't that just about the sweetest thing you ever heard of? Land o' Goshen! Frighteningly, an entire building full of ignorant people sat and nodded their approval. No one was benefitted of course. My wonderful wife continued to minister to the poor ignorant woman and a change was seen in her before death. We can only hope she really met Jesus.


After being childless for 14 long lonely years Jesus saved me, baptized me in the Holy Spirit, gave me the gift of tongues and began to speak to my wife and I regarding the son He was going to send us. We were amazed and excited. My wife's body was allergic to my seed and killed it on contact. The doctors could do nothing but Jesus could. Many afflictions awaited us before God's promise was fulfilled but certainly it was. We met much ridicule, unbelief and cold indifference but Jesus my wife and I had the last laugh. One thing He said to me was so great, "the mouths of the scoffs will be shut at the telling" and they were! On October 9th,1979 the Holy Spirit told me Martha was pregnant. The lab agreed. Nathan, our promise from God, was born on June 25,1980.



Nathan is a spirit filled Christian, minister and student of Israel. God did good!

As our children were born we dedicated each and every one of them to the God who sent them, Jesus is His first name. They were not sprinkled, spritzed, dunked, squirter, deluged or drizzled. They were anointed by their father - me - with oil and prayed for. Also by the elders of our church. They all came to know Jesus at an early age and after that were baptized in the good old Biblical John the Baptist method of going under then coming back up.

After experiencing all of this and cheerfully pouring our lives into our God given children, it's impossible to sit and be silent. They casually with non-existant authority say that this is a directive of the savior.




Our surviving children serve God to this day. Joanna, born after Nathan, became a Christian at about five years of age and there was no doubt she knew Him! She died at fifteen thanks to a drinking driver. But glory to God we'll all be rejoined for eternity it in the place He's made for us.



Joanna's last Christmas, December 1996.

As I have opportunity I will denounce the ways of religion and dead denominations that deceive, stumble and lead astray multitudes. If our government isn't able to have the babies aborted and stand up for the women that kill them, then dead denominations lead those children astray from the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's way too late in my journey to nod in agreement with things I know are not right just to smooth things over.

Psalms 94:16 (NKJV)
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers?
Who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

Evil doers? But they're dressed so nice, so clean and have such wonderful manners. The things they say are so sweet! Satan never comes as a snarling rabid beast but as an angel of light. Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean we have to coo like doves. That's not love.


Psalm 55:21 KJVS
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

If the truth is an affront to someone's actions then it will cause anger and resentment to rise up in them every time. Hopefully the false teachers that practice these things against the word of God will be able to see the light of the gospel and be convicted and saved. Believers must be willing to speak out against error and leave their place of silent anonymity.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#3
A baby does not need to be baptized.

We are sinners,but we are born with a clean record,and Adam and Eve's sin does not affect us in the sense their sin is upon us,for God said all people will bear their own sins,but when they ate off the tree,then all their offspring,the rest of humanity,has a choice between good and evil,so they are born not knowing God,and will do wrong before they come to God.

We are born innocent until later on when we can decipher correctly evil,that is wrong,the age of accountability.

Which is why the Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones,for they are always protected spiritually by angels,and angels are sent to minister to those that shall inherit eternal life.

A baby does not need to be baptized to try to erase the original sin of Adam and Eve,for it does not exist in our lives,that is their sin,and a baby must first realize it is a sinner,and believe the truth,before baptism is effective,for the baby has not sinned yet,and is innocent.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#4
you are definitely on you way, but still have a lot to learn about this 'fallen-world's ways,
of Honoring our Blessed Saviour...GBY
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
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#5
Amen, Frank! So sorry to hear about your daughter. What rejoicing there will be when you see her again!
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
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#6
Infant baptism is just one of the many reasons i am not a catholic anymore..
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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#7
Amen, Frank! So sorry to hear about your daughter. What rejoicing there will be when you see her again!
I missed that bit of text first time around!
Yes, terrible tragedy and my condolences to you and your family.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#8
Some people believe you can't go to heaven unless you are baptized, so they baptize their babies.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
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#9
Some people believe you can't go to heaven unless you are baptized, so they baptize their babies.
That's where it all came from... Human thinking.. That if a person is not dunked in water or sprinkled with water in some ceremony then they will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.. An unbiblical teaching.. But one embraced by millions..
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#10
A baby does not need to be baptized.
Agreed.


We are sinners,but we are born with a clean record,and Adam and Eve's sin does not affect us in the sense their sin is upon us,for God said all people will bear their own sins,but when they ate off the tree,then all their offspring,the rest of humanity,has a choice between good and evil,so they are born not knowing God,and will do wrong before they come to God.

We are born innocent until later on when we can decipher correctly evil,that is wrong,the age of accountability.
Where does it say we are born with a clean slate and also innocent? Where is this mythical 'age of accountability? They're nowhere in the bible. David said Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.[SUP] [/SUP]Their venom is like the venom of a snake, like that of a cobra that has stopped its ears,[SUP] [/SUP]that will not heed the tune of the charmer, however skillful the enchanter may be.Psalm 58:3-5] And also Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.[SUP] [/SUP]Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.[Psalm 51:5,6] We sin because we ARE sinners, not becoming sinners after we sin.

Which is why the Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones,for they are always protected spiritually by angels,and angels are sent to minister to those that shall inherit eternal life.
Babies die due to being found guilty in Adam. The rebellion of Adam in the fall resulted in death for all mankind. The wages of sins is death[Romans 6:23], so if a baby is born innocent, it can't die, seeing that sin brings forth death.[Romans 6:23 & James 1:15]

A baby does not need to be baptized to try to erase the original sin of Adam and Eve,for it does not exist in our lives,that is their sin,and a baby must first realize it is a sinner,and believe the truth,before baptism is effective,for the baby has not sinned yet,and is innocent.
Babies are NOT innocent in God's eyes. David, under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, testified to something way different than you. I'll side with David.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
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#11
We know that even Jesus was blessed as a baby. There is a difference between infant baptism and the blessing of a child.

We bless the babies in our church and it is special to see.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#12
That's where it all came from... Human thinking.. That if a person is not dunked in water or sprinkled with water in some ceremony then they will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.. An unbiblical teaching.. But one embraced by millions..
They seemed to think baptism was important back in the days of Jesus and John the Baptist. I think it is symbolic of what will happen to us as we walk with Jesus. I don't think it is necessary for salvation, but I would encourage people to get baptized.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#13
A baby does not need to be baptized.

We are sinners,but we are born with a clean record,and Adam and Eve's sin does not affect us in the sense their sin is upon us,for God said all people will bear their own sins,but when they ate off the tree,then all their offspring,the rest of humanity,has a choice between good and evil,so they are born not knowing God,and will do wrong before they come to God.

We are born innocent until later on when we can decipher correctly evil,that is wrong,the age of accountability.
There is no scripture to support that, but there is scripture testifying to the sinner soon as they are born.

Psalm 58:[SUP]3 [/SUP]The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Which is why the Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones,for they are always protected spiritually by angels,and angels are sent to minister to those that shall inherit eternal life.
Although I am sure that verse can be applied to the children as the little ones, but Jesus was referring to new believers in Christ which can include adults. Proof is here in regards to little ones.. the lost sheep.. and then the brehtren caught in a trespass.

Matthew 18:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP]12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP]13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

This also speaks to the pre raptured event as the Lord will excommunicate those not abiding in Him, but because they are still His, He will get that one lost sheep. So moreover, when we catch a brother in a trespass and he refuses to repent even before the church, and is excommunicated, then it is His turn to get that lost sheep that went astray as it is the Father's will that He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:39-40 ) which is why there will be vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity as they will be chastened by the Father to be received after the great tribulation.

A baby does not need to be baptized to try to erase the original sin of Adam and Eve,for it does not exist in our lives,that is their sin,and a baby must first realize it is a sinner,and believe the truth,before baptism is effective,for the baby has not sinned yet,and is innocent.
Baptizing a baby does not erase the original sin of Adam & Eve. Preaching the gospel to the baby in the hopes that the Father will reveal His Son to the baby... is. Jesus said so...

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Of all the times parents wished they had their children under a captive audience, now is the time when they are infants. They sing lullabies to them and they talk to them....why not preach the Good News to them so that the Father may reveal His Son to them so they can believe?

I can remember being an infant and understanding what was being said but I could not talk yet.

And since it is the Father the opens the eyes and the ears so we can see and hear the Truth, parents should apply faith in God and preach the gospel to them, but water baptism certainly does not do anything. My former church uses it as a ceremony of showing dedication of the parents to the baby in raising him or her up godly, but like so many parents, they do not preach the Good News to the babies. They wait to start their dedication later on when the child can converse, and even then, most will wait, fearing that they will not understand.

Only God can enable them to receive spiritual matters and wisdom in the first place.. baby or an adult. So preach.
 

Kavik

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2017
793
158
43
#14
With respect to infant baptism, it seems to boil down to a matter of a differentiation of beliefs – In the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox (as well as Oriental Orthodox and many Protestant denominations) world, baptism is viewed as a sacrament whilst in many more modern Christian denominations it is not viewed as such. It appears to also hinge a lot on the view of ‘original sin’.

Here’s a short summary from an internet source:

As some Christian denominations see it, baptism is not a sacrament (in the true sense of the word), but an ordinance. It does not in any way convey the grace it symbolizes; rather, it is merely a public manifestation of the person’s conversion. Since only an adult or older child can be converted, baptism is inappropriate for infants or for children who have not yet reached the age of reason (generally considered to be about age seven). Most Christian denominations say that during the years before they reach the age of reason infants and young children are automatically saved. Only once a person reaches the age of reason does he need to "accept Jesus" in order to reach heaven.

Since the New Testament era, the Catholic Church (as well as the Eastern Orthodox Church) has always understood baptism differently, teaching that it is a sacrament which accomplishes several things, the first of which is the remission of sin, both original sin and actual sin—only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin; and both original and actual sin in the case of older persons.

So, it seems some Christian traditions hold that everyone is born with the 'stain of original sin' while other Christian traditions hold to the tradition that this is not the case.

As an interesting historical aside, not baptizing an infant was actually a crime punishable by some rather stiff fines.

In Anglo Saxon England, there was a king of Wessex named ‘Ine’ (ruled 688-695) who decreed a bunch of laws. It so happens that documents recording his laws still exist (called, yep, you guessed it…”Ine’s Laws”).These laws were the first in Anglo-Saxon England and later reiterated and added to by King Alfred (“The Great”) in the 800's.

One of Ine’s laws had to do with baptizing a child and went something like this – I’m paraphrasing here and going by memory, but essentially.…

“A child must be baptized within 30 days of its birth else the father (or guardian) of the child shall pay 30 shillings. If the child should die before being baptized, the father (or guardian) of said child shall pay with everything he owns.”

Needless to say, 30 shillings (almost $4,000 in today’s money!) to an English peasant around 690 AD was an absolutely astronomical sum of money (for comparison, the price of a cow was about 1 shilling) – and to forfeit everything he owned, a virtual death sentence.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
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#15
They seemed to think baptism was important back in the days of Jesus and John the Baptist. I think it is symbolic of what will happen to us as we walk with Jesus. I don't think it is necessary for salvation, but I would encourage people to get baptized.
This discussion is about '''INFANT baptisim"" not about water baptism in general... Jesus was never baptized as an infant.. He was baptized as a grown adult about 30 years old..
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#16
This discussion is about '''INFANT baptisim"" not about water baptism in general... Jesus was never baptized as an infant.. He was baptized as a grown adult about 30 years old..
Some people think you can't get to heaven unless you are baptized. Therefore, some people baptize their babies.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#18
Has nothing to do with Catholicism. Plenty of protestants to it as well.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#19
Has nothing to do with Catholicism. Plenty of protestants to it as well.
Who started it? These mixed up protestants who baptize infants are following the lead of the Roman Catholic church.
 
D

DarkRose

Guest
#20
Agreed.




Where does it say we are born with a clean slate and also innocent? Where is this mythical 'age of accountability? They're nowhere in the bible. David said Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.Their venom is like the venom of a snake, like that of a cobra that has stopped its ears,that will not heed the tune of the charmer, however skillful the enchanter may be.Psalm 58:3-5] And also Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.[Psalm 51:5,6] We sin because we ARE sinners, not becoming sinners after we sin.



Babies die due to being found guilty in Adam. The rebellion of Adam in the fall resulted in death for all mankind. The wages of sins is death[Romans 6:23], so if a baby is born innocent, it can't die, seeing that sin brings forth death.[Romans 6:23 & James 1:15]



Babies are NOT innocent in God's eyes. David, under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, testified to something way different than you. I'll side with David.
so...if there is no age of accountability, and if babies are not innocent, does that mean babies go to hell after death?