BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 5:16-26
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Hebrews 7:18-22
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness[SUP]19 [/SUP](for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And inasmuch as it was not without an oath [SUP]21 [/SUP](for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,
“The Lord has sworn
And will not change His mind,
‘You are a priest forever’”);

[SUP]22 [/SUP]so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

1 Corinthians 13:4-13
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part; [SUP]10 [/SUP]but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. [SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

2 Peter 1:5-11
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


1 Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

This is my greatest concern - that I do not love with a Godly Love. I (not to boast) know quite a few scriptures, but my love is weak.

this says it all..

the law is powerless..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

????

Exo 23:4 If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.

Deu 22:1 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt in any case bring them again unto thy brother.
Deu 22:2 And if thy brother be not nigh unto thee, or if thou know him not, then thou shalt bring it unto thine own house, and it shall be with thee until thy brother seek after it, and thou shalt restore it to him again.
Deu 22:3 In like manner shalt thou do with his ass; and so shalt thou do with his raiment; and with all lost thing of thy brother's, which he hath lost, and thou hast found, shalt thou do likewise: thou mayest not hide thyself.
Deu 22:4 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift them up again.

lol. You make me laugh.

so explain how a gentile, who never had the law would or could do the same thing?

if you need a law to show you how to love someone by following a script and instructions. ou have much more problems than I or anyone else can help you with.

I would venture to say God can not even help you.

 

[KohenMatt]

Matthew 5:19
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't worry, I've found that freedom and love just as much as you have.

But you didn't answer my question. Do you think there are any practical instructions in the Word to tell you HOW to love?

yeah I did.

but if you need a set of rules and regu;lations and set of instructions to learn how to love, then it is not coming from the heart, it is coming from a legalistic background of following a set of rules. and will be limited to the rules and regulations, and not open as in all things,

Rules can only take you so far. Jesus proved this while he was on the earth;.

I learned to love because God ;oved me first, By giving his life for me.

If that does not teach me how to love (self sacrifice) then no amount of rules or instructions will help me period.

again, as paul said, The gentiles, who did not have the law, knew how to love, If tey, who did not have god could do this, then how can we, who are born again and have Gods spirit in us, not know how to do it, with or without the law?

 

[KohenMatt]

yeah I did.

OK, I must have missed it then. So what practical instructions are there in the Word to tell you HOW to love?

I can only love because God first loved me as well. And if I focused solely on the Law for the Law's sake, I would be in trouble.

Fortunately, God shows me how to love on a daily basis by pointing me back to practical application. He does this by the Holy Spirit's leading.

Almost always through the Law.

but if you need a set of rules and regu;lations and set of instructions to learn how to love, then it is not coming from the heart, it is coming from a legalistic background of following a set of rules. and will be limited to the rules and regulations, and not open as in all things,

Rules can only take you so far. Jesus proved this while he was on the earth;.

I learned to love because God ;oved me first, By giving his life for me.

If that does not teach me how to love (self sacrifice) then no amount of rules or instructions will help me period.

again, as paul said, The gentiles, who did not have the law, knew how to love, If tey, who did not have god could do this, then how can we, who are born again and have Gods spirit in us, not know how to do it, with or without the law?

I can only love because God first loved me as well. And if I focused solely on the Law for the Law's sake, I would be in trouble.

Fortunately, God shows me how to love on a daily basis by pointing me back to practical application. He does this by the Holy Spirit's leading.

Almost always through the Law.

 

[chubbena]

umm, guess you got me there! How about "NOT liking God's rules" then? You say Our fleshly struggles and striving to keep God’s holy law can only end in failure. That's not what Jesus said..:
Matthew 11:30

[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Have you ever wondered what He meant by that? I have. It's so cool! (just like everything else in the Word) Jesus was a Rabbi, right? He taught with authority, did He not? The yoke is simply what the Rabbi taught, and Jesus taught the spirit and truth of Torah without all the burdensome added rabbinic laws! His yoke was easier to obey than the others, that's one of the reasons He attracted such huge crowds, they didn't know He was the Son of God, they just wanted life to
be easier! and it is easier, with Messiah inside you, it is possible.

The Messiah was not only a Babbi, He's the Word of God so when the Messiah said "come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest" He was saying "come to the Word of God all you who are weary and burdened and the Word of God will give you rest."
Indeed the Pharisees and scribes taught wrongly about the law. What was not difficult (cf Deuteronomy 30:11) had become difficult (cf Matthew 23:4) in their hands.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, I must have missed it then. So what practical instructions are there in the Word to tell you HOW to love?

ever read the gospels and the life of Christ, Ever read the acts and the sacrifices the apostles made? Every read the letters of paul and seen how he ave himself for all people?

no better examples that I can think of. Go to the ones who did it best.

I can only love because God first loved me as well. And if I focused solely on the Law for the Law's sake, I would be in trouble.

focusing on it at all from what I have experienced and witnessed will get you into trouble, Again, read the NT and how it got the jews in trouble.

Fortunately, God shows me how to love on a daily basis by pointing me back to practical application. He does this by the Holy Spirit's leading.

Almost always through the Law.

Your missing out on so much if you believe this, you have not even begun to see what it is to love,

 

[chubbena]

yeah I did.

but if you need a set of rules and regu;lations and set of instructions to learn how to love, then it is not coming from the heart, it is coming from a legalistic background of following a set of rules. and will be limited to the rules and regulations, and not open as in all things,

Rules can only take you so far. Jesus proved this while he was on the earth;.

I learned to love because God ;oved me first, By giving his life for me.

If that does not teach me how to love (self sacrifice) then no amount of rules or instructions will help me period.

again, as paul said, The gentiles, who did not have the law, knew how to love, If tey, who did not have god could do this, then how can we, who are born again and have Gods spirit in us, not know how to do it, with or without the law?

Again Paul said to Timothy "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

And again John said "this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome."

 

[chubbena]

The Messiah was not only a Babbi, He's the Word of God so when the Messiah said "come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest" He was saying "come to the Word of God all you who are weary and burdened and the Word of God will give you rest."
Indeed the Pharisees and scribes taught wrongly about the law. What was not difficult (cf Deuteronomy 30:11) had become difficult (cf Matthew 23:4) in their hands.

Of course the Messiah was not a Babbi

 

[Linda70]

Matthew 5:19
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

You forgot to quote verse 20, which is in the context of Jesus' expounding on the demands of the law, which is perfection. Actually, you should have begun at verse 17 and quoted right through verse 20. Pulling verse 19 out of context as a "proof text" is common among the "modern day lawkeeping Judaizers".

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Christ did indeed come not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, which He did. Jesus was under the law that believers might not be.

God requires perfect obedience to His law, and no man can attain to that. Thus salvation must be a gift of God's righteousness provided through Jesus Christ.

Christ came to redeem those who were under the "curse" and "bondage" of the law.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again Paul said to Timothy "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

And again John said "this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome."

1. I agree, all scripture is given.

The law did its job, it led me to Christ.

2. I agree, those who love God keep his commands. They do it by fulfilling the law of love in themelves.

the law of moses can not help you do number 2. All if cna possibly do is give a starting point, but even then, there is so much more better examples. of how to love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You forgot to quote verse 20, which is in the context of Jesus' expounding on the demands of the law, which is perfection. Actually, you should have begun at verse 17 and quoted right through verse 20. Pulling verse 19 out of context as a "proof text" is common among the "modern day lawkeeping Judaizers".

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Christ did indeed come not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, which He did. Jesus was under the law that believers might not be.

God requires perfect obedience to His law, and no man can attain to that. Thus salvation must be a gift of God's righteousness provided through Jesus Christ.

Christ came to redeem those who were under the "curse" and "bondage" of the law.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

yep the law sure did help those legalistic jews out didn't it? And we can not even obey the law to their level. and the law is going to help us??

 

[2Thewaters]

The Messiah was not only a Babbi, He's the Word of God so when the Messiah said "come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest" He was saying "come to the Word of God all you who are weary and burdened and the Word of God will give you rest."
Indeed the Pharisees and scribes taught wrongly about the law. What was not difficult (cf Deuteronomy 30:11) had become difficult (cf Matthew 23:4) in their hands.

come to me and recieve power to overcome sin

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel,




Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe,
according to the working of his mighty power,Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, ...


Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, (FILLED WITH THIS POWER) who were dead in trespasses and sins:
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened (GIVENUS POWER TO OVERCOME SINS) us together with Christ, (by grace (POWER TO STOP SINNING) ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


he gives us the power to stop sinning

you never noticed that beore because you have been taught we dont need to overcome sin which is wrong

we do
and he does give us the power to do it

Let this mind be in you that was in christ Jesus

Jesus kept all the commandments perfectly

when that mind is in us we will too.

just get born again
follow the still small voice
that starts talking to you
a conscience empowered by the word o God and
and stop sinning now. right now
its about time.

that is Gods will or us
even our sanctiication commandment keeping)

 

[KohenMatt]

ever read the gospels and the life of Christ, Ever read the acts and the sacrifices the apostles made? Every read the letters of paul and seen how he ave himself for all people?

no better examples that I can think of. Go to the ones who did it best.

Do you think Jesus, the apostles and Paul did different things than what is found in the Law? Or did they come up with their own ways to love that are separate from what is the Law?

focusing on it at all from what I have experienced and witnessed will get you into trouble, Again, read the NT and how it got the jews in trouble.

Your missing out on so much if you believe this, you have not even begun to see what it is to love,

Fortunately, I don't "focus" on it above all else. I "focus" on my Savior.

He tells me to follow the Law.

 

[john832]

This entire thread comes down to this...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

lol. You make me laugh.

so explain how a gentile, who never had the law would or could do the same thing?

if you need a law to show you how to love someone by following a script and instructions. ou have much more problems than I or anyone else can help you with.

I would venture to say God can not even help you.

You say the Gentiles never had the Law?

Abimelech knew the Law concerning adultery...

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
Gen 20:10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
Gen 20:11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

And in this case, just like you, Abraham thought wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you think Jesus, the apostles and Paul did different things than what is found in the Law? Or did they come up with their own ways to love that are separate from what is the Law?

I think they were so focused on others, and so focused on what they needed to do at any given moment, they did not think of self, and in doing so., by focusing on the spirit, they were to busy, and not even tempted to break the law.

Now if you asking if I thought the went around with the law running around their brain showing them what to do. well then no.l they did not have time to focus on this, they had to much stuff to do.

Fortunately, I don't "focus" on it above all else. I "focus" on my Savior.

He tells me to follow the Law.

He shows me how to work in love, and serving others in whatever I do. Then I do not have to worry about breaking the law. I would not even be tempted by it.

the only time I am tempted is when I take my eyes of others and put it in self. In this case, the law can't help me. all it can do is as paul says, is keep my mind on the sin I am thinking of. And cause sin to increase. I need to focus on others, l not the law. the law can not help me, as has been proven since the law was first given

 

[2Thewaters]

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

abraham was right.

I every time you speak an error

and i post a bible verse showing you that
why
eventually you will have read the whole Bible!

so this is good

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You say the Gentiles never had the Law?

Abimelech knew the Law concerning adultery...

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
Gen 20:10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
Gen 20:11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

And in this case, just like you, Abraham thought wrong.

thats funny. The law was not even given yet.

Keep it up. I need a good laugh, been a rough few days.

as for abraham,

He was afraid of getting hurt or killed., He was not focused on the spirit, the plan of God or his wife. If he was, he never would have been tempted to sin..

No law could tell you that now could it?

 

[2Thewaters]

ill just add more verses so you can read it faster

covenant is the ten commandments so I will add that where they go

Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant (ten commandments) between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, (ten commandments) to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant (ten commandments) therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, (ten commandments) which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant (ten commandments) betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant (ten commandments) shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. (ten commandments)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

abraham was right.

I every time you speak an error

and i post a bible verse showing you that
why
eventually you will have read the whole Bible!

so this is good

Gen 15: [SUP]6 [/SUP]And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Abraham had faith in God. thats why he did all he could to obey him, But he certainly was not perfect. In fact many legalists if they really looked at it, would say abraham was not saved because of all his sin.