Born Again Speaking in Tongues

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
Oh for heavens sake. What makes you think being baptized in Holy Spirit would make one love God less?

It’s the anointing oil poured out on us.

You are too free with your unbelieving words Roger, and the spirit you portray here is criticism not love by any means.

Father and Son wants Sons.
Oh my. You are so fluffy in your doctrine that just about anything passes for spiritual with you. I give you the word of God and you deflect it preferring the fantasies of neo evangelicalism. God loves sinners but God also judges sinners.

You have created a mystique around the baptism of the Holy Spirit that takes away from the reality of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. One baptism and many fillings are for those who are born again by grace through faith.

You need a big dose of reality in your theology.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Salvation- entrance into the kingdom of heaven is by blood only. It is by grace through faith, free to all who believe on Jesus. Passover. I think they both know this EG.
No they do not sis, And if you truly have been reading their posts. You would understand this.

But, the Kingdom of God is within. Here is where we begin in the anointing. Here is the baptism of Holy Spirit and the power to walk as He walked. Ministry. Pentecost.

Then Tabernacles. Sonship.
Baptism of the spirit is the most important thing God does to you. (Of course the cross is the most important) For apart from it. There will never be remission of sin or the anointing of the spirit. Thus there will never be salvation.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,616
10,802
113
God is not served by human hands as a will

I would offer. That which makes a person a true prophet is the feet that bring prophecy. (seed) Apostles are prophets that are sent with prophecy.. declaring the will of God.... prophesying .

God is not served by human hands (Acts 17) as if the Potter needed something from the clay to create a new creature. Turning things upside down takes away the understanding from heaven and gives it to the oral traditions of men.

Jewish flesh were used in ceremonial laws to "represent" belief (faith) redeemed .represented as the the second Adam .

Gentile flesh were used to represent the first Adam un redeemed. . mankind that walks by sight turns things upside as if God was served by human hand.

Animals that are not subject to salvation were used in the same way . God is not served by human flesh or animal flesh like that of the serpent in the garden the death of mankind.

An Ass like a swine are typified as a unclean animal used to symbolize natural unconverted man or a gentile (the first Adam ) According to the cereinioal that was used to preach the gospel as to the suffering of Christ before hand . When the firstborn of a Ass was born(again to represent the first Adam it must be redeemed with a lamb or break its neck to represent the second Adam Christ. . A picture of the gospel .

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

A interesting parable is used in Numbers below to show God is not served with human hand which includes getting his word out (prophecy) In that historically true parable The Holy Spirit prophesied declaring His will as he put his words of prophecy on the tongue of the ass and it restrained the madness of the false prophet Balaam . Again to show their is not need to believe God is served by human hand .he can use a unbeliever to plant the seed of His word just as easy as one who does have faith..

The man in the parable of Mathew 7 is another example. Jesus did not say you never performed those wonderful works through prophecy but I never knew you .He used as a example of unbelief .Just like the Balaam's Ass

Numbers 22:28And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
None of which answered my question.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
Oh my. You are so fluffy in your doctrine that just about anything passes for spiritual with you. I give you the word of God and you deflect it preferring the fantasies of neo evangelicalism. God loves sinners but God also judges sinners.

You have created a mystique around the baptism of the Holy Spirit that takes away from the reality of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. One baptism and many fillings are for those who are born again by grace through faith.

You need a big dose of reality in your theology.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Theology?

You make this all about doctrine when it’s life in the Spirit.

Far from fluff my dear man.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
]Oh my. You are so fluffy in your doctrine that just about anything passes for spiritual with you. I give you the word of God and you deflect it preferring the fantasies of neo evangelicalism. God loves sinners but God also judges sinners.



Joh 12:45 The one who sees me sees the one who sent me.


Joh 12:46 I have come into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me will not remain in the darkness.


Joh 12:47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, because I did not come to condemn the world but to save it.


Joh 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has something to judge him: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day,


Joh 12:49 because I have not spoken on my own authority. Instead, the Father who sent me has himself commanded me what to say and how to speak.


Joh 12:50 And I know that what he commands brings eternal life. What I speak, therefore, I speak just as the Father has told me."





You have created a mystique around the baptism of the Holy Spirit that takes away from the reality of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. One baptism and many fillings are for those who are born again by grace through faith.

You need a big dose of reality in your theology.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
He hasn't stated that, but it is a direct implication of what he has stated.
He says alot of stuff that to be honest does nto make any sense.. Thats why I just prety much do not read his posts anymore.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
No they do not sis, And if you truly have been reading their posts. You would understand this.



Baptism of the spirit is the most important thing God does to you. (Of course the cross is the most important) For apart from it. There will never be remission of sin or the anointing of the spirit. Thus there will never be salvation.
Ok, one says tongues is the evidence of the baptism.

Is it wrong? The apostles laid hands on those who then spoke in tongues in Acts.

I say these things show the baptism. Boldness to speak or to move. This is what comes on us in the anointing. We know that we know this is God, not of us.

The words of power. All should recognize. And the actions. Healings, deliverances from demonic powers.

It does begin with either tongues or prophecy, or both.

The other? Baptism in water? Jesus was. Why would we not? Unless we are to be executed, we should be able. Or ill.

Is He not our pattern?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ok, one says tongues is the evidence of the baptism.

Is it wrong? The apostles laid hands on those who then spoke in tongues in Acts.
Yes it is wrong

because he says EVERYONE who is saved WILL speak in tongues, if not, your not saved, (the bible is clear not everyone even then has the gift of tongues)


Do you believe this sis?

They also demand we are saved by the baptism of men, not the baptism of God. Do you believe this?

I say these things show the baptism. Boldness to speak or to move. This is what comes on us in the anointing. We know that we know this is God, not of us.

The words of power. All should recognize. And the actions. Healings, deliverances from demonic powers.

It does begin with either tongues or prophecy, or both.

The other? Baptism in water? Jesus was. Why would we not? Unless we are to be executed, we should be able. Or ill.

Is He not our pattern?
I am not saying we should not be baptised in water, that was Gods first command, if we do not do it, there is somethign wrong

But they say we re NOT SAVED until our baptism in water, they claim IT (not the washing of water by the word through the HS) is where we receive remission of sin.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
Theology?

You make this all about doctrine when it’s life in the Spirit.

Far from fluff my dear man.
The word of God is Spirit. We have our being in the word of God. You cast aside the word and clothe your behaviors in Spirit that you might accommodate the worlds ways and goals.

Fluff or husks neither feed and nourish the soul. The Christian lives by feeding on the word of God. Neo evangelicalism starves for lack of Spiritual nourishment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
113
Preaching the Word is not necessarily prophecy, but one can prophesy during a preached message.

Confusing? It wouldn’t be if all moved in the giftings.

Bet that makes some angry but can’t help it.
I would think it causes confusion . If it would make a person angry (anger blinds the mind) it would not resolve the fact that men prophesy; "declare the will of God" . God applies the seed on the good ground a prepared heart. Like the heart of the noble Bereans moved to search the scriptures daily to see if they have the approval of God. They were used to represent Christianity a kingdom of priests after the new manner of Melchedik as Ambassadors for Christ.

In that way God's name is Jealous (Exodus 34:14) He alone owns all things and is not served by human hands as a will.

There are times when the gospel does not seem to be having a affect. The outcome it would seem because Christ did not apply it to a persons heart or something that could benefit as a latter blessing. It does not mean we do not lose our reward of salvation .A gift of his reward according to His three day labor of love.

1 Corinthians 3:6-8 (KJV) I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

We are rewarded according to our labor as in Romans 10: " how beautiful are the feet" of those bring the understanding of God. With feet used to represent the gospel.

He promises us he will not forget the good works we have shown towards His name

Hebrews 6:10For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

The any man's work below. . . is the gospel he offers.. If Christ applies it to the heart of the person he shall receive a reward acknowledging it was Christ working in them to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. who causes the growth of the seed preached . If the Holy Spirit does not apply new spirit life to the person hearing the gospel the would suffer the loss of that hope but not his salvation . The reward of grace given to us. Christ cannot deny Himself if he has given His seed of new spirit life to us.

Note....( green ) my addition

If any man's work (brining gospel) abide which he hath built thereupon, (Christ the seed) he shall receive a reward. If any man's (brining gospel) work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire1 Corinthians 3:14-15

Yet so as by the Daniel fire

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
Yes it is wrong

because he says EVERYONE who is saved WILL speak in tongues, if not, your not saved, (the bible is clear not everyone even then has the gift of tongues)


I thought he was saying that all who have received the baptism would speak in tongues.

Salvation begins with the message of the Cross and the blood sacrifice preached, heard, and believed on. This would be whosoever will would it not EG?

I also believe the new birth happened to the disciples after Jesus rose from death and breathed on them. It doesn’t say that they were repentant but I do believe they were. Especially Peter with His denial. But, this is the Spirit of Christ that Paul spoke of, saying without, we are none of His.

But, then told to wait for the power to come. This was the way for them but now it can occur this way, or simultaneously with water baptism, or at home alone or any other place alone with God.

Do you believe this sis?

They also demand we are saved by the baptism of men, not the baptism of God. Do you believe this?

Some teach there is a work within, but others teach it’s symbolic. I think it’s both. But, again...salvation beginning is by faith in the blood sacrifice.

I believe...follow Jesus.



I am not saying we should not be baptised in water, that was Gods first command, if we do not do it, there is somethign wrong

But they say we re NOT SAVED until our baptism in water, they claim IT (not the washing of water by the word through the HS) is where we receive remission of sin.

I want to look at remission of sin. Will get back to you. I want to see if there’s a reason for saying this.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
The word of God is Spirit. We have our being in the word of God. You cast aside the word and clothe your behaviors in Spirit that you might accommodate the worlds ways and goals.

Fluff or husks neither feed and nourish the soul. The Christian lives by feeding on the word of God. Neo evangelicalism starves for lack of Spiritual nourishment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are so far off base. The Lord would never give us anything for our personal gain in a worldly way.

Be happy with your religion.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes it is wrong

because he says EVERYONE who is saved WILL speak in tongues, if not, your not saved, (the bible is clear not everyone even then has the gift of tongues)


I thought he was saying that all who have received the baptism would speak in tongues.

Salvation begins with the message of the Cross and the blood sacrifice preached, heard, and believed on. This would be whosoever will would it not EG?

I also believe the new birth happened to the disciples after Jesus rose from death and breathed on them. It doesn’t say that they were repentant but I do believe they were. Especially Peter with His denial. But, this is the Spirit of Christ that Paul spoke of, saying without, we are none of His.

But, then told to wait for the power to come. This was the way for them but now it can occur this way, or simultaneously with water baptism, or at home alone or any other place alone with God.
You seem to be the only one defending them sis, Even your brothers and sisters who believe in gifting do not support their gospel. I do not see how you can be reading what they post and not see what they are really saying

Some teach there is a work within, but others teach it’s symbolic. I think it’s both. But, again...salvation beginning is by faith in the blood sacrifice.

I believe...follow Jesus.
How many gospels are there?

Is there people who are saved without baptism, and people who are saved with? If so. That makes two gospels.

I want to look at remission of sin. Will get back to you. I want to see if there’s a reason for saying this.
There is, their misinterpretation of acts 2.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
You are so far off base. The Lord would never give us anything for our personal gain in a worldly way.

Be happy with your religion.
That is exactly how best to describe neo evangelicalism. Be happy with no conflict. Jesus told us to expect to suffer for the faith. To endure adversity. You want nothing but rainbows and unicorns. I fear that you are far from what the bible teaches.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
113
stonesoffire said:


Ok, one says tongues is the evidence of the baptism.

Is it wrong? The apostles laid hands on those who then spoke in tongues in Acts.
We are faced like Peter in Mathew 16. Not what do men (flesh and blood) say? But what does the Spirit of Christ that indwells the believers says. He asks us... what do you say?

What is the purpose in the metaphor of laying on of hands... seeing hands represent the will in the bible. God does not have hands. The Bible defines the ceremonial shadow laying on of hands a desire that the will of God will be done. many shadow worshipers in the world .Jesus called them a evil generation the generation of natural unconverted men (shadow chasers)

We must be careful on how we say we hear God. Many seed snatchers now days

Where can we find the foundation of the doctrine of tongues so we can rightfully divide according to the loving Commandment . 2 Timothy 2:15 .So that we can seek His approval and not that of men, each other. ..

What are tongues and what is the sign of tongues as a law not subject to chnge (1 corithians 14:22-23) confirm in regard to. . . . "yet for all that they refuse to have faith in me"?

Then the rest of the doctrine fall into place.

Some make it the gospel of unknowns? Unkonw foundation. Unknow words, Unknow what the sign confirms .Unknow who to go to find a private interpretation as what they think the unknown sounds mean.?

Much research is required if you are to seek the approval of our father in heaven . He has not left us as orphans with no understanding (unknown tongues)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
Am thinking that Johns baptism of water before Jesus died and resurrected could of been “for” remission of sin. The reason being animal sacrifices never gave freedom beyond that one year and had to be repeated. Plus Johns baptism might have been a different baptism. I want to further explore this. The reason I say this is because they had many washings. Johns was the preparation for Messiah to come. Was it a sign? Never before done?

But, the scriptures that use the word remission after the resurrection state it’s repentance and His blood that gives remission or freedom from our sin.

There is one in the KJV that hints at water baptism and remission.

Act 2:38 Then G1161  Peter G4074  said G5346  unto G4314  them, G846  Repent, G3340  and G2532  be baptized G907  every one G1538  of you G5216  in G1909  the G3588  name G3686  of Jesus G2424  Christ G5547  for G1519  the remission G859  of sins, G266  and G2532  ye shall receive G2983  the G3588  gift G1431  of the G3588  Holy G40  Ghost. G4151 

Here it is His name. This would not be preparation for Messiah but for Holy Spirit.

So it’s repentance after the gospel, baptism preparation, and receiving Holy Spirit.

Remission meaning freedom is blood sacrifice of atonement, would it not?

Thanks for your question. I never saw this before. 😉
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,549
584
113
Why would you or anyone else have any need to know this? Is this supposed to make you more enlightened? Bring you closer to God? Make you a more mature christian?

God evidently told us what we needed to know. Is that not enough for you?
In shorter form your answer = "No." :)

However, those who like to subvert the scriptures could post almost any verse they wanted to, claiming it answers the question...then claim they used the word to answer.

You'd said you'd never heard a question that couldn't be answered by use of scripture alone. Now you have been presented with one. If you wanted to, you could receive this truth, and go on to learn that there are MANY questions that aren't answerable by scripture alone. The answer to these questions is in God and in truth, neither of which are fully contained in the bible.

And no, this isn't an attempt to start a debate. It's just a truth presented for those with ears to hear. I pray you will be one of them.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
Something just occurred to me.

Jesus asked the Pharisees what was Johns baptism. Of men or of God? I always wondered what He meant.

If it was a different baptism that was the sign of Messiah to come, then the question to them makes perfect sense.

I still need to know for certainty.