BELIEVE FIRST AND YOU WILL SEE

[garee]

The Bible is continually bringing new truths to me that I'd never heard before. I see today many more promises today than I did even just 5 yrs. ago. The words "new revelations" I take to mean there is nothing outside of God's Word that we are promised. That I agree with.

But our understanding of the Bible grows as we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. As for healing and speaking in tongues., words of knowledge and revelation and the other works of the Holy Spirit that were going on in the early church? I believe they are most certainly for the church today.

Many churches don't believe this that is true., but many do believe. I think it has to do with the individuals who believe or don't believe what the Bible says about these issues. I happen to be a Christian who does believe the gifts in the early church have not ceased. But that was no always the case.

Hi Thanks for the reply. I would agree our hearts should be looking for pearls of God's wisdom to us his bride He must increase we mustdecrease.​

Sorry in advance for the rambling.

I think the division between those who see those things differently is not something we can judge each other with, but more a way of distinguishing what a person or how a person hears God as they try and explain their differences​

There is nothing outside of God's Word that we are promised. No new revelation (prophecy) as law.

In that sense we have his perfect law as it is written. Outside of that law we cannot include theories of experience, we cannot add to His interpretation to us after any manner it would violate the warning not to.​

Today it would seem to be on the up rise. Out of body experience's or near death and God miraculously healed has begun the new age--oldage.​

We have the privilege and should pray for healing just as we pray without ceasing for all things knowing God is not served by human hands, he heals according to His will no sign required just beleive.​

Satan is still bringing lying signs and wonders as he did with the Son of man in Mathew 4.​

Satan brought in the lies into the Son of man fleshly mind. Jesus never moved an inch when shown all the kingdom of the world and the glory of them but after each attempt of the father of lies to move the Son of man, to instant gratification. Jesus would reveal the one manner of faith by which we can hear and believe Him not seen . Therefore we can know him after as it is written again and again three times Christ replied as it is written to help us understand experience is not the validator of the unseen things. God word as it is written alone is. The it in that phrase as it is written represents theunseen faith of God.

It is the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against not the experiences of Peter as that seen in whom the Catholic find their faith on.​

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven​

Mathew 16

Peter flesh is not the key as things seen. Our focus remains on the things not seen, the eternal and not the things seen the temporal . Beware of the promises of the unseen things we experience especially knowing God is no longer brining any new revelations. Who is the man behind the curtain?

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23
​

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[plainguy]

It's funny how we wake up with cancer one day, or have no money to pay the rent and we suddenly start believing in the gifts of the Spirit.

Some things in life bring us to our knees in fervent prayer. God has answered many of mine, often at times when I didn't see a way out. I don't have to believe in apostles and prophets today .. or prophetic messages .. or speaking in a heavenly language .. or many of the things that pentecostal/charismatic folks adhere to doctrinally. I go to God in prayer because I KNOW that He is God. My faith rests in Him thru Jesus Christ. This is what relieves me of my burdens and worries ... and not the measure of my hope that He has departed a "gift of healing" to somebody somewhere. His grace is sufficient for our every need. Have I prayed for healing for myself and/or others ? Of course I have. God knows my heart and clearly, this is my desire for them. Have any ever been miraculously healed ? None that I am aware of. But many were restored to good health thru modern medicine. Is this any less an answer ? And conversely, how many that believe in miraculous gifts today such as the gift of healing refrain from seeking medical help in times of serious illness ? None that I know of in this sense either. So in this regard, who is talking the talk but not walking the walk ? God oftentimes does answer our prayers. And He certainly doesn't require the same miraculous occurrences as transpired during the apostolic era to do so.

 

[joaniemarie]

It's funny how we wake up with cancer one day, or have no money to pay the rent and we suddenly start believing in the gifts of the Spirit.

That's okay. I'm not condemning anybody. God often brings us to utter helplessness and despair to show his miraculous power among us. That seems to be God's modus operandi.......put you between the devil and the deep blue sea, and 'walla', the miracle happens. And he gets all the praise.......and you suddenly want to live for him more.

This is so true Ralph. It takes rubber meeting the road to find out what the promises really are in the Bible. I didn't believe that Jesus would help me with my messes about life., family or divorce or security or money or home or job or any such thing until I lost it all.


It took a supernatural act of God to get my life right. And I've been living in the supernatural ever since. I wish it didn't take our total stupidity to hit us in the face before we look to God for ALL THINGS. And I mean ALL THINGS.


But it does for many of us. When I found out that Jesus saves and accepted Him as Savior in 1982 that is what our family trusted Jesus for... our eternal salvation and we were and are so grateful.


We never considered JESUS would take care of us here on earth TOO. We figured that was OUR JOB. To make the best choices we could and hope they were good enough... To take care of ourselves and our family trying to be as smart as we could be.


We figured as did our church friends and other Christians we knew it's the LEAST we could do after all that Jesus had done for us already by saving our souls. Now it was OUR job to STEP UP AND START DOING.


BUT NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.


We NOW are to live each day here on earth the same exact way we got saved.... by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus. We cannot come to God and ask anything based on our own behavior and faithfulness. We always always go in the goodness and favor of Jesus. When God sees us., He sees our "lamb" Jesus.


He sees the purity of the Lamb. Back in the days of the Hebrews when they sacraficed the spotless white lamb., God saw the lamb... The lamb's purity and goodness was put on the sinner and the sinners sin was put on the lamb. Jesus is not only our Lamb., He is our Great High Priest who is always making intercession for us.


Without HIS intercession., we can have and do nothing. Without HIS life., we would be dead. That is why our life is IN HIM and His life is IN us. Jesus lives His life through us. Gal. 2:20

[SUP]
20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.


That is also why our lives are very exciting and JOYFUL (or should be if it is not). The JOY of the LORD is our strength. But the problem is we have to ALLOW HIM to have access to our lives and many of us don't know this. The Holy Spirit will NOT force us.

 

[Lewiz]

Seeing isn't it at all.

We must HEAR to believe.

Galatians 3:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. [SUP]5 [/SUP] He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Romans 10:14-17 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [SUP]15 [/SUP] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! [SUP]16 [/SUP] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [SUP]17 [/SUP] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Brought forward for clarification.

 

[wolfwint]

I believe that has to do with who is asking. If you are someone who asks and don't believe it's a promise in His Word made from Jesus to you., than no., I don't believe your prayers will be answered for healing because we are called to learn to ask IN faith believing.

I didn't always believe this way. I learned to believe this way. And now I believe He will do what He says He will do and that it is His will to heal. As well as a whole ton of other promises I'm still learning about. Amen Thank You Jesus!

If you don't believe that than I have no beef with you or anyone who doesn't believe this.

Well, would you say that the Faith of the People in the Gospel ore in Acts who got healed is an different Faith then we have today? Faith is Faith. If we say we have to learn to believe, then I would say that we dont believe. Faith, trust, believe in that what Jesus promissed to us through his Word is the Base for our Life.
What I still cant find in his Word is the promisse that he heals every christian from every desease. And what I not understand is that John 20, 30 and 31 is mostly ignored from those who support that healing for every christian from every desease is the will of Jesus.
That Jesus did Miracles and healings has the purpose in John 20, 31.! That People recognize him as the Son of God and are will be saved and get Eternal life!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is so true Ralph. It takes rubber meeting the road to find out what the promises really are in the Bible. I didn't believe that Jesus would help me with my messes about life., family or divorce or security or money or home or job or any such thing until I lost it all.


It took a supernatural act of God to get my life right. And I've been living in the supernatural ever since. I wish it didn't take our total stupidity to hit us in the face before we look to God for ALL THINGS. And I mean ALL THINGS.


But it does for many of us. When I found out that Jesus saves and accepted Him as Savior in 1982 that is what our family trusted Jesus for... our eternal salvation and we were and are so grateful.


We never considered JESUS would take care of us here on earth TOO. We figured that was OUR JOB. To make the best choices we could and hope they were good enough... To take care of ourselves and our family trying to be as smart as we could be.


We figured as did our church friends and other Christians we knew it's the LEAST we could do after all that Jesus had done for us already by saving our souls. Now it was OUR job to STEP UP AND START DOING.


BUT NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.


We NOW are to live each day here on earth the same exact way we got saved.... by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus. We cannot come to God and ask anything based on our own behavior and faithfulness. We always always go in the goodness and favor of Jesus. When God sees us., He sees our "lamb" Jesus.


He sees the purity of the Lamb. Back in the days of the Hebrews when they sacraficed the spotless white lamb., God saw the lamb... The lamb's purity and goodness was put on the sinner and the sinners sin was put on the lamb. Jesus is not only our Lamb., He is our Great High Priest who is always making intercession for us.


Without HIS intercession., we can have and do nothing. Without HIS life., we would be dead. That is why our life is IN HIM and His life is IN us. Jesus lives His life through us. Gal. 2:20

[SUP]
20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.


That is also why our lives are very exciting and JOYFUL (or should be if it is not). The JOY of the LORD is our strength. But the problem is we have to ALLOW HIM to have access to our lives and many of us don't know this. The Holy Spirit will NOT force us.

In your second paragraph, what was the supernatural acct of God it took to get your life right?

 

[joaniemarie]

In your second paragraph, what was the supernatural acct of God it took to get your life right?

The coming to the knowledge of the truth was a process. (still is) But the most supernatural thing that FIRST came to me that I never had before (except for when I first recieved Jesus as Savior) was realizing that the love and grace of God was bought and paid for by Jesus.


I could not earn it as a Christian., or be lovely enough or smart enough for it., or to keep it. His love and grace was and is a gift to FIRST be saved by and THEN to live by.

This goes against all things I was ever taught as a Christian. Once we are saved we were taught it was NOW OUR TURN to show God how dedicated we are.

We took verses like "the rain falls on the just and the unjust" and mixed it up with our relationship with God. Those verses and others like it gave us the idea that we are not different here on earth than the unsaved in that the differences were only seen in the spiritual not in the temporal.


It was years of religious indoctrination that got taken away by the Holy Spirit using the Bible and preaching and teaching to show me Jesus' love and grace. I tried to earn and be worthy of God as a believer., and failure was the outcome in all areas of life and relationships., the foundation of living life here on earth was built on the sand and not the Rock. That kind of mindset doesn't allow Jesus to live His life out in us and through us.

We get saved by Him yes., but we do not allow Him to live out His life in and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit witnessing to our spirit.


Having once begun in the spirit after I was born again., I tried to live out my Christian life and be perfected in the flesh for many years. Gal.3:3 Our whole family did and they still do... as well as our church.

[SUP]
2 [/SUP]Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
[SUP]

3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?
[SUP]

4 [/SUP]Have you suffered so many things and experienced so much all for nothing (to no purpose)—if it really is to no purpose and in vain?
[SUP]

5 [/SUP]Then does He Who supplies you with His marvelous [Holy] Spirit and works powerfully and miraculously among you do so on [the grounds of your doing] what the Law demands, or because of your believing in and adhering to and trusting in and relying on the message that you heard?


When the grace of God that brings salvation comes through Jesus., it will also bring the other things Jesus freely gives and daily brings. We are told to GROW in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ every day now. It has trained us and will continue to train us. Titus 2:11


[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God (His unmerited favor and blessing) has come forward (appeared) for the deliverance from sin and the eternal salvation for all mankind.
[SUP]

12 [/SUP]It has trained us to reject and renounce all ungodliness (irreligion) and worldly (passionate) desires, to live discreet (temperate, self-controlled), upright, devout (spiritually whole) lives in this present world,
[SUP]

13 [/SUP]Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

 

[RickyZ]

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[TD]…as you have believed, so let it be done for you…[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]Matthew 8:13[/TD]
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[TD]- MAY 15 -
BELIEVE FIRST AND YOU WILL SEE[HR][/HR]
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You may have heard some people say, “How can I believe it when I don’t see it? If I can only see it or feel it, I may just believe that something is happening!”


The woman with the issue of blood who came to Jesus could have felt the same way. For 12 long years, she had gone from one doctor to another, trying every conceivable cure they could offer. She not only grew worse, but ended up losing all her money to those doctors and their “cures”.


Then, something happened to her when “she heard about Jesus”. (Mark 5:27) She started believing that He could and would heal her to the extent that she said, “If only I may touch His clothes, I shall be made well.” (Mark 5:28) Acting on her belief, she made her way to Jesus and touched His garment. Immediately, her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was healed of that affliction. Jesus, her true physician, also pronounced her healed.


Beloved, God wants you to know that when you believe Him, you will see your miracle. What you believe Him for, you will receive.When a church member lost her wallet at a swimming pool, she prayed together with her husband, declaring their belief that God would restore the loss. One day later, not at the swimming pool but at her feet in the car, she found her wallet! She simply believed that God would restore her loss and she saw the restoration.


In another case, a lady who had skin cancer wore long sleeves all the time to conceal her condition from others. During one of our church camps, she went forward for prayer, believing God for her healing. After one of our pastors, Pastor Henry, prayed for her, she went back to her room, rolled up her sleeves and saw that all the cancerous scarring on her arms had disappeared! Her doctor later confirmed that she had been cured of skin cancer. She believed God for healing and saw it.


The world says, “Unless I can see it or feel it, I will not believe it.” But God says, “If you will believe it, you will feel it. Indeed, if you will believe it, you will see it!”

Someone here is going to ask for medical records to prove the cancer gone. (Not me.)

 

[Ralph-]

The coming to the knowledge of the truth was a process. (still is) But the most supernatural thing that FIRST came to me that I never had before (except for when I first recieved Jesus as Savior) was realizing that the love and grace of God was bought and paid for by Jesus.


I could not earn it as a Christian., or be lovely enough or smart enough for it., or to keep it. His love and grace was and is a gift to FIRST be saved by and THEN to live by.

This goes against all things I was ever taught as a Christian. Once we are saved we were taught it was NOW OUR TURN to show God how dedicated we are.

We took verses like "the rain falls on the just and the unjust" and mixed it up with our relationship with God. Those verses and others like it gave us the idea that we are not different here on earth than the unsaved in that the differences were only seen in the spiritual not in the temporal.


It was years of religious indoctrination that got taken away by the Holy Spirit using the Bible and preaching and teaching to show me Jesus' love and grace. I tried to earn and be worthy of God as a believer., and failure was the outcome in all areas of life and relationships., the foundation of living life here on earth was built on the sand and not the Rock. That kind of mindset doesn't allow Jesus to live His life out in us and through us.

We get saved by Him yes., but we do not allow Him to live out His life in and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit witnessing to our spirit.


Having once begun in the spirit after I was born again., I tried to live out my Christian life and be perfected in the flesh for many years. Gal.3:3 Our whole family did and they still do... as well as our church.

[SUP]
2 [/SUP]Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
[SUP]

3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?
[SUP]

4 [/SUP]Have you suffered so many things and experienced so much all for nothing (to no purpose)—if it really is to no purpose and in vain?
[SUP]

5 [/SUP]Then does He Who supplies you with His marvelous [Holy] Spirit and works powerfully and miraculously among you do so on [the grounds of your doing] what the Law demands, or because of your believing in and adhering to and trusting in and relying on the message that you heard?


When the grace of God that brings salvation comes through Jesus., it will also bring the other things Jesus freely gives and daily brings. We are told to GROW in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ every day now. It has trained us and will continue to train us. Titus 2:11


[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God (His unmerited favor and blessing) has come forward (appeared) for the deliverance from sin and the eternal salvation for all mankind.
[SUP]

12 [/SUP]It has trained us to reject and renounce all ungodliness (irreligion) and worldly (passionate) desires, to live discreet (temperate, self-controlled), upright, devout (spiritually whole) lives in this present world,
[SUP]

13 [/SUP]Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

When I got saved I realized there is the difference between the church without the Holy Spirit and the church with the Holy Spirit.

The church with the Holy Spirit seemed to be the best kept secret in all of humanity. And yet it was right here among us all the time.

Still, very few find it.

 

[plainguy]

When I got saved I realized there is the difference between the church without the Holy Spirit and the church with the Holy Spirit.

The church with the Holy Spirit seemed to be the best kept secret in all of humanity. And yet it was right here among us all the time.

Still, very few find it.

What specifically is this difference you speak of Ralph ? I'm assuming you're referring to the liveliness of the Pentecostal churches as in comparison to the calmer Orthodox leanings ? I could be assuming incorrectly, hence my question. Incidentally, God's Holy Spirit is present in any church made up of true believers ... which can only lead to the conclusion, if I have assumed correctly is that you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is present in any church that doesn't practice those things that the Pentecostals (or Charismatics) do today. Am I warm ?

 

[joaniemarie]

Someone here is going to ask for medical records to prove the cancer gone. (Not me.)

I'm sure some will. Millions of things have happened., are happening and will happen in this world that no one will ever know about. For me., it comes down to what the Holy Spirit says through the Word of God each day. I do not depend on people believing me or my believing them. It comes down to what the Bible says and how the Holy Spirit leads.

 

[joaniemarie]

When I got saved I realized there is the difference between the church without the Holy Spirit and the church with the Holy Spirit.

The church with the Holy Spirit seemed to be the best kept secret in all of humanity. And yet it was right here among us all the time.

Still, very few find it.

I saw this in my own life too. For years I didn't allow the Holy Spirit to lead or teach or comfort me because I was not taught such things. The church affiliation I was raised in after I got saved after leaving the Catholic church was of the belief that the gifts have ceased. The the promise that was to come that was to be completed was the Bible.

So our family never even knew what we were missing in all such areas of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We lived according to the limitations of our churches doctrines. And so we also personally lived in the limitations of our earthly circumstances for many years. Many of the believers I grew up with are still of that same belief system and do not feel the need to change.