Cain's Offering

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49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,103
96
48
#1
Genesis 4: 1-7 (KJV)

1) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6) And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this:

Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?

What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?

What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?

Do not see much to go on, unless it is explained later in scripture. Thanks in advance.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,754
1,044
113
#2
Genesis 4: 1-7 (KJV)

1) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6) And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this:

Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?

What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?

What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?

Do not see much to go on, unless it is explained later in scripture. Thanks in advance.
I would offer.

Faithless Cain (no God in his heart as a fool) understood by the things seen . When his brother Abel who walked by faith of Christ that worked in Abel brought the good news to Cain . Cain continued in his unbelief and to show it got rid of the misperceived competition of the pagan religions of the world .Out of sight out of mind.

God did not have respect unto Cain and to his offering because Cain a atheist walked by sight not believing the gospel that come by mixing faith the unseen eternal in that seen, the temporal

What God did mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"Was natural man is seprated from God and there fore does the will of the god of this world

What God meant when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him" is that in unbelief (no faith) would rule over him . Again doing the lying will of another.

It was more than just a coincident that Abel brought the fruit of his labor. Cain having no faith brought that which was not required as a fruit of his labor needed to represent redemption ...but rather a bloodless sacrifice.

It would appear the youngest got the most smelly job .Like David .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,266
5,680
113
#3
Genesis 4: 1-7 (KJV)

1) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6) And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this:

Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?

What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?

What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?

Do not see much to go on, unless it is explained later in scripture. Thanks in advance.
Have you checked some modern translations? 16th-century vocabulary can veil the clear meaning.
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,173
770
113
#4
Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?
The answer to this question is in Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.




49 said:
What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?
I have heard teaching on this verse which indicates that God told Cain a sin offering was at the door.




49 said:
What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?
If it is a sin offering, the sin offering is at the disposal of the offeror.

If it is sin, then sin is Cain's desire and Cain rules over sin.


I lean toward "sin offering" ...



 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,606
3,254
113
#5
Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this: Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?
God DISREGARDED Cain's offering because Cain disregarded God's requirement and chose to bring an offering based upon his own reasoning.
What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?
Here "sin" is a metonymy for the sin offering lying at the door -- a lamb without spot or blemish. This is similar to the Scripture which says that Christ was made "Sin" for us. He was th ultimate sin offering.

Abel understood -- through faith -- that when he made a sin offering, it represented the ultimate Lamb of God (Christ). But Cain believe that salvation was based upon his own efforts as represented by the offering he brought.
What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?
You have MISQUOTED that verse which says -- Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

What you have is the exact opposite of what is in Scripture. And what it means that the woman's primary desire would be to please her husband, while the husband was given authority (rule) over his own wife. This is consistent with New Testament teaching.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
7,070
767
113
#6
The answer to this question is in Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.





I have heard teaching on this verse which indicates that God told Cain a sin offering was at the door.





If it is a sin offering, the sin offering is at the disposal of the offeror.

If it is sin, then sin is Cain's desire and Cain rules over sin.


I lean toward "sin offering" ...
Exactly! Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. They both knew what kind of sacrifice pleases God.
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,173
770
113
#7
Here "sin" is a metonymy for the sin offering lying at the door -- a lamb without spot or blemish. This is similar to the Scripture which says that Christ was made "Sin" for us. He was th ultimate sin offering.
In agreement with your understanding that Christ was made sin offering for us. :cool:

... and I believe the concerning "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him" is Gen 4:7

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.



 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,754
1,044
113
#8
The answer to this question is in Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.





I have heard teaching on this verse which indicates that God told Cain a sin offering was at the door.





If it is a sin offering, the sin offering is at the disposal of the offeror.

If it is sin, then sin is Cain's desire and Cain rules over sin.


I lean toward "sin offering" ...
I would offer. It is sin and the father of lies (his desire) was ruling over the faith that did come by hearing believing God making the word of God without effect .

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Geneisis4: 7

We rule over His desire by the desire of the gospel .It draws us to the father not seen.

It would be like that of the Mathew 16 account where Peter was forgiven of Blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus .

Matthew 16:22-24 King James Version (KJV)Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Cain blasphemed the Holy Spirt not seen . He was not forgiven
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,103
96
48
#10
I would offer.

Faithless Cain (no God in his heart as a fool) understood by the things seen . When his brother Abel who walked by faith of Christ that worked in Abel brought the good news to Cain . Cain continued in his unbelief and to show it got rid of the misperceived competition of the pagan religions of the world .Out of sight out of mind.

God did not have respect unto Cain and to his offering because Cain a atheist walked by sight not believing the gospel that come by mixing faith the unseen eternal in that seen, the temporal

What God did mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"Was natural man is seprated from God and there fore does the will of the god of this world

What God meant when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him" is that in unbelief (no faith) would rule over him . Again doing the lying will of another.

It was more than just a coincident that Abel brought the fruit of his labor. Cain having no faith brought that which was not required as a fruit of his labor needed to represent redemption ...but rather a bloodless sacrifice.

It would appear the youngest got the most smelly job .Like David .
What God did mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"Was natural man is seprated from God and there fore does the will of the god of this world

What God did mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"Was natural man is seprated from God and there fore does the will of the god of this world

Have always wondered what his sin was, and why God did not accept his offering. Thank you.
Was very confused with verse 7. Much to think on.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
132
43
#11
Genesis 4: 1-7 (KJV)

1) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6) And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this:

Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?

What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?

What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?

Do not see much to go on, unless it is explained later in scripture. Thanks in advance.
Hi 49, as Dino246 said, a more modern translation would help facilitate one's understanding of the passage.

NIV Genesis 4:1-7 1Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man." 2Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4And Abel also brought an offering-fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. 6Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

I personally understand the passage to state that first, Cain's offering was not the first-fruits or quality, or of the right prescription from God i.e. it was an unsatisfactory or deficient offering to God, showing contempt. Whereas Abel chose the best that he had to offer. (as reneweddaybyday brought up Heb. 11:4, I couldn't agree more).
Secondly, God warned Cain that sin was crouching at his door, meaning due to his downcast face, God could tell what Cain had in mind i.e. take revenge on Abel.
Thirdly, due to God's perception of Cain's intent, he, in a just and fair manner, both warns him of the evil that is eagerly (desires to have you) knocking at his door, and gives him the means to resist i.e, assures him that it is within him to circumvent what he is about to do, that is, kill Abel.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,103
96
48
#12
Have you checked some modern translations? 16th-century vocabulary can veil the clear meaning.
Have not. My son in law suggested the same, and believe it may be time to read other versions of Scripture. Grew up in a church where the KJV was the final say so, so to speak. Thank you!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
7,070
767
113
#13
Hi 49, as Dino246 said, a more modern translation would help facilitate one's understanding of the passage.

NIV Genesis 4:1-7 1Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man." 2Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4And Abel also brought an offering-fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. 6Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

I personally understand the passage to state that first, Cain's offering was not the first-fruits or quality, or of the right prescription from God i.e. it was an unsatisfactory or deficient offering to God, showing contempt. Whereas Abel chose the best that he had to offer. (as reneweddaybyday brought up Heb. 11:4, I couldn't agree more).
Secondly, God warned Cain that sin was crouching at his door, meaning due to his downcast face, God could tell what Cain had in mind i.e. take revenge on Abel.
Thirdly, due to God's perception of Cain's intent, he, in a just and fair manner, both warns him of the evil that is knocking at his door, and gives him the means to resist i.e, assures him that it is within him to circumvent what he is about to do, that is, kill Abel.
You can’t see this in the KJV? Read it again.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,103
96
48
#14
The answer to this question is in Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.





I have heard teaching on this verse which indicates that God told Cain a sin offering was at the door.





If it is a sin offering, the sin offering is at the disposal of the offeror.

If it is sin, then sin is Cain's desire and Cain rules over sin.


I lean toward "sin offering" ...
Thank you. As mentioned, did not see much to go on, and guidance from the Holy Spirit and commentary from you all is needed.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
7,070
767
113
#15
Have not. My son in law suggested the same, and believe it may be time to read other versions of Scripture. Grew up in a church where the KJV was the final say so, so to speak. Thank you!
Don’t do it. Stick with the KJV. You know it’s not that difficult.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,103
96
48
#16
God DISREGARDED Cain's offering because Cain disregarded God's requirement and chose to bring an offering based upon his own reasoning.

Here "sin" is a metonymy for the sin offering lying at the door -- a lamb without spot or blemish. This is similar to the Scripture which says that Christ was made "Sin" for us. He was th ultimate sin offering.

Abel understood -- through faith -- that when he made a sin offering, it represented the ultimate Lamb of God (Christ). But Cain believe that salvation was based upon his own efforts as represented by the offering he brought.

You have MISQUOTED that verse which says -- Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

What you have is the exact opposite of what is in Scripture. And what it means that the woman's primary desire would be to please her husband, while the husband was given authority (rule) over his own wife. This is consistent with New Testament teaching.
My apologies; was just quoting what is written in Genesis 4:7. Not my intention to misquote scripture at all.
Thank you much :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,606
3,254
113
#17
... and I believe the concerning "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him" is Gen 4:7

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Correct. Missed that verse. My mistake.

So how should it be interpreted? The only interpretation according to the Gospel is that Cain (and all humans) are being told that the sin nature desires to dominate you, but you should have dominion over it. But only those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit have this power.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
2,344
458
83
#18
Genesis 4: 1-7 (KJV)

1) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6) And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this:

Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?

What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?

What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?

Do not see much to go on, unless it is explained later in scripture. Thanks in advance.
I will address your first question. Genesis 4:7 holds the key

Genesis 4:7 says, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

When we read Hebrews 11 account, we are left with concluding that Abel had faith in God while Cain did not. But faith in the context of Genesis 4:7 merely means doing well. It is believing God by bringing the correct sacrifice as God instructed.

Cain had no valid reason for growing very angry. God had rejected his bloodless sacrifice, true, but God had already told him what to bring. Cain deliberately brought what he wanted. Sinful Cain had no justification for frowning, feeling mistreated and acting disappointed. Remember, like his brother Abel, he could have done what God commanded. Cain could have come to God, God’s way, and God would have accepted him as He had Abel.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,103
96
48
#19
The answer to this question is in Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.





I have heard teaching on this verse which indicates that God told Cain a sin offering was at the door.





If it is a sin offering, the sin offering is at the disposal of the offeror.

If it is sin, then sin is Cain's desire and Cain rules over sin.


I lean toward "sin offering" ...
by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
Much like when Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him as righteousness?
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
1,103
96
48
#20
I would offer. It is sin and the father of lies (his desire) was ruling over the faith that did come by hearing believing God making the word of God without effect .

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Geneisis4: 7

We rule over His desire by the desire of the gospel .It draws us to the father not seen.

It would be like that of the Mathew 16 account where Peter was forgiven of Blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus .

Matthew 16:22-24 King James Version (KJV)Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Cain blasphemed the Holy Spirt not seen . He was not forgiven
That makes sense! Thanks!