Can we pray Mary?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 9, 2017
133
9
18
#41
In regarding to the mediator, the scriptures is clear as to who our only mediator is in 1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

There are no priest, saints nor pope mediators
Catholics also beleive that Jesus Christ is our mediator between us and God the Father. Here is what it says in the Catechism of the Catholic Church,
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
 
Jul 9, 2017
133
9
18
#42
1 Timothy 2:5 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Amen. Catholics believe this. Here is what the Catechism of the Church says,
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
 
Jul 9, 2017
133
9
18
#43
Magenta wrote,

The RCC does much to exalt and venerate and elevate Mary while Jesus contradicted the woman who tried to say Mary was blessed for having given birth to and nursed Him.
First you have to look at the context in which this was said. Second, if Our Lord tried to dishonor her, then would He not be breaking the Commandment of "Honor thy father and mother"?

The RCC promotes Mary as sinless and virginal all her life while it would have been a sin for her to withhold marital relations from her husband.
Why would it be a sin?

Not to mention the fact that two of Jesus' brothers have books in the Bible, plus other brothers and sisters are mentioned as well, which Catholic apologists try to cover up by saying they were the cousins of Jesus as if there is no word for cousin when there is.
But those other "brothers and sisters" are clarified by other Scripture passages.
Did Jesus have "blood" brothers and sisters? - Catholic Straight Answers
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#44
Amen. Catholics believe this. Here is what the Catechism of the Church says,
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
i only believe what the bible says

i fall under no denomination


please point to any verse in Gods word that says we should pray TO the dead


im not above reproof

or all knowing

but i have read Gods word


more than once

and continue in it

if you read the 4 verses i posted so far in this thread alone


id say its clear you shouldnt




(if i sound rude... im sorry)
 
Jul 9, 2017
133
9
18
#45
NoNameMcgee wrote,

i only believe what the bible says
I believe what the Scriptures say also.

i fall under no denomination
Me either.

please point to any verse in Gods word that says we should pray TO the dead

  • Rom 15:30 – join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
  • Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 – pray for us
  • 2Thess 1:11 – we always pray for you
  • 2Thess 3:1 – finally, brothers, pray for us
  • Eph 6:18-19 – making supplication for all the saints & for me
  • Tob 12:12 – angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
  • Ps 148 – David calls upon angels
  • Zech 1:12 – angel intercedes for Jerusalem
  • Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 – men in heaven are as the angels
  • Rev 5:8 – those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
  • Mk 12:26-27 – he is God of the living, not of the dead
  • Mk 9:4 – Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
  • Lk 9:31 – Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
  • Rev 6:9-11 – martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
  • Heb 12:1 – we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
  • Lk 16:19-30 – departed rich man intercedes for brothers
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#46
Do you really have to ask? What better way to keep people hooked on something, than to have these thing springing up.
Willie,

They say there have been thousands of healings at Lourdes in France.

I'm not sure about that, BUT, the CC HAS confirmed 65 miracles. Authenticated, guaranteed miracles.

I also have often wondered why Protestants don't see Mary.

Maybe there's just so much we don't know.
We read our bible and can only know what is written there, but John himself says that everything could not be written down.
There's a lot we don't know and don't understand.

I'm not willing to shrug anything off.

I know persons, personally, that have been to Medjugorie and they come back saved.
Don't understand it. I've never been there.
I've been to Lourdes. Just a few years ago.
It brought tears to my eyes to see so many believers all together in one place.
(at the evening procession with each person holding a candle)

Just some thoughts...
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#47
NoNameMcgee wrote,



I believe what the Scriptures say also.



Me either.




  • Rom 15:30 – join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
  • Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 – pray for us
  • 2Thess 1:11 – we always pray for you
  • 2Thess 3:1 – finally, brothers, pray for us
  • Eph 6:18-19 – making supplication for all the saints & for me
  • Tob 12:12 – angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
  • Ps 148 – David calls upon angels
  • Zech 1:12 – angel intercedes for Jerusalem
  • Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 – men in heaven are as the angels
  • Rev 5:8 – those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
  • Mk 12:26-27 – he is God of the living, not of the dead
  • Mk 9:4 – Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
  • Lk 9:31 – Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
  • Rev 6:9-11 – martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
  • Heb 12:1 – we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
  • Lk 16:19-30 – departed rich man intercedes for brothers
please....
dont take away from the word


or remove the context

would you like to talk about each and every one of these verses in relation to praying TO a dead human?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,248
25,719
113
#48
First you have to look at the context in which this was said. Second, if Our Lord tried to dishonor her, then would He not be breaking the Commandment of "Honor thy father and mother"?
Who said He tried to dishonor her? I said He contradicted a woman who claimed Mary was blessed for having borne and nursed Jesus. Did you read that? Why do you attempt to turn it into something else? Ooohhhh, it is a Catholic habit, I get it....

Why would it be a sin?
Neither husband nor wife is to withhold themselves from the other. Have you not read the Bible?

But those other "brothers and sisters" are clarified by other Scripture passages.
Sorry, I am not interested in Catholic apologist lies to rationalize their heresies. Jesus had brothers and sisters and the RCC denies it. Jesus did not elevate Mary but the RCC does. Jesus told us to pray to the Father while the RCC tells you to pray to Mary. The RCC forces Catholics to believe that Mary never died and that she was bodily assumed to heaven and worse that she was born without the stain of original sin from Adam so that Jesus could be born sinless, and there is absolutely NOTHING in all of Scripture to justify any of those beliefs despite your denial of the FACTS.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#49
Cyberman,
I owe you a reply but I CAN'T REMEMBER THE THREAD!

Can't think of anything specific I wanted to say.

I'm sorry. I hate how we don't get personal alerts.

Sorry.
Fran
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#50
I know that she was being facetious but why would it be wrong to ask a brother in Christ, in Heaven, to pray for you? Do we not all belong to the One Body of Christ? Does it matter if we are in Heaven or on Earth?

Why pray to anyone but God? He is our source. Christ became our high priest so we no longer have to go through anyone else. We can go to the throne room of God,why pray to anyone else but the One who hears and answers prayer?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#51
NoNameMcgee wrote,



I believe what the Scriptures say also.



Me either.




  • Rom 15:30 – join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
    in context this is the living praying together TO God
  • Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 – pray for us
    the living praying TO God
  • 2Thess 1:11 – we always pray for you
    the living praying TO God
  • 2Thess 3:1 – finally, brothers, pray for us
    The living praying TO God
  • Eph 6:18-19 – making supplication for all the saints & for me
    talking about prayer in relation to the full armor of God not TO the dead
  • Tob 12:12 – angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
    nothing at all to do with praying TO the dead
  • Ps 148 – David calls upon angels
    nothing at all to do with praying TO the dead
  • Zech 1:12 – angel intercedes for Jerusalem
    nothing at all to do with praying TO the dead
  • Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 – men in heaven are as the angels
  • Rev 5:8 – those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
  • Mk 12:26-27 – he is God of the living, not of the dead
  • Mk 9:4 – Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
  • Lk 9:31 – Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
  • Rev 6:9-11 – martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
  • Heb 12:1 – we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
  • Lk 16:19-30 – departed rich man intercedes for brothers
man.... i went through all of these...


please give a scripture in reference to praying to anyone other than God


plus i dont know what bible you read

mine is much different

heres my rev 5 8 for example

Revelation 5:8

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#52
please....
dont take away from the word


or remove the context

would you like to talk about each and every one of these verses in relation to praying TO a dead human?
You know NNM,
I don't pray to saints, however I do want to say that we act as if we know EVERYTHING about the afterlife.
WE DON'T.

How can we know for sure that dead people can't hear us?
It's a possibility.

Jesus Himself went on the Mt. of Transfiguration to pray and who showed up but Moses, who was dead, and Elijah, who was also dead.

Why would Jesus have been speaking to dead people?

And in Hebrews 10:32-35 WHO is the Great Cloud Of Witnesses?

I don't discount anything.
We don't know everything.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#53
man.... i went through all of these...


please give a scripture in reference to praying to anyone other than God


plus i dont know what bible you read

mine is much different

heres my rev 5 8 for example

Revelation 5:8

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
He's not quoting the scripture but giving HIS understanding of it.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#54
You know NNM,
I don't pray to saints, however I do want to say that we act as if we know EVERYTHING about the afterlife.
WE DON'T.

How can we know for sure that dead people can't hear us?
It's a possibility.

Jesus Himself went on the Mt. of Transfiguration to pray and who showed up but Moses, who was dead, and Elijah, who was also dead.

Why would Jesus have been speaking to dead people?

And in Hebrews 10:32-35 WHO is the Great Cloud Of Witnesses?

I don't discount anything.
We don't know everything.
i never once said they cant hear us. (someone else may have said that though)

i said we shouldnt pray to them
 
Aug 16, 2016
2,184
62
0
#55
You know NNM, I don't pray to saints, however I do want to say that we act as if we know EVERYTHING about the afterlife. WE DON'T. How can we know for sure that dead people can't hear us? It's a possibility. Jesus Himself went on the Mt. of Transfiguration to pray and who showed up but Moses, who was dead, and Elijah, who was also dead. Why would Jesus have been speaking to dead people? And in Hebrews 10:32-35 WHO is the Great Cloud Of Witnesses? I don't discount anything. We don't know everything.
We cant pray to the deceased for them to hear us. The only way i see such communication taking place is if they are in heaven and the lord relays the message to them. But it's unknown if he does that.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,248
25,719
113
#56
God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share
His glory, while Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary.
Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother,
but Catholics call her the mother of humanity, and as if that
were not enough, the queen of heaven and the second Eve.

Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother,
His brother, His sister. Jesus never elevated Mary above others,
but Roman Catholics feel a need to not just elevate Mary above
others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sin-
lessness, (do you really think that she needed to be sinless so that
Jesus Christ could be sinless?). They are forced by so-called
infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas of her bodily
assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have
any basis whatsoever in Scripture.

Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, yet they pray to
Mary, because their popes tell them to despite what Jesus
explicitly instructed. Scripture clearly states that there is one
intercessor between God and man, yet their popes, bishops,
priests, parishioners etc, will tell you to pray to Mary, and other
dead people, for intercession. They fault those who do as Jesus
instructed,while they disobey Him to follow someone else instead.

We see nothing in Scripture to endorse her bodily assumption,
her perpetual virginity (Jesus had siblings after all, two of whom
have books in the Bible!), her immaculate conception. We see no
need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is
believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit
words of Jesus in Scripture.

Within
Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma
in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept:
1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ;
2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary;
and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who
brings them to the attention of her Son. Scripture also tells us not
to call anyone Father but God, while they call many men "father"
and blindly follow them.

Roman Catholics believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus
is building His Church on, not a confession of faith divinely inspired
by the Holy Spirit of God, despite a plethora of Scriptures that attest
to the fact that God is the sole Rock of our salvation. They teach
purgatory, and many other things neither the apostles nor Jesus
ever taught. For instance, they claim priests must be celibate, when
they were not in the early church. Another example would be infant
baptism, nowhere promoted in Scripture. They burned people at the
stake for daring to read the Bible, which is what Scripture tells us to do.

Despite all this, and more, the
Catholic Church considered herself
the only valid expression of the community of God for centuries.


Question: "Are Catholic beliefs and practices biblical?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

Here are a couple of sites that detail some of the changing beliefs of the RCC:

Catholicism's Ever-Changing Doctrine

Doctrinal evolution: Roman Catholic doctrinal flip flops

http://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#58
We cant pray to the deceased for them to hear us. The only way i see such communication taking place is if they are in heaven and the lord relays the message to them. But it's unknown if he does that.
Like I said, I wouldn't pray to a dead person.
I'm just not sure about everything like some here are.
I don't know if they can hear us.... Maybe it's like you're thinking in your post about God relaying messages. I don't think that either though.
Who can know for sure??

You know how sometimes you "talk" to someone in the family that has passed away?
I don't even do that. I know my parents are both with God and I'm happy for them and
I don't "talk" to them.

But some people do this.
Would that be considered prayer??
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#59
NO...there is one (1) mediator between God and MEN the MAN Christ JESUS......MARY has no intercessory power and to pray to her is to pray to an idol.....end of story!
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#60
NoNameMcgee wrote,



I believe what the Scriptures say also.



Me either.




  • Rom 15:30 – join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
  • Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 – pray for us
  • 2Thess 1:11 – we always pray for you
  • 2Thess 3:1 – finally, brothers, pray for us
  • Eph 6:18-19 – making supplication for all the saints & for me
  • Tob 12:12 – angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
  • Ps 148 – David calls upon angels
  • Zech 1:12 – angel intercedes for Jerusalem
  • Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 – men in heaven are as the angels
  • Rev 5:8 – those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
  • Mk 12:26-27 – he is God of the living, not of the dead
  • Mk 9:4 – Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
  • Lk 9:31 – Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
  • Rev 6:9-11 – martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
  • Heb 12:1 – we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
  • Lk 16:19-30 – departed rich man intercedes for brothers
You say you are of no denomination.
This is fine and not why I'm writing.

But I find it interesting how you arrived at believing that praying to the dead is biblical WITHOUT having a pre-conceived notion.

Here's why:

There are some things we know which we have to learn from theology and will not learn from reading the bible.

For instance...
The sacrament of Baptism is very simple in the bible, but we've made a rather complicated sacrament out of it.

The Trinity cannot be gleaned from just reading the bible --- it's a concept that had to be understood by theologians studying the bible.

Can we understand Jesus to be God from reading scripture, or do we believe this because we've already been told this?


So, I'm just wondering HOW do you come to the conclusion that we could pray to Mary, for instance?
I know you posted many verses, but that won't answer my question because you would have had to be already LOOKING for those verses and already have the idea in your mind.

If you don't answer, that's fine. Just wondering...