Born Again Speaking in Tongues

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,396
770
113
what else can I do? You are so belligerent.

Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Matthew 5:11 -
Thank God that one of the most powerful gifts of the Holy Ghost given to the Spirit-filled church is faith.
And not only do we endure but we carry on the good work allotted to us and preach the full gospel of salvation to those sheep
who will hear the voice of Jesus when we share the scriptures and our testimonies.
We can do nothing against the truth and the truth is Jesus says he is "the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but ny me."John 14:6 minus water baptism and speaking in tongues.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,396
770
113
Y

Where in scripture does it state that God's instructions given on the Day of Pentecost were exclusively for the birth of the NT church and not future generations? It does not. Instead it states that the promise is for those present, their children, those who are far off (in future), as many as the Lord shall call. God is still calling people and will until Jesus returns.
I would say that would be an immediate future speaking to Israel in particular to the gift of speaking in tongues..
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,396
770
113
We can do nothing against the truth and the truth is Jesus says he is "the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but ny me."John 14:6 minus water baptism and speaking in tongues.
I think Red x mark implies dislike over the what Christ says. A real believer loves the Lord and responds to what he says, he is like a prophet who says "Thus saith the Lord", This is what the Bible says...
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,257
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
I think Red x mark implies dislike over the what Christ says. A real believer loves the Lord and what he says, he is like a prophet who says "Thus saith the Lord", This is what the Bible says...
No a white X indicates that I simply disagree with you.
And as this thread has proved over and over again worldly Christians who do not pray in tongues have no knowledge whatsoever
about the power and purpose of the Holy Spirit within a believer nor why God wants us to pray to Him in tongues and not with our natural minds.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,458
2,639
113
if digging deep into the word produces only negativity and the negation of all things spiritual, then there is a major problem with that right there. do you recall reading that the word kills but the Spirit gives life? that means something

4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. II Corinthians 3: 4-6

the key is balance and we get that balance from the Bible as a whole unit and not chopped up into just what we want to hear or believe

maturity will NEVER come from just one or the other

so let me ask...it's easy to say 'let the Holy Spirit change us'...how does that happen? in many cases, this forum being an example of such, people become as hard and brittle as an old tree going to fall over in the first wind because their idea of the Holy Spirit changing someone, is to quote scripture and hurl it like a spear (don't apply this to yourself please. I am speaking generally)

we see this in teachers that preach AGAINST the Holy Spirit by saying we don't need gifts anymore because we have the perfect, meaning the Bible. and they turn around and disagree about every 2nd word

no thanks.
I'm sorry if I did not make this clear.

Only believers are filled with the Holy Spirit. This happens when we are saved. The next step after salvation is to become mature in Christ. That is sanctification, which I have never heard mentioned once in my 15 years in various denominational and non-denominational so-called spirit-filled churches.

I see there are 2 routes being presented in this thread for how to live once you are saved. One, is to keep having more and more experiences and depend upon them. And of course, as I said above, many experiences do line up with the Word - like joy, peace, love, comfort, encouragement, etc.

But, the catch is, you need a knowledge of the Word, to clearly check whether your experience lines up with the Word of God. That requires renewing your MIND in the word, by the power of the Holy Spirit. It cannot be an either/or thing. Without a deep knowledge of the Word renewing our minds, and transforming us into the image of Christ, the Spirit has nothing to work with. No amount of jumping up and down, speaking in tongues is ever going to change us so we are more like Christ. As for power, all believers have that as a result of their being filled with the Spirit at salvation.

7seas, I do understand that you are not addicted to experiences, and you do seem to really know the Word of God. So, even though I have addressed this to you, it is really for the others, who have never moved forward in God, since the day they got the so-called "baptism of the HS" which is not found in Scripture. The only baptism, a noun, is water baptism.

But more, I see this whole Pentecostal/charismatic direction as missing totally the whole journey of salvation. We are not perfect when we are justified, although we are made positionally right in the eyes of God, though faith in Christ, and his death and resurrection, and atoning for our sins.

So, if we are not perfect, then how to we grow? Do we grow, by getting an unscriptural baptism, and THEN we are perfect? Never!

Instead, we walk with the Holy Spirit who is given to each born again Christian, which is a different journey for each of us. BUT, it is the same journey, in terms of we grow in the Word, and the Holy Spirit uses it to make us mature. A one time experience in anything doesn't make you mature, especially not spiritually. instead, it is a daily journey, filled with prayer, studying the Word, fellowship and service.

But this Pentecostal movement instead looks at a false Baptism, fake healings, and waiting around for the tongues of fire to descend daily. Or more?

The fact is, tongues of fire, and speaking in tongues were given as a sign of the birth of the church. Not as an ongoing means of sanctification. That is why tongues are confined to Acts, the story of the birth of the church, and the immoral Corinthian, who were not following the Biblical truths, but rather, distorting what Paul had taught them. And then, it died out. It is not mentioned again in the Bible, because the Bible replaced that experience of the early church, as the way to follow Christ. That is why tongues as LiKE fire, never appear again. They were unique to the birth of the church. Surely if the Day of Pentecost was normative, then speaking in tongues would be accompanied by the believer having tongues like fire, too? At least initially. Yet, it is not taught, because it does not happened.

The way the Bible gives to become mature is hard and long. We walk with the Holy Spirit, who arranges for us to grow, in ways we need as different people. For some, it is suffering. For others, it is service, or other ministries. The gifts we are given are to serve, God, his people, and to share the gospel. The deeper we are in the Word, (of course, led by the Spirit that we all have!) the more we become santified or mature, which means we are growing into the image of Christ.

We were created in the image of God. That perfection was lost at the Fall. Christ came to redeem us from the Fall, and change us back into his image. But, that will not be completed until we are glorified at the Eschaton.

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." Romans 8:28-30

How does he do this? Read Romans 8. It does not mention speak in tongues. Unless you want to twist the word "groaning" into "unknown tongues" which has no exegetical basis.

So, I do agree, we need the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us! Absolutely! But, that is not the goal, and never was, of speaking in tongues. God has chosen a much more solid method of helping us mature when we are saved - and that is his Word mediated by the Holy Spirit that we all have in us.

I think tongues is stealing God's glory, and perverting his plans. After 15 years spent in churches that believed this, and just reading the immature responses of many in this forum, I remain convinced that tongues are long gone, and God uses the Word and the Holy Spirit, who was given to us when we were saved, or justified, as his plan to glorify himself, and help us to be transformed into the image of Christ which has always been the triune God's plan for us.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,257
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
It is not mentioned again in the Bible, because the Bible replaced that experience of the early church, as the way to follow Christ.
NO the spirit and work of anti-Christ did that.
From Constantine to the rise of the Papacy and the RCC > another gospel.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,257
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
I think tongues is stealing God's glory, and perverting his plans.
Wow - so much unbelief through ignorance.
And yet in my church we operate speaking in an unknown tongue followed by interpretation.
God confirming tongues in the church and as a gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful.
1Corinthians 4:
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,458
2,639
113
No,most tongue talkers are on fire for God.
You haven't a clue
I guess if you define being on fire for God as jumping around and yelling, dancing, barking in church, or even a more orderly procedure like tongues and then an interpreter, then tongues speakers are certainly showing off that they are so-called, '"on fire" for God.

If you define being on fire for God, as being on mission with God, finding out your gifts, and using them for the glory of God, then, the majority of tongue speakers are not on fire. They are wasting time on externals, while their inner qualities, like humility, love, patience, long suffering, gentleness are not being developed. I knew people who went on mission trips to share the gospel who were tongues speakers. Unfortunately, getting people baptized in the Holy Spirit was more important than God saving them, and helping them grow closer to God, and serving God and maturing.

I've been to lots and and lots of services with people showing off their so-called tongues, and being horribly excessive in these false manifestations of the Spirit. If that is being "on fire for God" I will continue to walk away from that. The Bible NEVER even uses the term "on fire for God!" No, it talks about obeying God, walking with Christ, even in suffering. It talks about being santified and renewing our minds - OUR MINDS in the Word. Not this false image that you think is from God! You and all the other tongues speakers, but especially the Oneness Pentecostals, who would dare to say that a born again Christian is not, because they don't follow their heretical doctrines.

Time for you to study the actual Bible, with no helps from some kind of Pentecostal guide. Then, you will learn the truth, and you will be set free.

"As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord,one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Eph. 4:1-6

"So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work." Eph. 4:11-16

This is the message of how we grow in Christ, not by speaking in tongues, but by becoming mature through all the things mentioned above.

Read all of Ephesians about 20 times, then maybe the light will dawn, and you will see how you have been so badly led astray.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,458
2,639
113
Completely unscriptural.
For one so deep in the Word you sure have it wrong.
NO the spirit and work of anti-Christ did that.
From Constantine to the rise of the Papacy and the RCC > another gospel.
Wow - so much unbelief through ignorance.
And yet in my church we operate speaking in an unknown tongue followed by interpretation.
God confirming tongues in the church and as a gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful.
1Corinthians 4:

First, there was no RCC till the late 4th century, and the NT was finished long before that. There are so few references to tongues in the NT, other than the birth of the church, compared to the rest of the Bible, as to render tongues obsolete as any kind of doctrine.

Are you Oneness Pentecostal? You sure need to read the Bible outside of church, and read everything, and forget this RCC myth. I do not believe the RCC church is from God, I agree it is filled with heresy. But no more so than this tongues nonsense, which was just invented last century.

I worry you don't claim to be "deep in the Word." If you had claimed that, well, perhaps we could get a discussion going. Instead, you have one doctrine, one obsession, and it is tongues. Read the Bible. Read Romans and Hebrews. All about our salvation journey and not a word about tongues. If a doctrine is important, it is found ALL OVER THE BIBLE! Tongues is not. You have failed to really read the whole counsel of God. Instead you have landed on a virtually spurious doctrine, and forgotten about what Christ really wants for us. He wants us to follow him, and Jesus never talked in tongues, did he?

I would urge you to read the Bible. You seem to have fallen into the church of Corinth, instead of the church of God. Study the Trinity, if you dare. Study what God's goal is for our lives, since Genesis 1. It has always been to be the likeness of our Creator. The mature body of Christ. Pentecostals have gone far beyond what is written! As far as 1 Cor. 4 says:

"Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive?And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?" 1 Cor. 4:6-7

Then, read 1 Cor. 15, which I posted above. It is the real gospel not the false gospel of tongues. Paul was angry with the Corinithians in this letter. What was happening was not normative. It was not the gospel, which he clearly spells out in the last chapter. Paul wrote this for a reason, because the true gospel was not being preached in Corinth. I wonder if you have a spirit of humility and can change, like the Corinthians did?

"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sinsaccording to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third dayaccording to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve." 1 Cor. 15:2-5.

This is the true gospel, you are off the track laid down in the Bible. I'm sorry if that hurts, but it is the truth.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
113
Why do you put your shortcomings and failures onto everybody else?
And you cannot transform or renew your mind but by praying in tongues and allowing the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit to
work within your heart and soul > for out of your heart does your mind speak.

Praying what it tongues? Words? You would first have to define what it is or how it renews anything? You just cannot say something without having some sort of foundation. How does it renew? Or is a wonderment we just seek after?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,458
2,639
113
Praying what it tongues? Words? You would first have to define what it is or how it renews anything? You just cannot say something without having some sort of foundation. How does it renew? Or is a wonderment we just seek after?

This is the truth! No one has defined tongues. So, we really can't even agree to disagree right now. I see tongues as a terrible deception, because of my experiences in that movement for 15 years, and because of my studies of the Bible.

Waggles believes something different, including that it renews, although he gives no Scriptures to support that viewpoint. I know that is because there really is no support for tongues the way it is practiced today, unless of course, you are a member of the 1st century church in Corinth, or were there at the birth of the church in Acts.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,396
770
113
No a white X indicates that I simply disagree with you.
And as this thread has proved over and over again worldly Christians who do not pray in tongues have no knowledge whatsoever
about the power and purpose of the Holy Spirit within a believer nor why God wants us to pray to Him in tongues and not with our natural minds.
I cited and quoted Christ words and you disagree. Though adamant you are it seems, you certainly not disagree with me. You disagree with the scripture every time I posted and you have been proven over and over again what the Holy Spirit saith and yet the primary p purpose of the Holy Spirit is to convict sinners to come into the faith. Faith that saves. Equating tongues speaking and water baptism as a way of salvation is another way, a totally different way. This is not the gospel preach by the apostles, it's a fake, false as the error of baptismal regeneration especially had crept into the churches sometime in the 2nd Ce. AD by the false teaches inside the church and became apostate even before the Roman Catholic adopted the Infant Baptism.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
113
Waggles said:

Wow - so much unbelief through ignorance.
Ignorance of what? What the "sign" truly confirms..... unbelief ?

That's easy just look at the law of what I will call ; "Yet for all that they refuse to hear the Lord" and go to the foundation of it. God has assigned of falling back to help identify.

Yet for all that they still fall backward for the filling of self edification as it would seem ,

Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering (mocking) lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV)

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.


21 In the law Isaiah 28:11-13 it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not (unbelief) : but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

And yet in my church we operate speaking in an unknown tongue followed by interpretation.
An unknown tongue followed by a unknown interpretation as private ? Secret language?

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV)We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
stewards of the mysteries of God they the mystery its self as the gospel of wonderment. .

2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful.
Faithful to perform what mystery wonderments ?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
113
what else can I do? You are so belligerent.

Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Matthew 5:11 -
Thank God that one of the most powerful gifts of the Holy Ghost given to the Spirit-filled church is faith.
And not only do we endure but we carry on the good work allotted to us and preach the full gospel of salvation to those sheep
who will hear the voice of Jesus when we share the
No a white X indicates that I simply disagree with you.
And as this thread has proved over and over again worldly Christians who do not pray in tongues have no knowledge whatsoever
about the power and purpose of the Holy Spirit within a believer nor why God wants us to pray to Him in tongues and not with our natural minds.
Again, you believe that before 1908 no spirit filled ore with the Holy Spirit baptised person lived in your country?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
113
This is the truth! No one has defined tongues. So, we really can't even agree to disagree right now. I see tongues as a terrible deception, because of my experiences in that movement for 15 years, and because of my studies of the Bible.

Waggles believes something different, including that it renews, although he gives no Scriptures to support that viewpoint. I know that is because there really is no support for tongues the way it is practiced today, unless of course, you are a member of the 1st century church in Corinth, or were there at the birth of the church in Acts.
The filing is weekly not satisfying to the flesh. As good increase so do those who practice them more unknow languages . Once was enough for me.

I don't think brother Waggle will define what a tongue is ….it will lose the mystery . As it seems those who require a sign before they believe confuse faith with wonderment .

Tongue is simply a new manner of prophecy . If it not prophecy as God's interpretation to us not of us. That leaves one alternative. Another voice of interpretation, earthly inspired by the father of lies. The idea make a noise and find someone to interpret it is not a Biblical teaching.

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV)We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
18,010
113
As for Saul, he was eventually obedient to God's commands and was used to point many to their savior. Paul knew speaking in tongues upon the infilling of the Holy Ghost was a gift from God. And he said he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than the Corinthians. (1 Cor 14:18)

1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Cor 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1 Cor 14:15
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Saul was brought to his knee’s And through that recieved Christ in faith.

He was already (in his own words) blameless according to the law. Hoe could he be any more obedient that he was?

He was saved BECAUSE of his faith, And BECAUSE he repented of his dead works.

Of course he spoke in tongues, He had a mission, To go to the gentiles and show those who did not know God who God was. And give them the gospel. What a better way to show them than to miraculaously speek in their native language.


I pray your not putting yourself in same mold as Paul. Paul would be against you my friend.
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
18,010
113
No a white X indicates that I simply disagree with you.
And as this thread has proved over and over again worldly Christians who do not pray in tongues have no knowledge whatsoever
about the power and purpose of the Holy Spirit within a believer nor why God wants us to pray to Him in tongues and not with our natural minds.
You have no knowledge of God, His goepsl. Or the power of the Holy Spirit. You have fooled yourself into thinking you do.

This thread has not done anything you claim it does
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,257
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
Read the Bible. Read Romans and Hebrews.
That's why I can and do pray in tongues, as I believe the Word of God and are obedient to scripture.
As Jesus himself declared …
15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
Mark 16:
if you believe in Jesus then measure yourself against his word.