Bible "versions"?

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Aug 8, 2021
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Old argument and easily refuted. The Apocrypha was never part of the KJV text. It was an insert at first, but removed shortly thereafter. Nice try, come again.
I was asking your opinion. I've come across others who believe the 1611 with the apocrypha is only bible version that's credible. So I guess your "perfect" and "without error" bible version would be the 1769 KJV....

Regardless, I left a list of errors found in the KJV in post #325 that would include all KJV versions. Can you just address this one:

In Acts 7:14 you will see Josephs family being 75 people. This is referring to Gen 46:27 and Exo 1:5... Why does the KJV that you claim to be perfect and without error have both of these verses saying 70 people and contradicting the verse in Acts?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I was asking your opinion. I've come across others who believe the 1611 with the apocrypha is only bible version that's credible. So I guess your "perfect" and "without error" bible version would be the 1769 KJV....

Regardless, I left a list of errors found in the KJV in post #325 that would include all KJV versions. Can you just address this one:

In Acts 7:14 you will see Josephs family being 75 people. This is referring to Gen 46:27 and Exo 1:5... Why does the KJV that you claim to be perfect and without error have both of these verses saying 70 people and contradicting the verse in Acts?
The 1769 edition is the same as the 1611 but with updated spellings.

I've seen all of your so called errors and have debunked most of them on other threads.
 
Aug 8, 2021
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The 1769 edition is the same as the 1611 but with updated spellings.

I've seen all of your so called errors and have debunked most of them on other threads.
Updated spellings and without the apocrypha, fine.

So address the one I just mentioned... Dead sea scrolls and Septuagint say 75 years in all places. Why does the KJV contradict itself and say 75 yrs in acts and 70 years in Genesis and Exodus?
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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Old argument and easily refuted. The Apocrypha was never part of the KJV text. It was an insert at first, but removed shortly thereafter. Nice try, come again.
Great fail. Stop while you're behind.

The Apocrypha were part of the KJV Bible.
Stating it was never part of the KJV text is improper English.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
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ogom.co
Great fail. Stop while you're behind.

The Apocrypha were part of the KJV Bible.
Stating it was never part of the KJV text is improper English.

and the emperors (and powers that were) were in charge and changed things as they decided -- every change that they changed -- as they decided -- down through the years.

knowledge is power though -- it can be gained back.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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We are not speaking about "something". We are speaking about an English Bible translation that has been under attack from the very beginning and has still maintained itself as THE LEADING English translation. If you cannot see God's hand is that, you are wilfully blind.

You're not doing it any favours.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Great fail. Stop while you're behind.

The Apocrypha were part of the KJV Bible.
Stating it was never part of the KJV text is improper English.
It was never part of the written text, only an insert. Do you not understand the difference?
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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and the emperors (and powers that were) were in charge and changed things as they decided -- every change that they changed -- as they decided -- down through the years.

knowledge is power though -- it can be gained back.
Can it? Where are the autographs?

So many versions now. So many changes and omissions across the centuries.
Books deemed "non-Canonical", due to what is essentially politics.
And again, no Autographs. Can't begin to imagine what those contained. Lost for all time. They must be somewhere but where. Shall we ever know? Likely not.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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Christians Are Called To Be Fruit Inspectors...Hence,

14 Remind the people of these facts, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good, and [upsets and undermines and] ruins [the faith of] those who listen.
15 Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth.

God Bless!
Precious friend, appreciate your input - (1) From The Preserved Word Of God:

"Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before The LORD
that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the
hearers. Study to shew thyself Approved unto God, a workman that needeth
not to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth." (2 Timothy 2:14-15)

(2) fruit inspectors? of others? Again, From The Preserved Word Of God:

2Co 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye
not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
+
1Co 11:28 "But let a man examine himself, and so
let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup."
+
1Co 11:31 "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."
+
"For if a man think himself to be something {fruit inspector?}, when he
is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work,
and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another."
(Galatians 6:3-4)

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy
brother? for we shall all stand before the JUDGMENT Seat of Christ. For It Is
Written, As I Live, Saith The LORD
, every knee shall bow To ME, and every
tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not
therefore judge one another Any More
: but judge this rather, that no
man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way."
(
Romans 14:10-13)

Conclusion:
NO, I have NOT been called to be a "fruit inspector {judge} of others"...

However, instead of "striving/subverting hearers," have I not
Been Called "to make ALL [men] see..."?:
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
"...What Is The Grace/Mystery fellowship," today?)


Precious friend, Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
 
Nov 17, 2017
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HI!
Precious friend, appreciate your input - (1) From The Preserved Word Of God:

Conclusion:
NO, I have NOT been called to be a "fruit inspector {judge} of others"...
Those who are His make judgement calls all the time..called to inspect the
fruit of others....

Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

How do you know if fruit is good or bad if you dont inspect the fruits?
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Hi again! Since we are talking judging/judgment
1Co 11:31 "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."
Lets look at this judge
G1252 διακρίνω diakrino (d̮iy-a-kriy'-nō) v.
1. to separate thoroughly.
2. (literally and reflexively) to withdraw from.
3. (by implication) to oppose.
4. (figuratively) to discriminate.
5. (by implication) to decide.
6. (reflexively) to hesitate.
[from G1223 and G2919]
KJV: contend, make (to) differ(-ence), discern, doubt, judge, be partial, stagger, waver
Judging in/by Holy Spirit, not to condemnation, discernment.

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
G2919 κρίνω krino (kriy'-nō) v.
1. (properly) to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially).
2. (by implication) to try, condemn, punish.
[perhaps a primary word]
KJV: avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think
Judgment to condemnation, no man has the power to do.

So, one must judge to know wolves in sheep clothing, etc

Matt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
How would one know dogs and swine, judging.

Here is more Scripture:
1Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

God Bless
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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4QSama in the Dead Sea Scrolls have goliath's height at 4 cubits like the Septuagint... not 6 like the KJV and Masoretic text. Are you going to address the other examples I gave, or just that one?
Your source 4Q Sama actually does not have the f/our cubits. Yes, the spurious Septuagint is not that older as it claimed to be. The so-called witness to the LXX, Letter of Aresteas is written only of 2nd Ce BC and not the 150BC or more. So this lacks integrity.

https://archive.org/details/B-001-001-932/page/n23/mode/2up rules in the translation.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible : Martin Abegg, Jr., Peter Flint, Eugene Ulrich : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Umm for the rest, I should be the one asking you why KJV is in error and not the Septuagint?

glad to hear from you.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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BTW Malikb, if you look at the link I gave in its footnote: some LXX does have it 5 and another LXX is 6. Which LXX is correct? Thanks
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,705
2,563
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Your source 4Q Sama actually does not have the f/our cubits. Yes, the spurious Septuagint is not that older as it claimed to be. The so-called witness to the LXX, Letter of Aresteas is written only of 2nd Ce BC and not the 150BC or more. So this lacks integrity.

https://archive.org/details/B-001-001-932/page/n23/mode/2up rules in the translation.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible : Martin Abegg, Jr., Peter Flint, Eugene Ulrich : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Umm for the rest, I should be the one asking you why KJV is in error and not the Septuagint?

glad to hear from you.
I have a friend of a friend, Will Kinney, who has spent a lot of time and energy defending the KJV and debunking accusations with truth. Here’s his website.

https://brandplucked.webs.com/kjbarticles.htm
 
Aug 8, 2021
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Your source 4Q Sama actually does not have the f/our cubits. Yes, the spurious Septuagint is not that older as it claimed to be. The so-called witness to the LXX, Letter of Aresteas is written only of 2nd Ce BC and not the 150BC or more. So this lacks integrity.

https://archive.org/details/B-001-001-932/page/n23/mode/2up rules in the translation.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible : Martin Abegg, Jr., Peter Flint, Eugene Ulrich : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Umm for the rest, I should be the one asking you why KJV is in error and not the Septuagint?

glad to hear from you.

Notice that in the DDS book that you posted the only letter in brackets is "F" and the letters "o/u/r" are outside of the brackets. Why? Because there was enough of the word visible to determine that the Hebrew indicated four cubits (not 6). There were some later Septuagint translations that may have said something other than 4 cubits, but they were never excepted as legit.... Hence why in every English translation I've seen (Brenton, ABP, LSV, LEB, etc) reads 4 cubits. Josephus is in agreement on this as well.



David and Goliath: The Height of Goliath

One major variant within the Samuel text is in 1 Samuel 17:4. While both the original Septuagint and Josephus’ writings attributed only four cubits and a span (about 6’9’’) to Goliath’s height, the Masoretic Text recorded Goliath’s height as six cubits (9’). The Septuagint writes, "καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἀνὴρ δυνατὸς ἐκ τῆς παρατάξεως τῶν ἀλλοφύλων Γολιὰθ ὄνομα αὐτῶν ἐκ Γέθ, ὕψος αὐτοῦ τεσσάρων πήχεων καὶ σπιθαμῆς·" The translation of this verse reads, "And there went forth a mighty man out of the army of the Philistines, Goliath, by name, out of Geth, his height [was] four cubits and a span.".[7] Furthermore, In Josephus’ account of this story, he writes, "Now there came down a man out of the camp of the Philistines, whose name was Goliath, of the city of Gath, a man of vast bulk, for he was of four cubits and a span in tallness…."[8] However, because the Masoretic Text was written in the original Hebrew language and was considered to be an older copy of the text, scholars used its translation for years, attributing to Goliath a height that surpassed even that of the tallest man ever recorded in medical history.[9]

With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in which the manuscript containing 1 Samuel 17:4 is found in original Hebrew and can be dated to over 1000 years before the Masoretic Text, the height of Goliath as four cubits and one span is not only a confirmation of the readings in the original Septuagint and in Josephus, but is also a far more reasonable height for a man and not a medical impossibility. As time went on, the ancient narratives became more exaggerated as the passage was copied and recopied many times. Even in later Septuagint manuscripts, Goliath's height is recorded as "five cubits" and in an even later manuscript as "six cubits", exemplifying how ancient narratives were sometimes exaggerated as they were retold and rewritten by narrators or scribes.[10] Perhaps the story of a young and unarmored David defeating a mighty Philistine warrior would have seemed all the more miraculous the taller Goliath was, contributing to an even more heroic image of David as a leader later on in life as he put his faith in God and defeated countless adversaries. With David being a key character in the narrative of Scripture, such exaggeration in the telling of this story is understandable


Umm for the rest, I should be the one asking you why KJV is in error and not the Septuagint?

For the other errors I pointed out, it wasn't just The Septuagint vs KJV (Masoretic Text). Like I mentioned in that post, in multiple situations it is the Masoretic text standing on its own against a combination of the Septuagint, Samaritan Pentateuch, DSS and/or Josephus writings.... and after all:


Deuteronomy 19:15

15 `One witness doth not rise against a man for any iniquity, and for any sin, in any sin which he sinneth; by the mouth of two witnesses, or by the mouth of three witnesses, is a thing established.


and


Matthew 18:16

16 and if he may not hear, take with thee yet one or two, that by the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may stand.


.... So I choose to believe the testimonies that are older and have more witnesses.



For some of the other errors I pointed out, you don't need to compare the KJV to anything. It contradicts itself:


Like I mentioned in that post... in Acts 7:14 you will see Josephs family being 75 people, which is referring to Gen 46:27 and Exo 1:5... The KJV has both of these verses as "70 people". You don't need The Septuagint to see that contradiction.

The KJV says in Exo 12:40 that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years. When you add up the ages of Moses' grandfather (who went with Jacob into Egypt), His Father, and the 80 years Moses spent in Egypt.... You don't even get 400 years. The Math doesn't work. This is a KJV error... no Septuagint needed to determine this.


Again, I don't claim that The Septuagint is a perfect translation either... I'm just saying that its illogical to say that the KJV is perfect / without error.