Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[Duskey]

Scripture doesn't seem to be helping you people out. I've posted plenty of it.

I suggested you read Scripture to learn and you disagreed. I quoted Scripture verbatim and you laughed. Then you say Scripture isn’t helping you people out.

I live one mile from a comedy club but have no need of going there when I can stay home and read your hysterics.

 

[throughfaith]

Are you all Universalists is that why you are having such a hard time with scripture?

See this is your Calvinist glasses . Why do you say ' universalism ' . The death of christ saves no one. Thats the biggest elephant in the room with Calvinsm. You think the Death of Christ saves .Which is a denial of the resurection .If you believe your salvation was secured on the cross .

 

[Duskey]

Are you all Universalists is that why you are having such a hard time with scripture?

Not at all. We simply understand the free gift of God’s grace is available to everyone but sadly many people refuse to accept His grace.

 

[jackrosie]

There's 4-5 of you that really need to try and understand this scripture.

Romans 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin

There's 4-5 of you that really need to try and understand this scripture.

Romans 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


There is no condemnation, because of sinning against God and the law given by Moses, ONLY to those who are in Christ Jesus. That means BELIEVERS. That means ONLY those who have come to Christ Jesus and have received Rest and Salvation.

It is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that has made us free from the Law of sin and death.

A person HAS to be IN CHRIST in order to RECEIVE the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

A person HAS to come to Christ in order to have their sins taken away (ATONED) and to be justified and to no longer be under condemnation.

Hi Granpa........would you agree that walking in the Spirit....is growing in Christ?....which takes time?.....we are His child and under his protection....He set us free from sin.......also Love.....no one can Love us,or come anywhere near....God’s Love!........there is nothing like it on the planet......

The Holy Spirit teaches us to walk with him,side by side.....after all it is a personal journey we have with him...He teaches us everything.....?

 

[EleventhHour]

Not at all. We simply understand the free gift of God’s grace is available to everyone but sadly many people refuse to accept His grace.

Therein lies the problem ... "irresistible grace" people cannot refuse grace according to Calvinogma .. this new term is very helpful makes things more succinct.

 

[Duskey]

Therein lies the problem ... "irresistible grace" people cannot refuse grace according to Calvinogma .. this new term is very helpful makes things more succinct.

So much for the rich, young ruler.

 

[EleventhHour]

Which part did you not understand?

Irresistible grace is only applied to believers.

Seems pretty simple. Is it complicated?

Can you then tell me is "resistible grace" applied to the non-believers or is grace not extended to them at all?

 

[garee]

Nice try at a diversionary calvinogma tactic....you will have to grow up, eat your wheaties and get up before the chickens to catch me in some rigmarole verbiage trap........

My bible says God only chastens SONS WHOM HE RECEIVES....yet LOVED THE WHOLE KOSMOS and PAID FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD

Nice try pal...no ceeeegarr!

That rings a bell.

Calvin is dead. He is not the author and finisher of our new faith . . .that works in us.

Calvin is not our confidence of someone who had begun the good work of salvation in us and promises to finish his work of faith as a labor of his love to the end.

Philippians 1:5-6 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The gospel is the breakfast of Champions not Wheaties . Cheerios is the go go power. not chicken feed. . cluck clock cockadoodle do LOL

As always the Faithfull Creator must do the "first work". . our first love hearing and believing. As many that can receive them to to them he gave the power to to move to do His will. Those in whom he has not given power cannot come . They taste it but fall away. Trusting their own corrupted flesh (dead faith) .

They have no power working in them, with them to both will and do the good pleasure of God not seen. Some murmur and demand some sort of pride as self-edification.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[garee]

Can you then tell me is "resistible grace" applied to the non-believers or is grace not extended to them at all?

Its offered to as many that are given power to beleive and therefore receive it. Some hear taste and having no power coming from dead works( no faith) .They fall away Crucify him over and over as if one demonstration fell short of the glory of God

Two directions . towards and from .Inspired from above or earthly inspired of here?

Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Better things accompany salvation. A faith coming from God. . towards us in us . . Not dead work towards him. No power in the corrupted flesh of mankind.

Hebrews 6:9-10 King James Version (KJV) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Him towards us giving us His power to praise towards his name .

 

[EleventhHour]

Calvin is dead. He is not the author and finisher of our new faith . . .that works in us.

Amen to that!!

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1 John 4:4

 

[EleventhHour]

A person HAS to come to Christ in order to have their sins taken away (ATONED) and to be justified and to no longer be under condemnation.

So you are agree then the person "comes to Christ" and not "determined" to Christ?

 

[garee]

So you are agree then the person "comes to Christ" and not "determined" to Christ?

If we do not hear his voice that turns us how could we find him or seek after him so that he could give us His understanding of faith that works in us.?

Romans3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Grandpa]

Point 1 ) Everyone has had their sins paid for in full / dealt with ect

Point 1 contradicts several scriptures.

Did you even read Romans 8:1-4??

What is it saying to you?

 

[throughfaith]

If we do not hear his voice that turns us how could we find him or seek after him so that he could give us His understanding of faith that works in us.?

Romans3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Audibly? I'm sure they actually heared Jesus voice in John

If we do not hear his voice that turns us how could we find him or seek after him so that he could give us His understanding of faith that works in us.?

Romans3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

If we do not hear his voice that turns us how could we find him or seek after him so that he could give us His understanding of faith that works in us.?

Romans3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

d
does it say : there's none that can positively respond to the Gospel when heard ?

 

[Grandpa]

So you are agree then the person "comes to Christ" and not "determined" to Christ?

There is no difference in your two "points". Those who come to Christ have been drawn by God.

John 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[Grandpa]

I suggested you read Scripture to learn and you disagreed. I quoted Scripture verbatim and you laughed. Then you say Scripture isn’t helping you people out.

I live one mile from a comedy club but have no need of going there when I can stay home and read your hysterics.

Right...

You just suggested that EVERYONE is justified automatically 2000 yrs ago because a scripture says "all".

That is downright funny.

 

[throughfaith]

Point 1 contradicts several scriptures.

Did you even read Romans 8:1-4??

What is it saying to you?

If a person does not believe on Jesus they go to hell. For a believer there is no condemnation. People are or won't be in hell paying for their sins . No verse says this . they are in Hell because they refused to believe the truth so as to be saved ..condemned for this .

 

[Grandpa]

See this is your Calvinist glasses . Why do you say ' universalism ' . The death of christ saves no one. Thats the biggest elephant in the room with Calvinsm. You think the Death of Christ saves .Which is a denial of the resurection .If you believe your salvation was secured on the cross .

I suggest you study Atonement. Study the phrase "Save them from their sins".

Maybe something will eventually click.

 

[Grandpa]

Not at all. We simply understand the free gift of God’s grace is available to everyone but sadly many people refuse to accept His grace.

You APPLY the Atonement to ALL men through your false philosophy.

The free gift of Gods grace IS available to everyone, from our point of view. We don't know who is the elect and who is not.

Theologically, the reason why some refuse is because they are not chosen.

 

[throughfaith]

There is no difference in your two "points". Those who come to Christ have been drawn by God.

John 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

yes they CAN come . do you see that ? Those old testament followers of Jehovah were learning of the Father ..They accepted what Jesus was saying. The sheep , which are Jews and not Americans of British folks in 2020 .
Then Jesus says He will draw all men .
there's no verses after the cross saying the Father or the Holy Spirit is drawing anyone .