Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,748
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How many kinds of sign other than in respect to #1 belief faith...or "2 unbelief no faith. . . does it describe? The father of lies would have us to believe all one ad the same He needs the things seen to give himself a voice. He hates prophecy. it show he is not a true source of faith again he need the things seen to give him any power (no voice of his own in Deaf and Dumber)

Signs that accompany salvation that follow. . . or signs we are to seek after,. Signs of un-belief. . . no faith coming form hearing God . The yet for all that they refuse to hear the Lord. as it is written or...... signs of belief using metaphor to speak of the new things that accompany salvation like a new tongue, "the gospel" it can cast out demons and other metaphors that speak of the unseen new attributes we a privileged to carry …..protecting us from the wiles of the evil one. .the poison of false prophecy.

on guard touche . . . . LOl
Which was the sign to Mary? The sign to Hezekiah? The sign to Joshua? How about the sign of the rainbow? Which were they? Where in Scripture are these signs categorized as such?

NOWHERE!
 

Gift1982

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2018
39
2
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uh huh

just like your thread on hell

next you will tell us that you are not here to debate and you don't answer critics of your interpretation as in your other treatise

you have both cessationists and non cessationists alarmed at your lack of integrity and false humility

can't wait to see what you do next :sneaky:
you know Satan is the accuser. he already has enough help dont be a tool.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
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so let me get this straight

eg and wolfie are not really sure what stones is saying but they know she is wrong

eg knows she is wrong and has taken it so far as to say what she believes is not from the word of God because he knows, yes he knows, that you receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit upon salvation. now he knows this because he cannot wrap his mind around how it really happens because it has not happened to him and so that means no one else has had it happen either

he has noticed he does not have a special power, but he knows he doesn't want it even if it is available because he does not have it

good for him. you sure can't beat that type of reasoning...not even with a wooden spoon

we will simply dismiss the fact that Jesus said that the disciples and other believers would have POWER to witness for Him AFTER the Holy Spirit came upon them. they were already saved and believing in Jesus so it was AFTER salvation and not upon salvation

and of course wolfie is a cessationist who denies any and all scripture or historical references and goes on to say that no one has answered him. of course that is now true, because no one who has answered him, will continue to answer him, after answering him mulitple times and being told by him that you have not answered him

one day they will both find out they were wrong. not saying they are not saved; that is God's domain

but having taught against the truth and pounded others who have tried skillfully and patiently to lead them out of their circular reasoning, it might cause embarrassment. is there embarrassment in the after life? :unsure:

now at least one of these 2 have told me in no uncertain terms that they have me on ignore

stay tuned to see if that is true or not. it's like holding your breath until you are purple as some children are wont to do

you might pass out first though :LOL:

please appreciate the sarcastic humor for what it is worth. neither of you can beat it. getting angry does not count ;)
Well, i cant agree with your post. Sorry for tense you. If your believing about the baptism with the Holy Spirit would be taught in the bible, i would not be against your teaching. But it is not and you judge me because I dont believe an 119 years old man made doctrine.
Yes,,it is better to ignore me. Otherwise you must confront yourself with the fact that you trust an man made doctrine.
 

Gift1982

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2018
39
2
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Way too much cherry picking and conjucture.
The word blows all that outta the water big time
yet you cant exactly explain in exactly what i shared is conjecture from the word ? you just say that expecting people to believe you. it shouldnt be too hard, since i didnt post much. I mentioned two chapters. and a made a few statements about each. So what statement is conjecture ? or are you just blowing hot air or something . so many people pretending to be Christians quick to accuse , and yet dont know anything about the Bible For themselves .
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,998
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That is your opinion but in John 20:22 Jesus breathed on them and said: " Recieve the Holy Spirit". The risen Lord said this and He stayed with them 40 days, then after instructing the Disciples to go and wait for power from on High. They had the Holy Spirit in them when Jesus said to them. "Recieve the Holy Spirit." in John 20:22. They confessed Jesus is Lord (Roman 10:9-10) and they believed and were saved. Just as we are today when we place our faith in the Risen Lord.
Is this the exception or the rule before Pentecost? In John 7:38-39, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The disciples were already believers and already saved (with the exception of Judas Iscariot) prior to Pentecost. In Matthew 16:16, we read - Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Luke 24:49 Jesus tell them to go and wait for something more Power from on high.
Amen! And they did receive power from on high.

What more would one need? Jesus was with them for 40 days. In the Book of Acts chapter one, the context continues Jesus is speaking in Acts 1:8 - "You shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you. to be a witness". They did not need the Holy Spirit to be saved at Pentecost, they were already saved.
I'm not denying they were already saved. The Holy Spirit was not yet given, yet believers were still saved prior to Pentecost through believing in His name. (John 1:12) Again exception, not the rule. How many believers today are saved and have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit? Answer - 0 Acts is a transitional book.

They were empowered as the Holy Spirit came upon them as the Holy Spirit did in the old testament call the Spirit of the Lord or Spirit of the living God. Same Holy Spirit but now The Holy Spirit abides with us as John chapter 14 states. Your suggestion of a special experience for the elite few is not what the word of God teaches. Jesus said in Luke 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”"
The Holy Spirit came upon certain people (but not everyone) in the old testament in power to accomplish specific tasks. The Holy Spirit abides in all believers today (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13) and not merely the elite few. I never said the Holy Spirit only abides in an elite few. You may have misunderstood my last post. :unsure:

what are you asking for? The Holy Spirit comes to be in you as Jesus said in John chapter 14. You do not have to ask for what is given for salvation one just needs to place faith in the Lord Jesus Christ they will be saved and receive the Holy Spirit.
Amen! (y)

The Holy Spirit does more than what some think He does. He is with us, in us, and comes upon us.
I don't disagree.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,998
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with the sign, the evidence of such - speaking in a new tongue -praying in the Holy Spirit.
Why are you so obsessed with signs/tongues in particular?

Thus the word of God is true and only those who speak in tongues (sign and evidence) are baptized in the Holy Spirit. No tongues, no indwelling Holy Spirit.
This is problematic. Do you really believe that believers who have not spoken in tongues have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit and are not saved?
 

Gift1982

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2018
39
2
8
The admins are really abusive in this form. They promote bad teachings, and then block threads for no reason . when asked for a reason none is given. CS1
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,898
2,742
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Is this the exception or the rule before Pentecost? In John 7:38-39, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The disciples were already believers and already saved (with the exception of Judas Iscariot) prior to Pentecost. In Matthew 16:16, we read - Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Amen! And they did receive power from on high.

I'm not denying they were already saved. The Holy Spirit was not yet given, yet believers were still saved prior to Pentecost through believing in His name. (John 1:12) Again exception, not the rule. How many believers today are saved and have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit? Answer - 0 Acts is a transitional book.

The Holy Spirit came upon certain people (but not everyone) in the old testament in power to accomplish specific tasks. The Holy Spirit abides in all believers today (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13) and not merely the elite few. I never said the Holy Spirit only abides in an elite few. You may have misunderstood my last post. :unsure:

Amen! (y)

I don't disagree.
think about in Before resurrection and after Resurrection. The works the disciples did with Jesus sending them and the works after The Holy Spirit empowered them. Jesus said in John 14:17-18
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,898
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The admins are really abusive in this form. They promote bad teachings, and then block threads for no reason . when asked for a reason none is given. CS1
just because you have an issue with those who disagree with you don't make about Admin, no one has abused you. No one has banned you. You just have those who think you are wrong and guess what you think they are wrong. no one is promoting bad teaching here you just might be bad teacher LOL. what thread was blocked? If you going to make false accusations please pm me and let me know which one. Because my dear friends in Admin are long-suffering and do not block threads at drop of a hat.

Thank you for your input
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
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Which was the sign to Mary? The sign to Hezekiah? The sign to Joshua? How about the sign of the rainbow? Which were they? Where in Scripture are these signs categorized as such?

NOWHERE!
Sign to Mary was fullfed she gave birth ,

Rainbow as a shadow points to a new kind of peace .It does not create peace like. . . lets pray for a rainbow .Other have used it to take away the peace that comes from following the true peace. Its has rained on their rainbow parades more than once. Not a rainbow in the sky. Just a bunch of colorful wet people.

Hezekiah the sign of a good king used in the parable involving the times when there were kings in Israel .he was part of preparing the way for the reformation.

Joshua meaning savior was used a part of a parable that uses 7 trumpets to be compared in the book of Revelation as another parable. Spiritual meaning hid. The example of using the temporal literal way with walls falling to represent the last day the end of the world according to the signified language. Joshua meaning savior as sign was a type of Christ. other were use in similar parables in the same way. that sign used Joshua as metaphor or type.

Not one is a sign as a "wonderment maker or creator" that one could seek after to self edify their own flesh to confirm something?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,898
2,742
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Is this the exception or the rule before Pentecost? In John 7:38-39, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The disciples were already believers and already saved (with the exception of Judas Iscariot) prior to Pentecost. In Matthew 16:16, we read - Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Amen! And they did receive power from on high.

I'm not denying they were already saved. The Holy Spirit was not yet given, yet believers were still saved prior to Pentecost through believing in His name. (John 1:12) Again exception, not the rule. How many believers today are saved and have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit? Answer - 0 Acts is a transitional book.

The Holy Spirit came upon certain people (but not everyone) in the old testament in power to accomplish specific tasks. The Holy Spirit abides in all believers today (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13) and not merely the elite few. I never said the Holy Spirit only abides in an elite few. You may have misunderstood my last post. :unsure:

Amen! (y)

I don't disagree.

No your not a bad Guy :)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,998
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all believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit Ephesians 1:13, but the book of Acts clearly clearly reveals that you can be saved but not baptized in the Holy Spirit
Yes, all believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). The book of Acts is a transitional book. Prior to Pentecost, believers did not yet receive the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 7:38-39). After Pentecost, at times, the receiving of the Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles laid hands on them (exception, not the rule - Acts 8:17; 19:6). This seems to have caused much confusion. The Mormons have turned laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit into the rule for today. My wife grew up in the RLDS church (similar to LDS) and they did the same.

I mean honestly, now you folks are trying to say we think we are elite? sorry, but that is truly garbage and a snare and very untrue
I don't believe that ALL Pentecostals believe they are elite, yet there are certain people within Pentecostal circles who speak in tongues and act superior to believers who do not speak in tongues and yet certain others within Pentecostal circles believe that unless you speak in tongues you will not be saved. I know former Pentecostals who have left certain Pentecostal churches because of that kind of nonsense (including my older brother) but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

yes, it is the same Holy Spirit, but two separate occasions. you belong to Christ but you are not Spirit baptized
I don't see in scripture where baptism with the Holy Spirit happens under two separate occasions. I see where ALL believers are baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) and certain believers are "filled" with the Holy Spirit to accomplish specific tasks, as we saw at Pentecost when they began to speak in other tongues and those listening heard them speak in their own language.

that's the simple truth. actually, life as scripture tells it, is only possible when one is baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Do you mean "filled" with the Holy Spirit as they were in Acts 2:4?

easy to just say that miracles etc are no longer for today so a person has no need to examine their faith or even believe that God has a life for them they might not be able to live without supernatural intervention
I believe in miracles today, yet there are also counterfeit movements and deception. We need to be discerning.

now not everyone will really understand that last sentence. that is also just a simple truth
Becoming born again is a supernatural experience, along with living the Christian life, which is not without supernatural intervention, yet there are also counterfeit movements out there.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,898
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Is this the exception or the rule before Pentecost? In John 7:38-39, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The disciples were already believers and already saved (with the exception of Judas Iscariot) prior to Pentecost. In Matthew 16:16, we read - Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Amen! And they did receive power from on high.

I'm not denying they were already saved. The Holy Spirit was not yet given, yet believers were still saved prior to Pentecost through believing in His name. (John 1:12) Again exception, not the rule. How many believers today are saved and have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit? Answer - 0 Acts is a transitional book.

The Holy Spirit came upon certain people (but not everyone) in the old testament in power to accomplish specific tasks. The Holy Spirit abides in all believers today (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13) and not merely the elite few. I never said the Holy Spirit only abides in an elite few. You may have misunderstood my last post. :unsure:

Amen! (y)

I don't disagree.
I'm not denying they were already saved. The Holy Spirit was not yet given, yet believers were still saved prior to Pentecost through believing in His name. (John 1:12) Again exception, not the rule. How many believers today are saved and have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit? Answer - 0 Acts is a transitional book.

The Holy Spirit had been given in John 20 when Jesus breathed on them. After the resurrection, it was the Norm. indwelling happens when you are saved. empowerment is when the Holy Spirit comes upon you like the anointing, or unction
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,898
2,742
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Yes, all believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). The book of Acts is a transitional book. Prior to Pentecost, believers did not yet receive the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 7:38-39). After Pentecost, at times, the receiving of the Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles laid hands on them (exception, not the rule - Acts 8:17; 19:6). This seems to have caused much confusion. The Mormons have turned laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit into the rule for today. My wife grew up in the RLDS church (similar to LDS) and they did the same.

I don't believe that ALL Pentecostals believe they are elite, yet there are certain people within Pentecostal circles who speak in tongues and act superior to believers who do not speak in tongues and yet certain others within Pentecostal circles believe that unless you speak in tongues you will not be saved. I know former Pentecostals who have left certain Pentecostal churches because of that kind of nonsense (including my older brother) but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

I don't see in scripture where baptism with the Holy Spirit happens under two separate occasions. I see where ALL believers are baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) and certain believers are "filled" with the Holy Spirit to accomplish specific tasks, as we saw at Pentecost when they began to speak in other tongues and those listening heard them speak in their own language.

Do you mean "filled" with the Holy Spirit as they were in Acts 2?

I believe in miracles today, yet there are also counterfeit movements and deception. We need to be discerning.

Becoming born again is a supernatural experience, along with living the Christian life, which is not without supernatural intervention, yet there are also counterfeit movements out there.

yes there are those in certain groups who teach an elitcing of doctrine as the some Calvinist do and oneness
 

Gift1982

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2018
39
2
8
just because you have an issue with those who disagree with you don't make about Admin, no one has abused you. No one has banned you. You just have those who think you are wrong and guess what you think they are wrong. no one is promoting bad teaching here you just might be bad teacher LOL. what thread was blocked? If you going to make false accusations please pm me and let me know which one. Because my dear friends in Admin are long-suffering and do not block threads at drop of a hat.

Thank you for your input

yet you prevented me from even posting a thread ?

wounder how many threads dont actually get through from Christians .
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,898
2,742
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yet you prevented me from even posting a thread ?

wounder how many threads dont actually get through from Christians .
please send me a PM and let me know what I prevented you from doing thank you. Do not make accusations that are not true. thank you
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,998
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The Holy Spirit had been given in John 20 when Jesus breathed on them.
Yes, Jesus breathed on the disciples (but not on everyone) and they received the Holy Spirit in John 20. They were on a mission and had a task to perform at Pentecost.

After the resurrection, it was the Norm. indwelling happens when you are saved. empowerment is when the Holy Spirit comes upon you like the anointing, or unction
Yes, after the resurrection it was the Norm for all to receive the Holy Spirit, which is in harmony with John 7:38-39. Empowerment/anointing/unction sounds like what happens when one is "filled" with the Holy Spirit. Is this what Pentecostals refer to as the "baptism of the Holy Spirit?" I could see where that would cause confusion.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,898
2,742
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Yes, Jesus breathed on the disciples (but not on everyone) and they received the Holy Spirit in John 20. They were on a mission and had a task to perform at Pentecost.

Yes, after the resurrection it was the Norm for all to receive the Holy Spirit, which is in harmony with John 7:38-39. Empowerment/anointing/unction sounds like what happens when one is "filled" with the Holy Spirit. Is this what Pentecostals refer to as the "baptism of the Holy Spirit?" I could see where that would cause confusion.
yes, sir,

when many see the word Baptism they immediately think of Baptized. They contextually two different things depending on where and how they are used in the text or verse or chapter.

John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

a great example in John 1:33 " sent me to baptize (baptizō ) with water or in water.

Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth(baptizo~) with the Holy Ghost.

not with water also means to be clothed with emerged in repeatedly same word but two different contexts

Baptized, Baptism, Baptizing, and Filled with are all terms to study
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
5,834
2,418
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The admins are really abusive in this form. They promote bad teachings, and then block threads for no reason . when asked for a reason none is given. CS1
yet you prevented me from even posting a thread ?

wounder how many threads dont actually get through from Christians .
You might want to at least marginally know what you are talking about prior to making random accusations.

You posted a new thread 45 minutes ago and within 15 minutes posted that it had been blocked "for no reason". Your thread was not "blocked", it was sitting in an approval que (just like every new thread OP) waiting to be approved prior to being posted publicly. There are only a couple of us on CC staff that have the authority (or ability) to screen new threads and CS1 is not one of them. I am one of those persons but I tend to look at reports prior to new thread approvals when I log in so I found your beef about your thread not being posted even before I saw the thread itself.

New threads (just like new member approvals) can take anywhere from a couple of seconds to 8 hours or more depending on the time of day since CC is predominantly staffed by volunteers like myself who have jobs and families.

I will consider your thread just as soon as I am aware that you have apologized to CS1 for your false accusation just as publicly as you accused him.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
5,834
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I will consider your thread just as soon as I am aware that you have apologized to CS1 for your false accusation just as publicly as you accused him.
Never mind, since it is clear from another thread you posted recently that you are pushing the heresy of annihilationism, you won't be here to apologize.