Calvinists are preaching a false message .

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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Hi throughfaith,

Thanks for the meaning of ordained. I am sure we are all aware of what the word means. However, we are discussing who does the ordaining. Scripture is very clear it is the Lord God.

As I previously stated:

It is God that is being referred to.. You can't ordain yourself.. or in English people now understand:

New International Version
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.


It is God doing the appointing. The Lord.

You have both here - God appointing and the human response is to believe.
Notice the Jews ' themselves ' CHOOSE not to believe..They Judge THEMSELVES . The Gentiles two verses later ..CHOOSE THEMSEVES to JUDGE THEMSELVES that they gladly recieve the word with Joy, THEMSELVES believing the word . Thats the whole context of Acts 13 ..Acts 13 actually refutes calvinism .
46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge YOURSELVES UNWORTHY of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Contrast.
48¶And when the Gentiles heard this, THEY WERE GLAD , and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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God is not mentioned. Your assuming without justification.

Hi throughfaith,


If we to take your logic you would be saying the gentiles appointed themselves for eternal life, and because they appointed themselves they then believed.

[QUOTE="throughfaith, Notice who is ordaining ? Does it say ' God ' anywhere? ..Why would you believe its God when it doesn't say God did anything here ? THEY ORDAINED THEMSELVES to believe . THEMSELVES ..as that is what it SAYS !! .[/QUOTE]



Acts 13:48

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.


It does not say all who appointed themselves. But scripture over and over again tells us that God is the one who appoints.


1 Thess 5:9

For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.


It is God doing the appointing. The Lord. and in relation you have the two sides of the coin.

You have both here - God appointing and the human response is to believe.


Thoroughly biblical. You have to take what ALL of the bible says. That's how we end up with cults cherry picking verses and making it fit their theology.

I'm saddened to say this but you do cherry pick and read your theology into that verse. Maybe that's why you have a dim view of scripture...??? Maybe that's why you believe its not all speaking TO you?
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the WORD OF GOD should first have been SPOKEN to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48¶And when the Gentiles HEARD this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

49¶And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Could you highlight where it SAYS God ordained them please ?
Romans 9 (New King James Version)

22What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

All the glory of God's chosen humanity's salvation belongs to, and only to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You seem to be a troll here sir?

Do you honestly belief (have that kind of worldly Satanic humanistic faith, that was not received as a gift from God, as His merciful salvation in His righteousness?) that it is not God that has the authority over eternal life and eternal damnation, and that it is not God that appoints or ordains His chosen humanity to His salvation of eternal life?

Acts 13 (New King James Version)

Blessing and Conflict at Antioch

48Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Who do you say appoints or ordains humans to eternal life or eternal damnation?

Genesis 3 (New King James Version)

4Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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' Died ....to....save ' Anywhere ? Yes he died for our sins and not our sins only ,but the sins of the whole world. This is not ' died to save ' .No one was saved when he did this .

That's interesting... of course they were saved WHEN he did this.

And it saved you too.


Matthew 20:28

Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”


Unless you think you are not one of the many? It's been done my friend.

God Appoints and we respond in believing just as Luke tells us.

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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All of God's chosen was predetermined by God's plan of salvation of chosen humanity, to be handed their gift of their measure of faith during their lifetimes, to be drawn by the Father through the working of the Holy Spirit and by the price paid by the Son, and to be saved by the gift of the righteous God's merciful salvation, before God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit laid the foundations of the world.


John 12:31-32 :)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Hi throughfaith,


If we to take your logic you would be saying the gentiles appointed themselves for eternal life, and because they appointed themselves they then believed.

[QUOTE="throughfaith, Notice who is ordaining ? Does it say ' God ' anywhere? ..Why would you believe its God when it doesn't say God did anything here ? THEY ORDAINED THEMSELVES to believe . THEMSELVES ..as that is what it SAYS !! .


Acts 13:48

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.


It does not say all who appointed themselves. But scripture over and over again tells us that God is the one who appoints.


1 Thess 5:9

For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.


It is God doing the appointing. The Lord. and in relation you have the two sides of the coin.

You have both here - God appointing and the human response is to believe.


Thoroughly biblical. You have to take what ALL of the bible says. That's how we end up with cults cherry picking verses and making it fit their theology.

Which I'm saddened to say this but you do cherry pick and read your theology into that verse. Maybe that's why you have a dim view of scripture...???[/QUOTE]
I thought just as much . What your doing is taking your belief about ' ordained ' and forcing into Acts 13. You don't let the verses themselves stand. You don't believe what it ' says ' . Your reading into the text your presupposition . If the verses don't say God did something why do you believe it ? 1 thes 5.9 ACTUALLY does say God. Do you see how easy this is ? The Authors actually were able to say the words ' God' and HIM doing something in one sentence. Isn't the bible amazing ? That we can trust what it SAYS and not add what we believe onto the text ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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That's interesting... of course they were saved WHEN he did this.

And it saved you too.


Matthew 20:28

Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”


Unless you think you are not one of the many? It's been done my friend.

God Appoints and we respond in believing just as Luke tells us.

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
You were saved 2000 years ago ? seriously?
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Agreed. It is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that draws us to God, it is not we ourselves that can draw ourselves, and ordain ourselves, or appoint ourselves to eternal life with God....
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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That's interesting... of course they were saved WHEN he did this.

And it saved you too.


Matthew 20:28

Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”


Unless you think you are not one of the many? It's been done my friend.

God Appoints and we respond in believing just as Luke tells us.

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Let's look at a proper translation .
48¶And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained by God to eternal life believed. Erm no !

48¶And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


" oo oo but God ordains everything, I have a doctrine that teaches this, so I'll assume that is what Acts 13 must mean "
No , read the whole chapter .
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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48
Acts 13:48


Which I'm saddened to say this but you do cherry pick and read your theology into that verse. Maybe that's why you have a dim view of scripture...???
I thought just as much . What your doing is taking your belief about ' ordained ' and forcing into Acts 13. You don't let the verses themselves stand. You don't believe what it ' says ' . Your reading into the text your presupposition . If the verses don't say God did something why do you believe it ? 1 thes 5.9 ACTUALLY does say God. Do you see how easy this is ? The Authors actually were able to say the words ' God' and HIM doing something in one sentence. Isn't the bible amazing ? That we can trust what it SAYS and not add what we believe onto the text ?[/QUOTE]


Hi throughfaith,

yes it is my belief that God ordains.. That's not just a reformed perspective all Christians believe that. And especially in the Acts text. It so obvious that a child could tell you who is appointing.. It is God.

Unlike you I regard all of Scripture God's word to me and to the church. Scripture interprets scripture. So yes God Ordains.


How you can believe that you ordain yourself to eternal life and then believe it astounds me.. And it is certainly not from scripture. I believe you to be quite unstable. So with that have a good night my friend.

And may God Bless you.
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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You were saved 2000 years ago ? seriously?
All of God's past, present and future chosen humanity's salvation was sealed at Christ Yeshua's blood offering for our sins, the price for our merciful salvation before a righteous God, was paid in full, roughly in 33 AC when Christ Yeshua was crucified at Calvary, in accordance with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit's renewed covenant of salvation with fallen mankind. Christ Yeshua was the perfect, innocent, sinless blood sacrificial offering for God's chosen humanity's sins. Christ Yeshua was also the first to overcome death, and unlocked the gates of hades for the souls that went to Paradise God's Heaven at the day of Christ Yeshua's crucifixion. The souls of these believers in heaven, will be resurrected one day into glorified bodies here on earth, to be raptured together with the transformed glorified bodies of those still alive, to meet Christ Yeshua in the clouds at His second coming.

Hebrews 8 (New King James Version)

A New Covenant
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Let's look at a proper translation .
48¶And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained by God to eternal life believed. Erm no !

48¶And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


" oo oo but God ordains everything, I have a doctrine that teaches this, so I'll assume that is what Acts 13 must mean "
No , read the whole chapter .
So if you say it is not God, who does your satanic humanistic faith says ordains everything "throughMYfaith"?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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I thought just as much . What your doing is taking your belief about ' ordained ' and forcing into Acts 13. You don't let the verses themselves stand. You don't believe what it ' says ' . Your reading into the text your presupposition . If the verses don't say God did something why do you believe it ? 1 thes 5.9 ACTUALLY does say God. Do you see how easy this is ? The Authors actually were able to say the words ' God' and HIM doing something in one sentence. Isn't the bible amazing ? That we can trust what it SAYS and not add what we believe onto the text ?

Hi throughfaith,

yes it is my belief that God ordains.. That's not just a reformed perspective all Christians believe that. And especially in the Acts text. It so obvious that a child could tell you who is appointing.. It is God.

Unlike you I regard all of Scripture God's word to me and to the church. Scripture interprets scripture. So yes God Ordains.


How you can believe that you ordain yourself to eternal life and then believe it astounds me.. And it is certainly not from scripture. I believe you to be quite unstable. So with that have a good night my friend.

And may God Bless you.[/QUOTE]
I literally showed you what ' Tasso ' means in that verse. You believe God is doing something even though it doesn't say . This is textbook Eisegesis
Which calvinism is famous for.
Sometimes the people im directly discussing to about the world view Calvinism, usually don't change their views . The paradigm is captivating . But maybe those following along may be helped out of it . Thats my prayer .
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Hi throughfaith,

yes it is my belief that God ordains.. That's not just a reformed perspective all Christians believe that. And especially in the Acts text. It so obvious that a child could tell you who is appointing.. It is God.

Unlike you I regard all of Scripture God's word to me and to the church. Scripture interprets scripture. So yes God Ordains.


How you can believe that you ordain yourself to eternal life and then believe it astounds me.. And it is certainly not from scripture. I believe you to be quite unstable. So with that have a good night my friend.

And may God Bless you.

Are you talking to yourself now as well "throughMYfaith" troll? Me, myself and only I - not all glory to God?
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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How about from before the foundation of the world? Is that not in Scripture?

On another note, there is no need to hammer way at Calvinism.
Psst. He does not like the word "before" in that context, maybe for the sake of the weak only say "from", since it does not change anything on a human time scale anyhow, since only God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit was there from before the foundation of heaven and earth, when heaven and earth was created in the beginning, and apparently according to "throughMYfaith's" way of translating God's word, God was limited to only plan salvation of his planned humankind together with heaven and earth's creation and God could not plan salvation before God started creation. So for his peace of mind's sake rather maybe say, as he would like it to be translated:

How about from before the foundation of the world? Is that not in Scripture?

On another note, there is no need to hammer way at Calvinism.
 

throughfaith

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How about from before the foundation of the world? Is that not in Scripture?

On another note, there is no need to hammer way at Calvinism.
Welcome to calvinistic theology ,that has people saved before they exist, before sin enters the world, before Jesus comes , Before the cross, before the resurrection..and on and on ... saved outside the resurrection , who,d have thought that would ever take hold? And BTW check which thread your on ?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I thought just as much . What your doing is taking your belief about ' ordained ' and forcing into Acts 13. You don't let the verses themselves stand. You don't believe what it ' says ' . Your reading into the text your presupposition . If the verses don't say God did something why do you believe it ? 1 thes 5.9 ACTUALLY does say God. Do you see how easy this is ? The Authors actually were able to say the words ' God' and HIM doing something in one sentence. Isn't the bible amazing ? That we can trust what it SAYS and not add what we believe onto the text ?
Not only that, but they are two distinct words:

--1Th5:9 has "G5087 - etheto / tithémi " ['God' doing this, per this verse]

--Acts 13:48 has "G5021 - tassō " [middle or passive voice... with context determining]
 

throughfaith

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Not only that, but they are two distinct words:

--1Th5:9 has "G5087 - etheto / tithémi " ['God' doing this, per this verse]

--Acts 13:48 has "G5021 - tassō " [middle or passive voice... with context determining]
Agreed 👍 ' Context ' that lost art lol .
 

TheDivineWatermark

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How about from before the foundation of the world? Is that not in Scripture?
The words "from [apo]" and "before [pro]" are not both used in the same sentence, as you have here, (where "the foundation of the word" is being spoken of); each are used in DISTINCT *contexts* referring to specifically DISTINCT things (and persons).

So, no... that is not "Scripture" AS YOU HAVE written it, above ^ . We should go with what Scripture says (in each case). They are distinct.