CEB translation of gen 1:1-2

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#1
I want to preface this by asking to please..........

1.Not get in to a KJV only debate.
2. Not get in to a debate over which version is most holy or best or whatever!

There is a new translation called the CEB.

I was looking at translation of some of its verses and their translation of Gen 1:1-2 really concerned me.

Most translations say the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. But this one says the wind of God.

To me relegating the SPIRIT OF GOD to a wind, well it seems WRONG!

Is this a legit translation, seeing that word in hebrew might mean wind or breath?

Link = Common English Bible - Compare Translations

When God began to create the heavens and the earth—the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters—


Anyone who knows me, knows I'm not an alarmist type person. You're not going to see me making threads warning you every time someone sneezes. So I'm not posting this just to be all-------------LOOK OUT THE END IS NEAR!!! WE'RE UNDER ATTACK BY EVIL!!!
 
D

Dmurray

Guest
#2
A Chinese Couple in my Church their English/Chinese version also says this. My Pastor thought it was interesting. I forget the reasoning he gave though. There is somewheres where it makes the comparison though that God's Spirit is like the wind. Maybe John 3 v 6
 

jangel

Senior Member
May 12, 2010
487
2
0
#3
A Chinese Couple in my Church their English/Chinese version also says this. My Pastor thought it was interesting. I forget the reasoning he gave though. There is somewheres where it makes the comparison though that God's Spirit is like the wind. Maybe John 3 v 6

I think you mean on verse 8.:)
 
R

Ricke

Guest
#4
Jangel

picky, picky, picky pa.! Ha ha.....ay Nacko..
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#7

at least they have a translated version professing Jesus is Lord albeit government controlled churches, still there is always the independants out there
 
C

Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#8
Robert Reymond addresses this in his systematic theology. He gives two reasons for accepting Spirit of God rather than wind:

1. Everywhere else the phrase occurs in the Old Testament, it refers to the Spirit of God and never to a mighty wind. (See, for example, Exod. 31:3; Num. 24:2; 1 Sam. 10:10; 2 Chron. 24:20; Ezek. 11:24).

2. The participle מְרַחֶפֶת, meraḥep̱eṯ, traditionally rendered “moved” and describing the action of רוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, rûaḥ ˓elōhîm, does not describe the action of wind. In Deuteronomy 32:11 a verb from the same root describes the action of an eagle hovering over her young.​

(NSTCF 386).
 
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Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#9
I just took a look at the link to the CEB you posted. If found it's translation of the first clause in Gen. 1.1 to be disturbing as well:

"When God began to create the heavens and the earth..."​

The idea is that Genesis is not teaching a creation out of nothing, but possibly some preexisting matter. For example, it would be like me saying "When I began to sculpt the statue it was a real mess."

Again, Robert Reymond is helpful here and I'll quote him at length:

"The entire issue of whether to render Genesis 1:1 as “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” or as a temporal clause meaning “When God began to create the heaven and the earth,” turns on the first word-group in Genesis, traditionally translated “In the beginning.” This word is composed of the preposition בְּ, be, meaning “in,” and the noun רֵאשִׁית, rē˒s̊îṯ, meaning “beginning.” The noun is anarthrous, having no article, and as far as its form is concerned could be in either the absolute or the construct state. Now admittedly, when a definite noun is in the construct state, it is anarthrous and derives its definiteness from the following definite noun or verbal idea. Hence, it is argued by modern scholars that since בְּרֵאשִׁית, berē˒s̊îṯ, is anarthrous, (1) it is standing in relation to what follows, (2) it is thus made definite by the following verbal idea, and (3) it is accordingly to be translated literally: “In the beginning of God’s creating,” which resolves itself quite naturally into the temporal thought: “When God began to create.” (A noun in the construct state is normally followed, it is true, by another noun while here it is followed by the finite verb בָּרָא, bārā˒; but it must be admitted that such a construction is also a genuine Semitic usage, as evidenced by the occurrence of this construction in Exod. 4:13; 6:28; Lev. 14:46; Deut. 4:15; 1 Sam. 5:9; 25:15; Pss. 16:3; 58:9; 81:6; Isa. 29:1; Hos. 1:2.)

But does the omission of the article in בְּרֵאשִׁית, berē˒s̊îṯ, demand that the noun be construed as standing in a construct relation to the following finite verb? Not necessarily, for in Isaiah 46:10 this very word is anarthrous, and yet it is clearly in the absolute state: “the One declaring from [the] beginning the end.” Thus the mere absence of the article is not sufficient evidence, standing alone, for determining the state of the noun רֵאשִׁית, re˒s̊îṯ. The decision must be made in the light of other considerations, and for these I am indebted to Edward J. Young’s following exegetical insights:

1. In the Hebrew text בְּרֵאשִׁית, berē˒s̊îṯ, is accented with a disjunctive accent, indicating that the word has its own independent accent and was thus construed by the Masoretes as an absolute noun.

2. Without exception the ancients versions regarded בְּרֵאשִׁית, berē˒s̊îṯ, as an absolute.

3. In the Old Testament when a construct noun precedes a finite verb, the fact of constructness is apparent, either from the form of the noun in construct or from the demands of the context that the noun be so taken. Neither of these conditions is present in Genesis 1:1. In fact, the context, specifically the finite verb בָּרָא, bārā˒, favors the absolute state, for while the verb is frequently employed with the accusative of the product produced, it is never employed in a context where an accusative of the material employed in the creative act is mentioned, which would be the case here if בְּרֵאשִׁית, berē˒s̊îṯ, were construed as a construct noun. Even Gerhard von Rad, the form-critical Old Testament scholar, feels obliged to write: “Since pre-existent matter is never mentioned in connection with this activity [denoted by בָּרָא, bārā˒], the idea of creatio ex nihilo is connected with it.”

It is preferable, therefore, to view בְּרֵאשִׁית, berē˒s̊îṯ, as an absolute noun on the analogy of ’Εν ἀρχῇ, en archē, in John 1:1, and to construe verse 1 as a grand summary statement of the creation of the universe out of nothing—as it has been traditionally rendered."​

(NSTCF 389-390).

Just from looking at these two issues, the CEB might be too concerned with novel liberal interpretations of unpopular doctrines rather than choosing the interpretation that is the most probable given the immediate context and the broader theological context.
 
S

Shwagga

Guest
#10
Nice Credo_ut_Intelligam.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#11
Check out John 1 in the CEB. I don't have my copy here, but I think that was the text that made me put it away.
 
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#12
Don't know about CEB. How many more versions do we need. God is not a wind, God invented wind.
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
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#13
Wind definitely would not be right,for it is God Himself who is a Spirit that created things.

God did not create things by wind but by His Spirit.God did not created anything like moving like the wind but by His Spirit.

God does not have to move from one place to another,for He is already there.

God may move like the wind,but His Spirit is not wind and He created everything by His Spirit,which God does not have to move from one place to another,for He is already there.

Matt
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#14
GOD's Spirit is the right one, in my opinion
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#15

I want to preface this by asking to please..........


1.Not get in to a KJV only debate.


2. Not get in to a debate over which version is most holy or best or whatever!

There is a new translation called the CEB.


I was looking at translation of some of its verses and their translation of Gen 1:1-2 really

concerned me.


Most translations say the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. But this one says

the wind of God.


To me relegating the SPIRIT OF GOD to a wind, well it seems WRONG!


Is this a legit translation, seeing that word in hebrew might mean wind or breath?


Link =
Common English Bible - Compare Translations

When God began to create the heavens and the earth
 
D

DanuckInUSA

Guest
#16
It is the breath concept. Nooma.
 
May 16, 2010
337
0
0
#17
What makes me laugh about the whole thing isn't so much using the word Wind to describe YAH (I AM Get Over Death) however it does only cover one of His attributes, But its the fact that every version KJV included, has the word was in the second verse.

I wish i had those study materials with me, but i've passed them on. If anybody does a little homework into this, they will find that in the Maserotic Texts, the best copies we all have of the originals; (NOT the modern day mass re-produced Jewish texts, like our Bible) but the authentic Museum quality schrolls, You will find that the word WAS in the 2nd verse is clearly, became.

When you consider how much this one word alone, could change your view on the rest of the Bible, it starts to become easy to understand why there are so many mis-conceptions out there. 400 years later, and they Still don't have it right????????? I don't mean to be a conspirest, But come on.

Yes theres the Fall of Man; But thats Secondary to the issue of the entire Bible; Its about the Fall of The Angels. This is way more serious than i beleive anyone born of women could possibly deal with. When the time comes were ALL going to NEED Christ Desparetly.

I know i'm covering some old ground here; but i do try my hardest to share Truth. Conspiraces??? Old ground again, sorry; But i did just recently try to share my recent exsposure to the book of Enoch and the book of Thomas. Pretty much Zero response. It is Obvious to me that YES there IS a conspiracy going on, as both of these books not only reniforce the Bible, but fills in a lot of the blanks, that people on here are unable to come into agreement on.

Remember where we are warned, that these are men of old, men of renown, that left their First Estate, pre-destined to this condemnation, turning The Word of God into laviousness etc...

The Maserotic texts are extremely important, IF you want deeper understanding, and the books of Enoch and Thomas in English translation, will help also. I'll attempt to back this statement up with this little story.

Billy Grahams wife was at a social gathering one time and she got talking with a Scotland Yard detective, who she discovered dealt with counterfiting. She said, My you must be kept very busy checking all those fake bills. He responded; actually maa'm, i don't spend hardly anytime looking at fake bills; I continually study the originals, that way its much easier to spot a fake.

Love and Peace to ALL in CHRIST!!!Forever!