Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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PennEd said:
I’ve seen this movie before. So twist away!


“So again, I’m sorry for saying that. I have truly tried to get people to see that neither side compromises the Gospel unto Salvation, and neither side, ALTHOUGH THEY THINK THEY DO, have this incredibly difficult issue exactly right.

But we shouldn’t be casting dispersions on one another because both sides believe in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
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It must be another case of not reading fully what the person said but instead react prematurely and type out a response in unfamiliarity and haste? :p
 
PennEd

PennEd

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preacher4truth said:
I respect your plea, but disagree that there would be any validity to free will gospel conversion. John 1:13 flat out denies mans will having anything to do with conversion. Also John 6:63.
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I don’t remember saying anything about free will Gospel.


You know, my son came across some hard core Calvinists at his school. These guys were actually only interested in finding other elect.

Don’t you think we should be preaching the Gospel to every person?
 
NOV25

NOV25

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oyster67 said:
Someone has obviously digested lots of bologna. Perhaps time could have been better spent reading and studying the Word. Start at John 3.
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I do have a hunger for the things of God since my John 3 experience, so much so it would seem I know more about what you believe than you do 🥱
 
Magenta

Magenta

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PennEd said:
So riddle me this. God knows the end from the beginning and every person that is His Child.

What’s the difference? The sin of the Amorite is not yet complete.
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The difference is, omniscience does not equate to making people specifically
for one end or another, which in essence removes the element of choice.

Jesus is drawing all men to Himself.
 
NOV25

NOV25

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NOV25 said:
Can one of y’all tell me how you deal with the issue of free will doctrines being labeled heresy throughout history, as well as the fact that all major denominations have clearly confessed adherence to the doctrine of election in their confessions?
Not stirring the pot here, I’m sincerely asking.
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Repost
 
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EleventhHour

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NOV25 said:
I do have a hunger for the things of God since my John 3 experience, so much so it would seem I know more about what you believe than you do 🥱
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Of course... that goes without saying really .. we have been told how theologically inept we are. :rolleyes:
 
oyster67

oyster67

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PennEd said:
So riddle me this. God knows the end from the beginning and every person that is His Child.
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This is not a riddle for me. Is it a riddle for you? God's omniscience does not exclude or prevent free will in any way.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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PennEd said:
I don’t remember saying anything about free will Gospel.


You know, my son came across some hard core Calvinists at his school. These guys were actually only interested in finding other elect.

Don’t you think we should be preaching the Gospel to every person?
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You mentioned predestination and free will and that has everything to do with gospel conversion. That's what this has been about so not sure what you're after? We have been talking in the context of the gospel this entire time.

I don't know why you're seemingly likening me to the Calvinists your son ran into, nor how you've arrived at whether or not I believe we are to preach the gospel to everyone, or if I believe in doing so. How exactly did these Calvinists know who the elect are? Sounds a bit outlandish to me.

I've always believed we do not know who the elect are, but God does, and that we are to preach to everyone, using 2 Timothy 2:8-10 as my text.

Not sure how I got lumped into your scenario above, I can't see anything I stated that leads to such an illustration. Seems non sequitur to me.

My point is man is not saved via his will so I don't see free will as valid biblically.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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If the element of choice is removed, why are any held responsible for the choice/s they make?

If the unregenerated are specifically made not to choose God, why would He then punish
them forever after for failing to make a choice that was never given to them in the first place?

We get mocked for posing this question :geek:

But truly, such a position as "no choice" makes a mockery of God's mercy, justice, and love.
 
NOV25

NOV25

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Magenta said:
If the element of choice is removed, why are any held responsible for the choice/s they make?

If the unregenerated are specifically made not to choose God, why would He then punish
them forever after for failing to make a choice that was never given to them in the first place?

We get mocked for posing this question :geek:

But truly, such a position as "no choice" makes a mockery of God's mercy, justice, and love.
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This is how Paul answered your very question: What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 
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EleventhHour

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preacher4truth said:
My point is man is not saved via his will so I don't see free will as valid biblically.
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My point is no one states they wills themselves into salvation. That would be like saying we will ourselves to fly.

How about you represent the not Calvinist view correctly?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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NOV25 said:
This is how Paul answered your very question: What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
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Basing doctrine on a question... God ordained from before the foundation of the world that those who believe and have faith in the shed righteous blood of His Son would not suffer the second death. God is merciful to all, but in the final analysis, it does come down to whether or not we accept what God offers us. Jesus is drawing all men to Himself. Pride is the culprit/obstacle, right from the get-go in Eden.
 
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EleventhHour

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NOV25 said:
This is how Paul answered your very question: What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
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You know I could take the time and effort to show why this does not support the question.
We all know this is your go to verse.
 
NOV25

NOV25

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Magenta said:
If the element of choice is removed, why are any held responsible for the choice/s they make?

If the unregenerated are specifically made not to choose God, why would He then punish
them forever after for failing to make a choice that was never given to them in the first place?

We get mocked for posing this question :geek:

But truly, such a position as "no choice" makes a mockery of God's mercy, justice, and love.
Click to expand...
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
 
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EleventhHour

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Magenta said:
If the element of choice is removed, why are any held responsible for the choice/s they make?

If the unregenerated are specifically made not to choose God, why would He then punish
them forever after for failing to make a choice that was never given to them in the first place?

We get mocked for posing this question :geek:

But truly, such a position as "no choice" makes a mockery of God's mercy, justice, and love.
Click to expand...
Do you kinda feel like you are talking to a





right about now?
 
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