BORN AGAIN?

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Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#1
Ive got some questions about being born again. Im not sure it means what people say it means. Ya know how some will say they were saved and then tell ya the specific day that they were born again. That doesnt fit with scripture.

ROMANS 8 [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Scripture says you are saved by hope....well just read above scripture. Now if someone claims they are already saved then what does he hope for?

LAM.3 [24] The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.[25] The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.[26] IT IS GOOD THAT A MAN SHOULD BOTH HOPE AND QUIETLY WAIT FOR THE SALVATION OF THE LORD.

1THES.5 [7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.[8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the HOPE OF SALVATION.[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

What does it really mean to be born again according to scripture
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#2
Ive got some questions about being born again. Im not sure it means what people say it means. Ya know how some will say they were saved and then tell ya the specific day that they were born again. That doesnt fit with scripture.

ROMANS 8 [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Scripture says you are saved by hope....well just read above scripture. Now if someone claims they are already saved then what does he hope for?

LAM.3 [24] The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.[25] The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.[26] IT IS GOOD THAT A MAN SHOULD BOTH HOPE AND QUIETLY WAIT FOR THE SALVATION OF THE LORD.

1THES.5 [7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.[8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the HOPE OF SALVATION.[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

What does it really mean to be born again according to scripture
Congrats. You have just found the true church of Christ. :)
 
A

Alysa825

Guest
#3
I don't have my bible to give you exact scripture references at the moment, but maybe I can help. If you are already saved then the hope in what you have not seen is heaven. We still have not seen it, but we hope (have faith) that it exists and that someday we will see it.

Now on the side of being born again: there is a scripture that says that when we are in Christ we become a new creature, that old things pass away and all things become new. We are born again when we accept Christ into our hearts and we receive the holy spirit. We already have fleshly desires, but when the holy spirit comes, he gives us godly desires. Those godly desires won't just overcome the fleshly desires on their own. We have to be willing to submit to those godly desires and make it a point to do our best and to have a relationship with God. As we submit to Him, we begin to lose fleshly desires (die to self). 1 John 3:6 in the amplified bible says, [FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him-- deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits sin..." In other words, there are 2 parts to being born again-- 1. accept Christ and 2.submit our will to his. If we accept Christ but still continue to "deliberately, knowingly, habitually commit sin" then we are not born again. We will not be perfect, but as long as we are trying, God is pleased with us and we ARE born again because we are BECOMING a new creature in Christ.[/FONT]
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#4
Ive got some questions about being born again. Im not sure it means what people say it means. Ya know how some will say they were saved and then tell ya the specific day that they were born again. That doesnt fit with scripture.

ROMANS 8 [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Scripture says you are saved by hope....well just read above scripture. Now if someone claims they are already saved then what does he hope for?

LAM.3 [24] The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.[25] The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.[26] IT IS GOOD THAT A MAN SHOULD BOTH HOPE AND QUIETLY WAIT FOR THE SALVATION OF THE LORD.

1THES.5 [7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.[8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the HOPE OF SALVATION.[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

What does it really mean to be born again according to scripture
The violent who try to take the kingdom of God by force are they who do not really listen to God's word through his prophets nor through the scriptures and they want it all to be easy for them, their way or the highway, so to speak.

We see them here: Matthew 11:16-17 "But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented."

They could not dance or lament as they were filled up with believing that they had been sealed to God's kingdom as it were a promise of God made to their flesh, even today for those who claim to be of the congregation of God just as for the self-righteous Jews back then.

When the truth is spoken to them they do not hear it but instead resort to violence against it, thinking in their pride that they are already sealed and saved of God.

Here is where they turn to that violence: Matthew 11:18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."

To be continued. :)
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#5
Continued from post #4

Satan the age old serpent is like a chameleon, able to changes his color to conceal himself in every situation of men in their flesh and so for the part of the church which is yet really only laboring by their flesh to try to enter Christ's true church, these ones who are actually unaware workers for Satan pushing a doctrine similar but in a slightly different color than the idea of the prideful Jews who relied on the promises of God as being to their flesh and obtained through the flesh.

Thus the new twist we find is the doctrine which claims that Christ has covered our sins in our flesh so that we are yet saved even if we yet sin in the flesh. The chameleon has simply tried to seduce us to believe that even though those promises now come through Christ, they can be in line to receive those promises with no need to completely forsake the flesh and the sin in the flesh, many even claiming that God through Christ does it all for us.

2 Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

2 Corinthians 11:12 "But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
 
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#6
Continued from post #5

John 8:34 "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

Romans 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

James 4:7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#7
John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#8
Continued from post #6

There are many other scriptures similar to the ones you have finally had yours eyes opened to notice.

Some are a bit obscured by translation and copying even among the Greek language manuscripts.

One such scripture text is, 1 Peter 2:1 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious." (KJV)

We find that there is actually more said in verse two there in most of the ancient manuscripts that relate that text. That is why these other translations translate that same passage of scripture in the following ways:

1 Peter 2:1 "Putting away therefore all wickedness, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 as newborn babes, long for the spiritual milk which is without guile, that ye may grow thereby unto salvation;
3 if ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.." (ASV)

1 Peter 2:1 "So putting away all wrongdoing, and all tricks and deceits and envies and evil talk,
2 Be full of desire for the true milk of the word, as babies at their mothers' breasts, so that you may go on to salvation;
3 If you have had a taste of the grace of the Lord.." (BBE)

1 Peter 2:1 "Laying aside therefore all malice and all guile and hypocrisies and envyings and all evil speakings,
2 as newborn babes desire earnestly the pure mental milk of the word, that by it ye may grow up to salvation,
3 if indeed ye have tasted that the Lord is good." (Darby Version)

1 Peter 2:1 "Wherefore laying away all malice, and all guile, and dissimulations, and envies, and all detractions,
2 As newborn babes, desire the rational milk without guile, that thereby you may grow unto salvation:
3 If so be you have tasted that the Lord is sweet." (Douay-Rheims)

1 Peter 2:1 "Rid yourselves therefore of all ill-will and all deceitfulness, of insincerity and envy, and of all evil speaking.
2 Thirst, like newly-born infants, for pure milk for the soul, that by it you may grow up to salvation;
3 if you have had any experience of the goodness of the Lord." (WEY)

In light of all that, what does a verse like this one really mean? 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

It means that we must think about whether we are really in Christ for we cannot be in him if we yet are indulging our flesh to sin.
 
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May 15, 2013
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#9
Ive got some questions about being born again. Im not sure it means what people say it means. Ya know how some will say they were saved and then tell ya the specific day that they were born again. That doesnt fit with scripture.

ROMANS 8 [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Scripture says you are saved by hope....well just read above scripture. Now if someone claims they are already saved then what does he hope for?

LAM.3 [24] The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.[25] The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.[26] IT IS GOOD THAT A MAN SHOULD BOTH HOPE AND QUIETLY WAIT FOR THE SALVATION OF THE LORD.

1THES.5 [7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.[8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the HOPE OF SALVATION.[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

What does it really mean to be born again according to scripture
Before we come to Christ, we were without a spiritual soul; until we accepted Christ and His teachings, and then the Holy spirit give us the seed and it water it until it control the whole physical body; and then you'll be Born a second time, but not by the physical, but by the spirit. Now there's wolves out there that pretending to had been born of the spirit, but later on you'll know them that they doesn't have the spirit in them by their action and or what they desire. It's confusing when the devil knows how to act like children of God.

hypocrite [ˈhɪpəkrɪt]na person who pretends to be what he is not[from Old French ipocrite, via Late Latin, from Greek hupokritēs one who plays a part, from hupokrinein to feign, from krinein to judge]
hypocritical adj
hypocritically adv

Matthew 7:16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?


 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,011
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#10
John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
To say any less would be to call Jesus a liar.
Hebrews 10:26-31 Is a passage to be carefully considered in this discussion.
Those who are born again know it. Those who are not well they will not know it. There is no spiritual knowledge until one is born again and the Holy Spirit abides within. 1 Cor 2:13-14

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#11
Ive got some questions about being born again. Im not sure it means what people say it means. Ya know how some will say they were saved and then tell ya the specific day that they were born again. That doesnt fit with scripture.

ROMANS 8 [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Scripture says you are saved by hope....well just read above scripture. Now if someone claims they are already saved then what does he hope for?

LAM.3 [24] The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.[25] The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.[26] IT IS GOOD THAT A MAN SHOULD BOTH HOPE AND QUIETLY WAIT FOR THE SALVATION OF THE LORD.

1THES.5 [7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.[8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the HOPE OF SALVATION.[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

What does it really mean to be born again according to scripture
We are saved from the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Thus being born again is a state whereby we are walking according to that which is above, ie. the Spirit of God as opposed to being fleshly and led by carnal desires. When we turn to God in broken repentance our spirit which was dead to God (due to rebellion) is brought back to life by the power of God.

We are born in the flesh in ignorance subject to our base passions. God calls us to lay down the service of those passions in exchange for service to Christ. Hence we no are to no longer be ruled by the lusts of the flesh, but rather the will of God. It is by the Spirit of God in us that we keep ourselves (endure temptation) thus ruling over the base passions.

There is salvation in the present as well as salvation to be hoped for.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#12
We are saved from the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Thus being born again is a state whereby we are walking according to that which is above, ie. the Spirit of God as opposed to being fleshly and led by carnal desires. When we turn to God in broken repentance our spirit which was dead to God (due to rebellion) is brought back to life by the power of God.

We are born in the flesh in ignorance subject to our base passions. God calls us to lay down the service of those passions in exchange for service to Christ. Hence we no are to no longer be ruled by the lusts of the flesh, but rather the will of God. It is by the Spirit of God in us that we keep ourselves (endure temptation) thus ruling over the base passions.

There is salvation in the present as well as salvation to be hoped for.
Continued from post #8

There is a guarantee of salvation in the present but only if we loyally remain in Christ. So sometimes we see that the scriptures speak in a way which sounds as though we have already attained. And that is where many get confused and by not stating it with complete accuracy of understanding unwittingly give those who desire it to come too easy a lie to comfort themselves with.

How that works: To us who remain faithful in Christ forsaking the lusts of our flesh rather than freely giving ourselves as slaves to serve them, God's word is so sure that our hope is as good as accomplished. Thus in speaking to such ones who have truly committed to Christ, the scriptures sometimes speak of it as though a done deal.

But even Paul said, Philippians 3:11-12 "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

1 Corinthians 9:24 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


As I said, the only reason the scriptures do seem to speak of it at times as a done deal is that is we truly are with our whole heart, soul (which includes our flesh), and mind, committed to the race for that incorruptible crown, then it is a done deal.
And that because we know God's word will never fail us, which then makes the thing we hope for as real to us as though it already belongs to us.

What is our helmet? 1 Thessalonians 5:8 "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."

Titus 1:1-2 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.."

Hebrews 3:6 "But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
 
May 5, 2013
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#13
I thought you were born again when you get baptised, which I have not been yet.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#14
To say any less would be to call Jesus a liar.
Hebrews 10:26-31 Is a passage to be carefully considered in this discussion.
Those who are born again know it. Those who are not well they will not know it. There is no spiritual knowledge until one is born again and the Holy Spirit abides within. 1 Cor 2:13-14

For the cause of Christ
Roger
agreed if we balance the heb. passage with 10:39.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#15
I thought you were born again when you get baptised, which I have not been yet.
That is but the first step as an expression of your commitment to endure with God as he chastises and corrects you by his spirit and his word so that you develop wholly to soundness in the womb of the flesh at which point you can be born away from that flesh and given as a child to the free woman in the heaven above whose children came to be more numerous than the one that labored.

This is spoken of as the following scriptures connected together: 1 Corinthians 15:1-10 paying attention particularly to verses 7 an 8, and Galatians 1:13-17 and Galatians 4:19-31
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#16
I thought you were born again when you get baptised, which I have not been yet.
Water? It is a rebirth of the spirit and is connected with Christ's death on Calvary's cross. John 3:10-14
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#17
To say any less would be to call Jesus a liar.
Hebrews 10:26-31 Is a passage to be carefully considered in this discussion.
Those who are born again know it. Those who are not well they will not know it. There is no spiritual knowledge until one is born again and the Holy Spirit abides within. 1 Cor 2:13-14

For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is an example of one who is arguing against that patient birth to Christ you mentioned when you quoted your OP citations:

ROMANS 8 [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

It is the flesh that desires it to be quick and easy.

You have noticed what God's spirit called you to notice, and now will you let others allow you to forget it?

Further more, speaking up for that truth will now gain you this: Galatians 4:29 "But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now."

That Holy Spirit abides working in them to get them to that hope if they be but patient and cooperate with it.
 
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Mar 15, 2013
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#18
This is an example of one who is arguing against that patient birth to Christ you mentioned when you quoted your OP citations:

ROMANS 8 [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

It is the flesh that desires it to be quick and easy.

You have noticed what God's spirit called you to notice, and now will you let others allow you to forget it?

Further more, speaking up for that truth will now gain you this: Galatians 4:29 "But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now."

That Holy Spirit abides working in them to get them to that hope if they be but patient and cooperate with it.
That is why it took so long for Paul to be separated to Christ until he was on that road to Damascus.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#19
Let's take a second here and ask ourselves why the flesh when they hear that it takes time and patience for the Holy Spirit to abide with them and work with them so that they can actually finish the race and successfully achieve salvation, lashes out at the thought.

Imagine you live and invest believing in a thing only to one day find out it is not true. How does it make you feel? we have all had such experiences in our lives to relate it to.

The ocean fisherman gets a huge fish on his line and battles with it for hours but somehow it gets loose from him at the last minute. It makes his flesh have to cry out due to his expectation being frustrated. His belief that the fish was as good as caught let him down.

That same frustration I tell you will be much lighter for those who here and now except that they have not yet finished their fight for salvation than it will be if they remain stubborn and have to find out at the revelation of Christ.

So though they may hate me for speaking the truth to them my love for God and for them demands that I must.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#20
Wall, I will break for a while for now so that we can see what other flood waters come rushing in.

Through this you are being taught to identify the colors of the chameleon.

Do not dog or hate the persons remember it is only their flesh that is rebelling. We all have that same fight.

We were once as they and they are every bit as valuable to God as we.