BORN AGAIN?

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Mar 15, 2013
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#41
We must demostrate ourselves in the flesh as Jesus has done; which He's spirit but He must show us how the flesh must behave. Since the laws that were made for the flesh has been fulfill and which also means that we aren't going to be judge by our flesh, but we will be judge by what's in our heart which is the spiritual soul. There's another book which tell us where the earth has came from and which it was from water, but this book shouldn't be read by people that doesn't understand the books that we are reading today. So water represent the birth of the earth andbaptizing with water is the symbolic gesture which that we had came from. But we must let our bodies to go through sufferring( by washing of the Blood) to strengthen (clean) our spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:13
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.

Matthew 4:7
Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

1 Thessalonians 2:4
On the contrary, we speak as those approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please people but God, who tests our hearts.


Luke 22:31
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.

1 peter
17 For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
That is right and that water always pictures the spoken word of God. That is why we sometimes hear it said that God spoke everything into existence.

Very good information. Thank you for sharing it. :)

If you would receive it, even the water of that flood was as God's spoken word of judgment upon a disobedient world. And that is the very sea we need to get across to salvation. Isa 57:11
 
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Jan 21, 2013
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#42
Being born again is something that occurs to everyone Christ died and rose in behalf of 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

3 Praised (honored, blessed) be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)! By His boundless mercy we have been born again to an ever-living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,AMP

3 May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ be blessed! On account of his vast mercy, he has given us new birth. You have been born anew into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.CEB
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#43
Being born again is something that occurs to everyone Christ died and rose in behalf of 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

3 Praised (honored, blessed) be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)! By His boundless mercy we have been born again to an ever-living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,AMP

3 May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ be blessed! On account of his vast mercy, he has given us new birth. You have been born anew into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.CEB
Amen, and in my post just prior to this I should have cited Isa. 57:11-22

The world perishes by a water of God's spoken judgment upon ungodliness [the clearing away of the filth of flesh], but we are not saved by that, we are saved through ["dia" as at 1 Peter 3:20 misleadingly translated as "by"] through that adverse judgment not perishing by it, and this is due to God's declared judgment that there be life in ["en"] the Ark which is Christ.
 
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Mar 15, 2013
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#44
Ah!!! But the catch there is that is speaking specifically of Jesus being formed in Mary's womb.

The prophet greater than Moses:

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Yes indeed: have a good day :)
In further help to what was said here above, I will show more how it is that was done by God inspiring the using of Jeremiah as formed to God in Jerusalem's womb as we see done at Jeremiah 1:5. (Note also you can find the comparison of Jerusalem herself being like that child neglected and abandoned in the wilderness with her umbilical cord yet attached. Ezekiel 16:4 "And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all." These pictures are many in the OT.)

One of the places many mistakenly uses such comparisons which are actually to Jerusalem's womb to support that false idea of being special in the womb of our natural birth mother is Galatians 1:15. They try to claim that is actually Paul's natural birth mother when in fact it is Paul's, and all those Jews back then, view of what the mother that fleshly city of Jerusalem was to them in their hearts. Psalms 137:6 "If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy."

Notice how many times in the Song of Solomon which is about the bride of Christ, his present true church, speaks, saying things like, Song of Songs 2:7 "I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, till he please." These are God's elect men and women who become Christ's bride, his true church.

The Old fleshly Jerusalem was a shadow of her and the Jews all at that time viewed themselves as being nurtured to God by the water of God's word of Law in her womb, as she was the keeper of God's law to Israel.

Proverbs 1:8 "My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother.." Jerusalem was as that source of wisdom, the dispenser of her husbands instructions through her law to her children.

So we see Paul speaks of his conversion on the road to Damascus, likening it as being born or separated away from that fleshly Jerusalem's womb: Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus
.

This compares to what Paul told the Corinthian church: 1 Corinthians 15:7 "After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

And we see how he viewed both that fleshly Jerusalem and after that fleshly woman did all the laboring for him to be born, his adoption here to the the Jerusalem above as a child of the free woman in the kingdom of heaven:

Galatians 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Also please consider:

When someone tells you that you are specially gifted to God in the womb of your natural birth mother, be wary of their flattery. And here is why:

I will share with the signs that reveal he is nothing more than flesh masquerading as inspired of God. First you must understand that as Paul spoke in 2 Cor 11:2-4, 13-15, that these men have a subtle mix of the truth and falsehood which they cannot help as they themselves have been deceived. Yet there are some that know and yet do it as if to mock God. And the portion which is falsehood is often revealed (though at times it may be more) in that it is aimed to flattery which appeals to another man's fleshly desire to believe that he is more special than he really is, so that he might then become blinded to see who he himself really is. And the Holy Spirit cannot work with us to correct the flaws of our flesh if we so conceal those flaws from ourselves by masking them as God's doing.

That is proof that he is not speaking through the holy inspired spirit of God, for it is based upon a foundation of deception. Let me now acquaint you with where and how that idea is derived by their twisting of the scriptures, or rather, the spirit of error twisting those scriptures to them.

They base this idea on the fact that God did choose certain ones from the womb as he did Isaac. And as God did Jacob over Esau. But it is a falsehood that God did so due to their being anything special about them in the womb of their natural birth mothers. Paul clearly tells us why God chose them and what Paul said, is the entire reason why. There is no more to it than this: Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.)"

God chose them from the womb so that they could not boast that God shows respect to men by virtue of their flesh. Thus Isaac was chosen where Abraham's true firstborn by Hagar (Sarah's maid servant which she encouraged Abraham to sleep with as she though she would have no children to carry on Abram's name) was not chosen. And even though Esau was the true firstborn God made it clear form the way the two were born that his choice would be Jacob. Not that there was anything special about them in the womb, but that God was showing as Paul said: Romans 9:15 "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

God knows that it is the flesh's tendency to get puffed up and see itself as better than everybody else. And God was careful then not to allow any flesh to be able to boast as though they were alive when in fact we all died with Adam when Adam sinned.

But you can see what such a man has told you is based upon wrong understanding of scripture and therefore he cannot be who he claims but is himself being deceived by his yielding his flesh to the desire to think more of himself than necessary, thus empowering Satan to deceive him. Satan is a master chameleon and he turns our own flesh into that same kind of deceptive chameleon if we are not wise to his designs and aware of what to shun as lusts of our flesh.

This can happen to any of us unless we wise up to it by the protective knowledge and understanding of that knowledge from God's Holy Inspired Word.
 
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Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#45
The reason I ask about this "born again" in John 3 is because Job seemed to ask the same question. Seems these 2 guys could be talkin bout the 1Cor.15 event in which we are all changed

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, says Job. Then will his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Couldn't this be the "born again" event. Jesus tells Nic he must be born again before entering the Kingdom. New bodys before entering the kingdom
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#46
The reason I ask about this "born again" in John 3 is because Job seemed to ask the same question. Seems these 2 guys could be talkin bout the 1Cor.15 event in which we are all changed

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, says Job. Then will his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Couldn't this be the "born again" event. Jesus tells Nic he must be born again before entering the Kingdom. New bodys before entering the kingdom
I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses teach that to be the case. And I agree but with a bit of a different view to it.

Where Jehovah's Witnesses teach it exactly as you describe, to be man's literal death and resurrection, I see it as being able to happen spiritually, before one meets with a literal physical death.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#47
I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses teach that to be the case. And I agree but with a bit of a different view to it.

Where Jehovah's Witnesses teach it exactly as you describe, to be man's literal death and resurrection, I see it as being able to happen spiritually, before one meets with a literal physical death.
So what do you think Job was speaking of?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, says Job. Then will his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Keeping in mind the timeframe Job gives. Till the heavens be no more
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#48
So what do you think Job was speaking of?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, says Job. Then will his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Keeping in mind the timeframe Job gives. Till the heavens be no more
Let us look closer and see.

Job was saying that he would prefer God let him die and conceal him in the grave rather than let him suffer that way: Job 14:12 "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 13 "O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!


But Job did not know for sure if God would do that: 14 "If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come."

Job was asking that of God. He was not telling God or us what the for sure case should or would be.

And if you look at what happened, Job never got to the point of physical death before God restored him to full health and restored blessings to him.

That is a spiritual foreshadow, rather than a literal one. It is a shadow that our spiritual restoration, like Jobs restoration, can be in this life, before we die.

There are other places there to see that: Job 33:28 "He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light."
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#49
I still believe it means what it says. The day of the Lord is pinpointed in Job and with a little lookin youll find the 1Cor.15 event happens during that time also. Job even speaks of his change to come at that time. Then he will live again...he will be born again
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#50
1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Peter1 is all about being born again. Its not something that happens during the life time of a believer. Thats plain to see.....

An inheritance
Revealed in the last time
End of your faith
Hope to the end
Brought at the revelation of Christ
Being born again

Sure does sound as if being born again does not happen till the return of Christ

 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#52
Born again of the Spirit is when you have a new heart that seeks after God and His ways and His will. when you have been broken of your pride and you have repented of your sins and turned away from the world and TO God and His Light and His upward calling. It when you have the Holy Spirit within your heart, leading and guiding you.

however the Bible also talks about the Hope ,the promise which refers to the resurrection when God's children are given NEW BODIES.

the verses that come to mind are these:

Romans 8
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? [SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

We have the firstfruits of the Spirit which allows us to call out Abba, Father but we will not complete the full adoption process until we are given the redemption of our bodies. Our spirit, heart and mind can be continously renewed in God's light but our bodies continue to die each day.

sorry if I repeat, I only read the OP and skimmed some of your other posts Wall, but just wanted to share my thoughts.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#53
Born again of the Spirit is when you have a new heart that seeks after God and His ways and His will. when you have been broken of your pride and you have repented of your sins and turned away from the world and TO God and His Light and His upward calling. It when you have the Holy Spirit within your heart, leading and guiding you.

however the Bible also talks about the Hope ,the promise which refers to the resurrection when God's children are given NEW BODIES.

the verses that come to mind are these:

Romans 8
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? [SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

We have the firstfruits of the Spirit which allows us to call out Abba, Father but we will not complete the full adoption process until we are given the redemption of our bodies. Our spirit, heart and mind can be continously renewed in God's light but our bodies continue to die each day.

sorry if I repeat, I only read the OP and skimmed some of your other posts Wall, but just wanted to share my thoughts.
I see what your saying Ariel but look at the wording in these 2 scriptures

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[6] That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

John 3 EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
1Cor.15 FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD

John 3 EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
1Cor.15 THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY

1COR.15
[42] So also is THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] AND AS WE HAVE BORNE THE IMAGE OF THE EARTHY, WE SHALL ALSO BEAR THE IMAGE OF THE HEAVENLY.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Well I guess im done looking into this. Thanks all for the input