Book of Enoch

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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#1
Feel free to discuss it in an objective and scholarly manner.

I won't be offended if you say you love it or if you say it is a total fraud.

Personally I'm taking an astronomy class and will examine the chapters relating to that subject from a scientific standpoint.

Anyone want to pipe in with the historical context and how the Dead sea scrolls were found and whether we should study it as God inspired?
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
Feel free to discuss it in an objective and scholarly manner.
That sounds absolutely fascinating. I am waiting with anticipation.



I won't be offended if you say you love it or if you say it is a total fraud.
It's a fraud.

Personally I'm taking an astronomy class and will examine the chapters relating to that subject from a scientific standpoint.
It won't stand a chance, nor would the bible.


Anyone want to pipe in with the historical context and how the Dead sea scrolls were found and whether we should study it as God inspired?
I think articles three through six of the Belgic Confession of Faith handle the matter well, concerning wither they are inspired or not.

Belgic Confession of Faith said:
Article 3: The Written Word of God

We confess that this Word of God was not sent nor delivered by the will of men, but that holy men of God spoke, being moved by the Holy Spirit, as Peter says.^1
Afterwards our God-- because of the special care he has for us and our salvation-- commanded his servants, the prophets and apostles, to commit this revealed Word to writing. He himself wrote with his own finger the two tables of the law.

Therefore we call such writings holy and divine Scriptures. ^1 2 Pet. 1:21

Article 4: The Canonical Books

We include in the Holy Scripture the two volumes of the Old and New Testaments. They are canonical books with which there can be no quarrel at all.
In the church of God the list is as follows: In the Old Testament, the five books of Moses-- Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; the books of Joshua, Judges, and Ruth; the two books of Samuel, and two of Kings; the two books of Chronicles, called Paralipomenon; the first book of Ezra; Nehemiah, Esther, Job; the Psalms of David; the three books of Solomon-- Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song; the four major prophets-- Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel; and then the other twelve minor prophets-- Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi.

In the New Testament, the four gospels-- Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles; the fourteen letters of Paul-- to the Romans; the two letters to the Corinthians; to the Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians; the two letters to the Thessalonians; the two letters to Timothy; to Titus, Philemon, and to the Hebrews; the seven letters of the other apostles-- one of James; two of Peter; three of John; one of Jude; and the Revelation of the apostle John.

Article 5: The Authority of Scripture

We receive all these books and these only as holy and canonical, for the regulating, founding, and establishing of our faith.
And we believe without a doubt all things contained in them-- not so much because the church receives and approves them as such but above all because the Holy Spirit testifies in our hearts that they are from God, and also because they prove themselves to be from God.

For even the blind themselves are able to see that the things predicted in them do happen.

Article 6: The Difference Between Canonical and Apocryphal Books

We distinguish between these holy books and the apocryphal ones, which are the third and fourth books of Esdras; the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Jesus Sirach, Baruch; what was added to the Story of Esther; the Song of the Three Children in the Furnace; the Story of Susannah; the Story of Bell and the Dragon; the Prayer of Manasseh; and the two books of Maccabees.
The church may certainly read these books and learn from them as far as they agree with the canonical books. But they do not have such power and virtue that one could confirm from their testimony any point of faith or of the Christian religion. Much less can they detract from the authority of the other holy books.

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#3
anyway here are some websites that might be useful if you are interested in researching the book:

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/enoch.pdf

Book of Enoch

The Book of Enoch and The Secrets of Enoch

some discernment is warranted, here are some websites to that end:

The Book of Enoch EXPOSED!

The Book of Enoch Teaches Heresy!

To the Biblically ignorant reader, the Book of Enoch might have an appeal; but to a believer grounded in the Scriptures, the Book of Enoch is packed full of heresy. For example:

We read in chapter 40 of the Book of Enoch...

1 And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude
2 beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3 And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4 The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5 And the second voice I heard blessing
6 the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord
8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: ‘Who are these four presences which I have
9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.

The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. What blasphemy! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches. We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against LIARS and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise. 1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God.
Stay Away from the Book Of Enoch DiscernIt

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHbIG9g1uLs[/video]

anyway I don't really have time right now to go into depth but just created this thread out of "politeness since I'm tired of being called a troll and attention seeking person.

if you want to discuss the book of Enoch then feel free

but if not. that is fine too.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
113
#4
anyway here are some websites that might be useful if you are interested in researching the book:

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/enoch.pdf

Book of Enoch

The Book of Enoch and The Secrets of Enoch

some discernment is warranted, here are some websites to that end:

The Book of Enoch EXPOSED!



Stay Away from the Book Of Enoch DiscernIt

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHbIG9g1uLs[/video]

anyway I don't really have time right now to go into depth but just created this thread out of "politeness since I'm tired of being called a troll and attention seeking person.

if you want to discuss the book of Enoch then feel free

but if not. that is fine too.
I watched the link, read it, and listened to the voiceover. I have read Enoch, and although there are parts that I am not enlightened on, what I do read and understand is totally in line with the Bible of today. Of course the references to Jesus are with a title, because His actual name had not yet been revealed. As for a production by something called Vudumojo, I am afraid that would be more likely the target to avoid. Thank you for your input. It is different.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#5
I watched the link, read it, and listened to the voiceover. I have read Enoch, and although there are parts that I am not enlightened on, what I do read and understand is totally in line with the Bible of today. Of course the references to Jesus are with a title, because His actual name had not yet been revealed. As for a production by something called Vudumojo, I am afraid that would be more likely the target to avoid. Thank you for your input. It is different.
would you like to elaborate and explain how the book of Enoch is actually in lined with the Bible?

perhaps actually discuss passages from both?

what have you read that you think is in line and what do you mean by "there are parts that I am not enlightened on" ?

If you could address the points brought up to show how the book of Enoch is NOT in lined with the Bible that would be helpful as well.

The main one is the passage that shows that the Book of Enoch names an ANGEL as mediator between men and God in place of Jesus which goes against the Bible and the Gospel message.

what voice over? in the video the only sound was when the person read the scripture verses.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#6
so anyway here are some youtube videos about the subject. I'm not endorsing any of them but post them as a basis for discussion and for those who are curious about the conversation on the book of Enoch.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKnTAbmHSrw&feature=related[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJQMz-fZzC0&feature=related[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQhhOjw0z8g&feature=related[/video]

anyway I've gotta go and play with the kids. haven't watched this videos but they looked interesting.

use your discernment and tell me what you think?
 

Laodicea

Senior Member
May 30, 2011
5,874
50
0
#7
The other thread only wanted to hear good things, they did not want open discussion. Good to see another thread for open discussion.

So what language was the original book of Enoch written in? The alphabet was not invented till around 1400 BC. The books of Moses the Bible were probably the first books ever written using the alphabet before that they used picture writing like the Egyptians did.

The book of Enoch continually refers to God as 'Lord of the spirits' the Bible never refers to God in that way.

If Enoch wrote this then it would have been written before the flood, here are some things which don't agree with the Bible
1. Observe ye everything that takes place in the heaven, how they do not change their orbits, ⌈and⌉ the luminaries which are in the heaven, how they all rise and set in order each in its season, and transgress not against their appointed order. 2. Behold ye the earth, and give heed to the things which take place upon it from first to last, ⌈how steadfast they are⌉, how ⌈none of the things upon earth⌉ change, ⌈but⌉ all the works of God appear ⌈to you⌉. 3. Behold the summer and the winter, ⌈⌈how the whole earth is filled with water, and clouds and dew and rain lie upon it⌉⌉.
Genesis 8:22
(22) While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.


The first mention of summer and winter in the Bible is after the flood. When God created the earth it had a water canopy around it so the environment would have been alot different before the flood.
Genesis 1:6-7
(6) And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(7) And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Here is another
1. Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 2. '〈Go to Noah〉 and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. 3. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.'
Genesis 6:13
(13) And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

The book of Enoch has Uriel speaking to Noah the Bible has God speaking to Noah. There is no mention of a Uriel in the Bible till long after the flood.

Also another point is that Genesis 6 would have happened after Enoch was taken to heaven so how did he write about it.

__________________
 
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Laodicea

Senior Member
May 30, 2011
5,874
50
0
#8
People 450-Feet Tall?
7:12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
7:13 When they turned themselves
against men, in order to devour them;
7:14 And began to
injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.
7:15 Then the
earth reproved the unrighteous.

Taken from the book of Enoch
 

krisbrian

Senior Member
Feb 29, 2012
290
3
0
#9
The book is fascinating, no doubt about it....but it sounds like a little truth mixed with a lot of imagination to me.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
113
#10
would you like to elaborate and explain how the book of Enoch is actually in lined with the Bible?

perhaps actually discuss passages from both?

what have you read that you think is in line and what do you mean by "there are parts that I am not enlightened on" ?

If you could address the points brought up to show how the book of Enoch is NOT in lined with the Bible that would be helpful as well.

The main one is the passage that shows that the Book of Enoch names an ANGEL as mediator between men and God in place of Jesus which goes against the Bible and the Gospel message.

what voice over? in the video the only sound was when the person read the scripture verses.
Perhaps some who read the Book of Enoch do understand it, while others do not. I read the Book of Revelation and understand what is given me to understand, as do all believers. No believer understands all of that Book either. If it is given to me and countless others to understand enough of Enoch to make them stand up and take notice, what is that to those who do not?
At this point, you know what I believe, anything further would be simply contention, and you know we are not to come together simply to argue. God bless all in Jesus Christ, and all who will come to Him, amen.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,007
135
63
#11
Never read, and never will................

Watched the video link, and it seems that it contradicts the Bible.

Only those of you who have read both will know this.

I understand how easy it is for people to create spin offs of the Bible.... depends where your heart and soul is.


My Almighty Yahweh God sent Yeshua his son ,my saviour to be the sacrifice that will enable me to go home.

What other people want to make of life is them exercising free will, there is a consequence, but not all fear Almighty Yahweh God.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#12
Perhaps some who read the Book of Enoch do understand it, while others do not. I read the Book of Revelation and understand what is given me to understand, as do all believers. No believer understands all of that Book either. If it is given to me and countless others to understand enough of Enoch to make them stand up and take notice, what is that to those who do not?
At this point, you know what I believe, anything further would be simply contention, and you know we are not to come together simply to argue. God bless all in Jesus Christ, and all who will come to Him, amen.
actually it would be called discussion, but I understand why you would not wish to engage in it.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
113
#13
Perhaps some who read the Book of Enoch do understand it, while others do not. I read the Book of Revelation and understand what is given me to understand, as do all believers. No believer understands all of that Book either. If it is given to me and countless others to understand enough of Enoch to make them stand up and take notice, what is that to those who do not?
At this point, you know what I believe, anything further would be simply contention, and you know we are not to come together simply to argue. God bless all in Jesus Christ, and all who will come to Him, amen.
You know where I stand; it is no secret. What you call further discussion is moot, and to press for mere exhange is contentious. Again, you know what I believe. To discuss, as you call it, at this point is no more or less than listening to the rain.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#14
You know where I stand; it is no secret. What you call further discussion is moot, and to press for mere exhange is contentious. Again, you know what I believe. To discuss, as you call it, at this point is no more or less than listening to the rain.
then why do you continue to post? If that is truly your belief then your continued dialogue somewhat belies your conviction. perhaps you like listening to the rain?

it was much easier for you to think that those who disagree have never read the book or are all unenlightened then to discuss the "enlightening" passages in the book.

if it is truly inspired by God then it should be proclaimed, if it is not it should be denounced or treated as a historical document much like the Bhavagad Gita or the Mayan Popol Vuh.
 
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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#15
in that I mean regaled to the realm of mythology and legends and not God's Truth. A document that reveals the beliefs of the people who wrote it and believe in it and not the divine purpose and heart of God.

2 Peter 1:16
For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

.Titus 1:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

2 Timothy 4:3-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

1 Timothy 4:7
But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.
 
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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#16
Found this website on the topic... here is a quote from the site...

Does it match the Bible?

1. Deuteronomy 13:1-3 - God’s messages are always consistent.

2. Time line wrong

a. Using Genesis 5, we know that Enoch was born about 622 years after the creation. He lived 365 years before God took him - Genesis 5:23-24

b. Enoch 107:2-3 (Enoch speaking to Methuselah): “'And now, my son, go and announce to thy son Lamech, that this son who is born is really his, and that this is not a falsehood.' And when Methuselah had heard the words of his father Enoch -- for he had shown him everything that was secret -- he returned, after his having seen him, and called the name of that son Noah, for he will make glad the earth for all destruction.”

c. Noah was born about 1056 years after the creation, 69 years after Enoch left the earth!

d. According to the Bible, this event could not have happened!
The Book of Enoch
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#17
You know where I stand; it is no secret. What you call further discussion is moot, and to press for mere exhange is contentious. Again, you know what I believe. To discuss, as you call it, at this point is no more or less than listening to the rain.
Don't you think that this so called book of Enoch went through the same scrutiny as the other canonized books and manuscripts to determine whether they were inspired with consistency in terms of revelation and sound doctrine? To even let this passage in (Jude) be submitted as inspired must have taken lots of consideration and additional support from the other canon of scriptures. If this book is inspired by the Holy Spirit, don't think for a minute that God was not able to give His stamp of approval as with the others. There are certain things about this writing that did not meet the criteria and pass the test of inspiration and the council, no matter how much others have accused of being bias and influenced, did the work and approved all books and writings that were deemed inspired and authorized by the Holy Spirit.
 

Laodicea

Senior Member
May 30, 2011
5,874
50
0
#18
9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.


The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. What blasphemy! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches. We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against LIARS and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise. 1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God.


Comes from this site
The Book of Enoch EXPOSED!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
113
#19
Perhaps some who read the Book of Enoch do understand it, while others do not. I read the Book of Revelation and understand what is given me to understand, as do all believers. No believer understands all of that Book either. If it is given to me and countless others to understand enough of Enoch to make them stand up and take notice, what is that to those who do not?
At this point, you know what I believe, anything further would be simply contention, and you know we are not to come together simply to argue. God bless all in Jesus Christ, and all who will come to Him, amen.
Red, I have commented on this previously, thanks. God bless and keep you, in Jesus Christ, amen.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#20
Red, I have commented on this previously, thanks. God bless and keep you, in Jesus Christ, amen.
Part of trusting God is trusting those that God has raised up to accomplish the will and purpose of God, this is when we have to have our independance crucified at the foot of the cross.