Basic bible study -

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GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
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#81
Just FYI..........I bought a book awhile back that was the transation of the scipture found at Qunram (sp).........lots of gaps of course because of damage to the scrolls, but what WAS translated was exactly what we find in our old testaments so I think we can be confident in the fidelity of the transcribers to the ancient texts.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#82
Its not about what is easier to say to somebody who is not informed, but what are facts.

You have the problem with "God says" as I do. Because you do not have some perfect version of the Bible while I have it not ;-)

I realize and admit facts, both to myself and to others. I can also choose some 21st century print of the Bible and shout to everybody "look, infallible word of God", but it would not make it to be truth.
I havent found a mistake in the KJV bible yet. Show me one!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#83
Now I know why you believe in evolution. :D
Evolution is not some kind of belief like "this is my life creed". I see it as probable and I have no problem with it, thats all.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#84
Evolution is not some kind of belief like "this is my life creed". I see it as probable and I have no problem with it, thats all.
I can show you a problem with it.

Genesis 1

Which one do you believe, Genesis 1 or some bonehead scientists (of science FALSELY so called) of the 20th century?

Darwin was studying to become a pastor, but due to tragic events in life he turned his back on God and became a God hater, therefore he came up with the evolution theory.
He had a motive to disprove the God he hated.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#85
I havent found a mistake in the KJV bible yet. Show me one!
Simply find an Old Testament quote in the New Testament and search for it in the Old Testament.

The KJV New testament uses mostly Septuagint for quotes and the KJV Old testament uses masoretic text which is diffrent from Septuagint. Therefore you will find many problems with it, when you begin to check it.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#86
Simply find an Old Testament quote in the New Testament and search for it in the Old Testament.

The KJV New testament uses mostly Septuagint for quotes and the KJV Old testament uses masoretic text which is diffrent from Septuagint. Therefore you will find many problems with it, when you begin to check it.
Show me one.

You should of noticed by now, im a very lazy man. :D
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#87
Show me one.

You should of noticed by now, im a very lazy man. :D

KJV New Testament:
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me"
Heb 10:5

KJV Old Testament:
"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened"
Psalm 40:6
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
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#88
KJV New Testament:
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me"
Heb 10:5

KJV Old Testament:
"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened"
Psalm 40:6
Well that shuts me up. I take this L
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
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#90
Does your KJV use EASTER instead of Passover?
The Jubilee Bible and the King James 2000 Bible have "Passover" in Acts 12:4:

Jubilee Bible 2000
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him, intending after the Passover to bring him forth to the people.

King James 2000 Bible
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him; intending after the passover to bring him forth to the people.

However, we should try to understand why the KJV 1611 translators used Easter. For at least 1300 years (perhaps 1400 years) before the KJV was translated "Easter" had become a Christian festival in the RCC and the EOC. It did not have any connection to paganism by then. And the feasts of Passover and Unleavened Bread were overlapped by the Easter season (commemorating the resurrection of Christ).

So as far as the English reader was concerned "Easter" and "Passover/Unleavened Bread" were interchangeable, and this was an interpretation of Pascha by the KJV translators .

But to counterbalance this, modern Bible versions have INTERPRETATIONS GALORE within their versions. Yet no one has taken that very seriously.

Let's take Matthew 1:1 as an example, where "the record" and "genealogy" and "the Messiah" are INTERPRETATIONS of the Greek text, which is faithfully translated by the KJV.

King James Bible
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
New International Version
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:
New American Standard Bible
The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

So what does the Greek text say?

RECEIVED TEXT
Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, υἱοῦ Δαβὶδ, υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ.

CRITICAL TEXT (NO DIFFERENCE other than spelling of David)
Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ υἱοῦ Δαυεὶδ υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ.

What is Βίβλος?

Strong's Concordance
biblos: (the inner) bark (of a papyrus plant), hence a scroll, spec. a book
Original Word: βίβλος, ου, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: biblos
Phonetic Spelling: (bib'-los)
Definition: (the inner) bark (of a papyrus plant), a scroll, a book
Usage: a written book, roll, or volume, sometimes with a sacred connotation. (not "this" or "the record".

What is γενέσεως ?
Thayer's Greek Lexicon (does not include "genealogy" which is a different Greek word)
STRONGS NT 1078: γένεσις

γένεσις, γενέσεως, ἡ (ΓΑΝΩ (Curtius, § 128)), in Greek writings for the first time in Homer, Iliad 14, 201 (cf. 246);

1. source, origin: βίβλος γενέσεως τίνος a book of one's lineage, i. e. in which his ancestry or his progeny are enumerated (equivalent to תּולְדות סֵפֶר, Genesis 5:1, etc.) (Matthew 1:1).

2. used of birth, nativity, in Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:14, for Rec. γέννησις (ἡμέραι τῆς γενέσεως μουequivalent to ἀφ' οὗ ἐγεννήθην, Judith 12:18 cf. 20);πρόσωπον τῆς γενέσεως his native (natural) face,James 1:23.

3. of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life: ὁτροχός τῆς γενέσεως the wheel (cf. Englishmachinery) of life, James 3:6 (cf. Grimm on Sap. vii. 5); but others explain it the wheel of human origin which as soon as men are born begins to run, i. e. the course (cf. English round) of life.

Therefore the KJV used "generation" accurately, meaning "source" or "origin".

Also "the Messiah" is AN INTERPRETATION, since the actual Greek word is Χριστοῦ (Christ). So we have three interpretations in the first sentence of the New Testament, but that is not remarkable. Only "Easter" is a problem!
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#91
The Jubilee Bible and the King James 2000 Bible have "Passover" in Acts 12:4:

Jubilee Bible 2000
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him, intending after the Passover to bring him forth to the people.

King James 2000 Bible
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him; intending after the passover to bring him forth to the people.

However, we should try to understand why the KJV 1611 translators used Easter. For at least 1300 years (perhaps 1400 years) before the KJV was translated "Easter" had become a Christian festival in the RCC and the EOC. It did not have any connection to paganism by then. And the feasts of Passover and Unleavened Bread were overlapped by the Easter season (commemorating the resurrection of Christ).

So as far as the English reader was concerned "Easter" and "Passover/Unleavened Bread" were interchangeable, and this was an interpretation of Pascha by the KJV translators .

But to counterbalance this, modern Bible versions have INTERPRETATIONS GALORE within their versions. Yet no one has taken that very seriously.

Let's take Matthew 1:1 as an example, where "the record" and "genealogy" and "the Messiah" are INTERPRETATIONS of the Greek text, which is faithfully translated by the KJV.

King James Bible
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
New International Version
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:
New American Standard Bible
The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

So what does the Greek text say?

RECEIVED TEXT
Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, υἱοῦ Δαβὶδ, υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ.

CRITICAL TEXT (NO DIFFERENCE other than spelling of David)
Βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ υἱοῦ Δαυεὶδ υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ.

What is Βίβλος?

Strong's Concordance
biblos: (the inner) bark (of a papyrus plant), hence a scroll, spec. a book
Original Word: βίβλος, ου, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: biblos
Phonetic Spelling: (bib'-los)
Definition: (the inner) bark (of a papyrus plant), a scroll, a book
Usage: a written book, roll, or volume, sometimes with a sacred connotation. (not "this" or "the record".

What is γενέσεως ?
Thayer's Greek Lexicon (does not include "genealogy" which is a different Greek word)
STRONGS NT 1078: γένεσις

γένεσις, γενέσεως, ἡ (ΓΑΝΩ (Curtius, § 128)), in Greek writings for the first time in Homer, Iliad 14, 201 (cf. 246);

1. source, origin: βίβλος γενέσεως τίνος a book of one's lineage, i. e. in which his ancestry or his progeny are enumerated (equivalent to תּולְדות סֵפֶר, Genesis 5:1, etc.) (Matthew 1:1).

2. used of birth, nativity, in Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:14, for Rec. γέννησις (ἡμέραι τῆς γενέσεως μουequivalent to ἀφ' οὗ ἐγεννήθην, Judith 12:18 cf. 20);πρόσωπον τῆς γενέσεως his native (natural) face,James 1:23.

3. of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life: ὁτροχός τῆς γενέσεως the wheel (cf. Englishmachinery) of life, James 3:6 (cf. Grimm on Sap. vii. 5); but others explain it the wheel of human origin which as soon as men are born begins to run, i. e. the course (cf. English round) of life.

Therefore the KJV used "generation" accurately, meaning "source" or "origin".

Also "the Messiah" is AN INTERPRETATION, since the actual Greek word is Χριστοῦ (Christ). So we have three interpretations in the first sentence of the New Testament, but that is not remarkable. Only "Easter" is a problem!
RIGHT..............THEY HAD TO CORRECT IT!!!!!!!!
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#92
I can show you a problem with it.

Genesis 1

Which one do you believe, Genesis 1 or some bonehead scientists (of science FALSELY so called) of the 20th century?

Darwin was studying to become a pastor, but due to tragic events in life he turned his back on God and became a God hater, therefore he came up with the evolution theory.
He had a motive to disprove the God he hated.
Have you read any edition of Origin of the Species?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
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#93
Have you read any edition of Origin of the Species?
I dont usually read satanic literature, so NO. Never have, never will

Look up Kent Hovind if you refuse to believe Genesis 1
He demolishes evolution in a simple and effective way
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#94
I dont usually read satanic literature, so NO. Never have, never will

Look up Kent Hovind if you refuse to believe Genesis 1
He demolishes evolution in a simple and effective way
The reason I asked is because had you done you would realize you misrepresented the truth about Charles Darwin and his opinion of God.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#96
Reading the the bible and studying the bible are two different things. We read for pleasure, we study for knowledge. Every student of the bible should have a 1. Translation of the Bible (not a paraphrase version)
2. Strong's Concordance
3. Dictionary
I use the Hermeneutic method, asking the who what when where why questions
Should also acquire at least some knowledge of customs and history of the times the bible was written
Rule to follow always, NEVER take a verse out of context. Context often determines the meaning of a word or words.
Scripture out of context is PRETEXT. Scripture picking is for the spiritually disabled.

Study to be approved as a workman who is able to handle accurately the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
I would add a history/timeline reference book is also helpful. Along with being a part of a serious discipleship program of bible study if you can find one that goes through the books of the Bible systemically and is longer than 6 weeks.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,926
13,607
113
#97
I use the Hermeneutic method, asking the who what when where why questions
i love this; it leads me to all kinds of things that i never even considered when i re-read passages, and the right questions open up the scripture in beautiful ways
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#99
If you want to spend so much time studying the Bible, then the question is why not to learn Greek to read it in original language instead of tuns of dictionaries.
Learning abother language is more time consuming than using a dictionary or lexicon.

I do believe the next level would be to take classes in those language, but not everyone has the time or money or means to do that.

I believe it's good for people to both read and study the Bible. I pray more people find the value in daily Bible ready and yearlong bibe studies with other dedicated Christains.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
When Strong's allows you to do multi-word concordance searches, provides instant comparisons with 40+ other translations, and links automatically to the original-language text(s) behind the translation, then I might consider that it has not been eclipsed. Technology has enabled several tools that Strong's doesn't provide.

Regarding your other comment, such generalized criticism is no different than slander.
As have said before, if you find I am lacking in knowledge from my preferred methods of study, then point them out to me.
If it ain't broke , don't try to fix it