Believe but no Holy Ghost? Believe -> sealed with the Holy Ghost

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,630
113
#1
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which one is it?

I personally felt God's presence when He saved me. BUT I got a much stronger presence AFTERWARDS.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
Not everyone feels the HS, if we are basing our conversion based on feeling we are in big trouble..

All the people in acts said is they have never heard of such a thing.. I do nto think one has to hear about him for him to enter in, If you in faith recieve christ as eph 1 says, then you will recieve the HS.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,630
113
#3
Not everyone feels the HS, if we are basing our conversion based on feeling we are in big trouble..

All the people in acts said is they have never heard of such a thing.. I do nto think one has to hear about him for him to enter in, If you in faith recieve christ as eph 1 says, then you will recieve the HS.
The context is they didnt receive it yet in Acts 19. REad it

It says: they got water baptized, then Paul put his hands on them and only AFTER Paul put his hands on them, they received the Spirit and spoke in tongues and prophecied!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
The context is they didnt receive it yet in Acts 19. REad it

It says: they got water baptized, then Paul put his hands on them and only AFTER Paul put his hands on them, they received the Spirit and spoke in tongues and prophecied!
That does not happen with everyone, remember, in Gods timeline, every time a new period was started all kinds of things like this happened.
They did nto get saved because paul put his hands on them or they did the righteous work of being baptised. They were saved because they had faith.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,630
113
#5
That does not happen with everyone, remember, in Gods timeline, every time a new period was started all kinds of things like this happened.
They did nto get saved because paul put his hands on them or they did the righteous work of being baptised. They were saved because they had faith.
Perhaps there is a transition period in the book of Acts.

Its all over the place. Cant make no doctrine from the book of Acts.

Acts 2:38 baptism saves.
Acts 3:19 repentance saves
Acts 16:31 believe saves.

Oy vey!

Perhaps things are changing because its so early on in the Church period that it takes a while for things to settle? In Epehsians 1:13 we got it settled? Good explanation?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
Perhaps there is a transition period in the book of Acts.

Its all over the place. Cant make no doctrine from the book of Acts.

Acts 2:38 baptism saves.
Acts 3:19 repentance saves
Acts 16:31 believe saves.

Oy vey!

Perhaps things are changing because its so early on in the Church period that it takes a while for things to settle? In Epehsians 1:13 we got it settled? Good explanation?
I disagree in the acts 2 one. It does not say baptism saved, it says be baptised BECAUSE you recieved remission of sin based on repentance.


As for why it is different then, he had to change jews to get them to follow him, and gentiles to realise who he was, and also to make sure they did not go jewish.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#7
Most likely those in Acts 19:2 had been baptized by John and repented at his preaching - but this was well before the HS was given at Pentecost.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
11,499
7,550
113
#8
I read an interesting take on this verse, as well as the one talking about those in Samaria who believed but hadn't received the Holy Spirit yet.

There were those that heard about Jesus and believed that He is the the Messiah. From other people, or perhaps were present during Jesus' ministry, especially in the Galilean region. Yet they may not have heard that He was crucified, and died to pay for their sin. They may not have known that He was raised to life.

There are TWO elements of the Gospel unto salvation.

The 1st is a confession of who Jesus is and what He has done. That Jesus IS Lord, the Son of God, THE Messiah that takes away sin and only His Sacrificial death can atone for your sin.

The 2nd, is that He was raised to life on the 3rd day.
Confess this with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe this in your heart He was raised to life, and you WILL be saved.

These people may not have even heard the complete Gospel, or been Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,116
394
83
#9
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which one is it?

I personally felt God's presence when He saved me. BUT I got a much stronger presence AFTERWARDS.
I'll speculate these were Jews that had believed & were baptised in the wilderness by Jonn the Baptist. Prior to Jesus baptism & the out pouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. MOO!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,435
2,991
113
#10
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which one is it?

I personally felt God's presence when He saved me. BUT I got a much stronger presence AFTERWARDS.
One reason the book of Acts is not used as a doctrinal book, but more of a history book, a transitional book. God settles the matter for the NT church in the Ephesians passage you quoted.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,156
9,950
113
#11
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
These "certain disciples" has believed the preaching of John the Baptist but for whatever reason had failed to hear about the Holy Ghost (which John had actually spoken about). They had received "the baptism of repentance" which was for Israel, but they had not heard the full Gospel of Christ nor received Christian baptism.

It is only after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ that people receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So that is what happened when Paul encountered them. And in this case he laid hands on them so that they would experience the power of the Holy Ghost through tongues and prophecy. This was a unique situation, not the norm.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#12
lead a horse to water

ever lead a horse?...oh they'll go with you if they want to or they respect you

ever try to lead a horse that had a different opinion?

that's when you learn 'no you did not know all about horses'

biblical metaphor and one flew over

I make a lot of sense if you have been there
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,175
1,334
113
#13
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which one is it?

I personally felt God's presence when He saved me. BUT I got a much stronger presence AFTERWARDS.
Look at the story in Acts 19:1-6 carefully:

Acts 19:1-6 1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the LORD Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul found "disciples" (vs. 1) who "believed" (vs. 2). They were disciples following and believing what they knew to this point - but all that is said in the text is that this was unto "John's baptism". In verse 4 Paul gives them further instruction that they need to believe in Jesus. And upon hearing and understanding this (vs. 5) is where their conversion came. How could they be "born again" without believing in Jesus? When they were converted, they were baptized, and they received the Holy Spirit, and spoke in tongues.

I think (my opinion!) that Acts 19 properly interpreted shows that these disciples were not born again until Paul came and told them about Jesus. So both Ephesians 1:13 and Acts 19 show that the Holy Spirit is given at the new birth.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,062
716
113
#14
The context is they didnt receive it yet in Acts 19. REad it

It says: they got water baptized, then Paul put his hands on them and only AFTER Paul put his hands on them, they received the Spirit and spoke in tongues and prophecied!
This has only to do with the disciples of John. Read the context.😊
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,630
113
#15
lead a horse to water

ever lead a horse?...oh they'll go with you if they want to or they respect you

ever try to lead a horse that had a different opinion?

that's when you learn 'no you did not know all about horses'

biblical metaphor and one flew over

I make a lot of sense if you have been there
You know my name means Horseman and ive been dealing with horses since i was born.

Trust me, I WILL lead the horse to water. Hahahahaha.

There is a way to handle them.

They can sense your state of mind and feeling I believe, and if there is any insecurity or fear, they dont like it.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#16
You know my name means Horseman and ive been dealing with horses since i was born.

Trust me, I WILL lead the horse to water. Hahahahaha.

There is a way to handle them.

They can sense your state of mind and feeling I believe, and if there is any insecurity or fear, they dont like it.

oh you are just KIDDING!

oh I will lead them to water also...long time horse lover here but sold my last one about 2 years ago and really really miss having one

horses can read you like a book :)

did volunteer work at a barn last year and had to stop...but there was a mare there...I still think about her

sigh
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,868
653
113
#17
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We will receive the Spirit when we realize the truth that we have to abstain from sins by the Spirit, and act Christlike, which many do not do that, but make excuses for their sins as if they are incapable of abstaining from sins, and then deny the power thereof allowing the Spirit to lead them, in favor of enjoying fleshy pleasures, and ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth for they interpret scriptures according to the flesh.

These people live in sin and think they are alright with God, and believe they cannot abstain from sins, even though the Bible says they can abstain from sins by the Spirit, but they deny the power thereof, the Spirit leading them.

Anybody that says they cannot abstain from sins, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, will hold unto sins, all the while thinking they are alright with God, but they deny the power thereof.

For we can only be led of the Spirit when we hate sins, and do not want sins, which people that say they cannot abstain from sins want to enjoy sins, hence the excuse they say.

How are you led of the Spirit if you say you cannot abstain from sins, for then you are enjoying sins.

But nobody twisted their arm to sin, and nobody forced them to sin, so they enjoyed the sin, and then want an excuse for the sin, when they could of chose the good.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,090
113
#18
I disagree in the acts 2 one. It does not say baptism saved, it says be baptised BECAUSE you recieved remission of sin based on repentance.


As for why it is different then, he had to change jews to get them to follow him, and gentiles to realise who he was, and also to make sure they did not go jewish.

Yes, some view Acts 2:38 as the national repentance of the Jews.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,661
473
83
#19
Bit of a short study can be found Here on this subject
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
19,101
6,200
113
#20
oh you are just KIDDING!

oh I will lead them to water also...long time horse lover here but sold my last one about 2 years ago and really really miss having one

horses can read you like a book :)

did volunteer work at a barn last year and had to stop...but there was a mare there...I still think about her

sigh
Do all your horses drink when you lead them to water...? Just wondering.