Cessationism

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Dec 21, 2012
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#61
okay

there is a very well worn path around that mulberry bush enow and I think most of the footprints are yours

how you can state that no one received an infilling of the Holy Spirit after salvation, when the Bible plainly states otherwise, may be a contributor to your stance

I really do not wish to keep this going as it has been hashed out ad infinitum and I have a low boredom threshold :p

14 Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: 16 for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8

these people were saved and even baptized but had NOT received the Holy Spirit so the Apostles prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit. it is stated very plainly that the Holy Spirit had NOT fallen on any of the saved people in Samaria.


Let's remember your point of contention.

how you can state that no one received an infilling of the Holy Spirit after salvation


It is hard to know where you stand right now since I had been contending that there is no more infilling after salvation. To wit, are you contending that a saved believer can receive another infilling of the Holy Spirit or that you believe that the infilling of the Holy Spirit can happen apart from salvation?

Let's assume the former; your reference to Acts 8 cites clearly that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet, and so it cannot be used a proof text that a saved believer can receive another infilling of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.

Then assuming the latter, they cannot be considered born again of the Spirit, as in saved, until they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit. Why the delay? God only knows for sure, but we know that there was a switch in the fanfare from Simon the sorcerer to Philip performing miracles, even casting out unclean spirits that Simon was responsible for in afflicting the people of that region.

You have to ask yourself why didn't the Holy Spirit come by way of Philip? Why the laying on of hands by Peter & John? I say as the Lord leads me, they believed in the "things" that Philip preached about; that they were receiving the Word of God in that way, BUT their sights were on Philip; not Jesus Christ in receiving the promise. Proof of that was by how Simon was in a gall of bitterness still, as he must have blamed Philip for his loss of infamy, and still saw Philip as undoing all his work when it was really Jesus Christ. Simon's sights on Peter & John only confirms the suspicion as he had thought he could buy that power from them... that he had thought Peter & John were giving the Holy Ghost.

So I believe God is patient and longsuffering towards those new believers, but they were being fans of Philip and following him to see the signs and miracles rather than having their sights lifted higher. That is why no one can tell when one is born again of the Spirit. When someone is being delivered out of the supernatural, their sights have to be on God, not man; the same has to be true for being saved.

Now one can take that as all conjecture, but His words says they were not saved until they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit in order to say they have been born again of the Spirit and thus saved.

Romans 8:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I also point out that those new believers were not testified as speaking in tongues when they had received the Holy Spirit at their salvation. There was no need to speak another language to other unbelievers as a sign when they all spoke the same thing.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#62
You did not look hard enough.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (1 Cor 13:8).

Cessationism comes from the word "cease", and cease means "to stop". Here are the Greek words (actually the same word) to match the English.

[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: greek2"]καταργηθήσονται

καταργηθήσεται

καταργέω[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Strong's Concordance
katargeó: to render inoperative, abolish
Original Word: καταργέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katargeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-arg-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I bring to naught, sever, abolish
Definition: (a) I make idle (inactive), make of no effect, annul, abolish, bring to naught, (b) I discharge, sever, separate from
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Why when this topic is brought up why do people always, always go to tongues?
Paul said that gift was the least of all gifts and that we should prophesy.

There are 8 other gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1 Cor 12 and 5 in Romans 12 and some in 1 Peter 4 and 5 in EPh 4.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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#64
Where did this doctrine come from?

Is there any scripture to back it up? I have yet to find any.

Why is cessationism versus continuation such a dividing factor in the church today?

Obviously, I am not a cessationist. If you are, don't worry, I don't think you're a bad person or 'not saved' or anything ridiculous like that. But I am genuinely curious, why do you believe the Holy Spirit would just... stop doing what He's doing in the world in such a powerful way?
It is the work of the spirit of anti-Christ.
Christ = the anointed
Pentecostal saints received an anointing (the Holy Spirit)
anti-anointing = anti-gospel
denying the only gospel preached by Jesus and the Apostles
mutilating the 'long" ending of Mark 16
Constantine and the incorporation of 2nd century Christian faith into pagan Rome
the rebirth of Rome under the Papacy > Roman Catholic rule of Europe
The Reformation giving back to Christendom the Bible in common tongues but
creating new church faiths on the teachings of men
The desire by those not practicing the original God given gospel of Pentecost to
defend their departure from the scriptures by attacking the scriptures
self will of many over submission and obedience to the Spirit of truth.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#65
When was the last time you tried?

Part of gifts are healings, prophecies, raising the dead, limbs coming back, &c. Do these happen today? No. Ppl want to act like modern day profits...errr...prophets.
Then you should also cease believing in salvation and righteousness. These are also "gifts".

James 1:17-
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#66
Come on. Who can deny this!?!?? :rolleyes:


when peeps start shooting back and posting vids and comments by MacArthur and Sproul, that upset you, remember something very important. You started this foolishness and a false profit like Benny Hinn does not disprove the ministry of the HOly Spirit today. It just proves a lot of public preachers are in the flesh.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#67
Let's remember your point of contention.



It is hard to know where you stand right now since I had been contending that there is no more infilling after salvation. To wit, are you contending that a saved believer can receive another infilling of the Holy Spirit or that you believe that the infilling of the Holy Spirit can happen apart from salvation?

Let's assume the former; your reference to Acts 8 cites clearly that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet, and so it cannot be used a proof text that a saved believer can receive another infilling of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.

Then assuming the latter, they cannot be considered born again of the Spirit, as in saved, until they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit. Why the delay? God only knows for sure, but we know that there was a switch in the fanfare from Simon the sorcerer to Philip performing miracles, even casting out unclean spirits that Simon was responsible for in afflicting the people of that region.

You have to ask yourself why didn't the Holy Spirit come by way of Philip? Why the laying on of hands by Peter & John? I say as the Lord leads me, they believed in the "things" that Philip preached about; that they were receiving the Word of God in that way, BUT their sights were on Philip; not Jesus Christ in receiving the promise. Proof of that was by how Simon was in a gall of bitterness still, as he must have blamed Philip for his loss of infamy, and still saw Philip as undoing all his work when it was really Jesus Christ. Simon's sights on Peter & John only confirms the suspicion as he had thought he could buy that power from them... that he had thought Peter & John were giving the Holy Ghost.

So I believe God is patient and longsuffering towards those new believers, but they were being fans of Philip and following him to see the signs and miracles rather than having their sights lifted higher. That is why no one can tell when one is born again of the Spirit. When someone is being delivered out of the supernatural, their sights have to be on God, not man; the same has to be true for being saved.

Now one can take that as all conjecture, but His words says they were not saved until they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit in order to say they have been born again of the Spirit and thus saved.

Romans 8:[/FONT][/COLOR][SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I also point out that those new believers were not testified as speaking in tongues when they had received the Holy Spirit at their salvation. There was no need to speak another language to other unbelievers as a sign when they all spoke the same thing.

so sad you have chosen to ignore the passage I posted along with Paul's instruction

this red herring post of yours is so red it's a new color

you know, I have been totally upfront with you and took time and posted scritpure and you just ignore it and now you say
you don't know where I stand

funny no one else has that problem with me
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#68
Originally Posted by SovereignGrace

Come on. Who can deny this!?!?? :rolleyes:

ya really wanna know who?

God denies it. this is not His Holy Spirit.

this is spiritual all right, but not holy
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#69
That is hardly a valid argument. While Christ and the apostles were on earth, they were bitterly opposed and persecuted. Many Jews refused to believe that they were sent by God. Yet that did not in any way hinder them from performing signs, and wonders, and miracles. IOW unbelief could not stop miracles.

Today, it would be the same. If indeed unbelief was stopping miracles, then that would be contrary to the teaching on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not say that those gifts could be prevented from being manifested simply by unbelief. At the same time, the Bible makes it clear that signs, wonders, and miracles were for a limited purpose, and a limited period. And that is while the Gospel being preached by Christ and the apostles was authenticated by God.

Today, with a complete Bible, God wants people to believe the Gospel because He has given us a record of His Son. Now the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe. And the Holy Spirit uses the Gospel as the "seed" from which the New Birth comes about.

If miracle workers were to be active today, they would be in EVERY CHURCH, regardless of whether it was Pentecostal or not, and regardless of who believed and who did not. It is God who would be placing miracle workers in all the churches if He still wished to use miracles to authenticate the Gospel.

In any any event, supernatural prophecies, tongues, and knowledge have all passed away. People can either believe the Bible or disbelieve it. As Jesus said, if they do not believe Moses, they will not believe though one rose from the dead.
It most certainly is a valid argument. If no one has the faith to walk out on water, like Peter, then such stories would have never been told. Cessationists cry about a lack of evidence for miracles but their perspective is self-defeating. They themselves do not believe, and what, if anything, has scripture shown us in regards to the miraculous? There needs to be faith, if even just a little bit. Yet Cessationism doesn't even try to attempt the miraculous as it is in a position of doubt and ignorance. They let experience override God's word, circumstance over faith. "I don't see miracles, so its no longer for today.", says the cessationist.

The validity in the argument is that Cessationists are hypocrites, challenging others to go out and empty hospitals yet themselves are in a position of disbelief. This is to their own shame, that they have allowed their lack of experience to dictate their understanding of God's word.

Truly what needs to cease is Cessationism.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#70
That is hardly a valid argument. While Christ and the apostles were on earth, they were bitterly opposed and persecuted. Many Jews refused to believe that they were sent by God. Yet that did not in any way hinder them from performing signs, and wonders, and miracles. IOW unbelief could not stop miracles.

Today, it would be the same. If indeed unbelief was stopping miracles, then that would be contrary to the teaching on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not say that those gifts could be prevented from being manifested simply by unbelief. At the same time, the Bible makes it clear that signs, wonders, and miracles were for a limited purpose, and a limited period. And that is while the Gospel being preached by Christ and the apostles was authenticated by God.

Today, with a complete Bible, God wants people to believe the Gospel because He has given us a record of His Son. Now the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe. And the Holy Spirit uses the Gospel as the "seed" from which the New Birth comes about.

If miracle workers were to be active today, they would be in EVERY CHURCH, regardless of whether it was Pentecostal or not, and regardless of who believed and who did not. It is God who would be placing miracle workers in all the churches if He still wished to use miracles to authenticate the Gospel.

In any any event, supernatural prophecies, tongues, and knowledge have all passed away. People can either believe the Bible or disbelieve it. As Jesus said, if they do not believe Moses, they will not believe though one rose from the dead.
Interesting, except for one flaw.

You are making the gifts out to be the culprit, when it is the Spirit working through men to accomplish his power then and even today The Holy spirit can be quenched, right? This happened to Jesus in Mark 6, not all were healed because of their unbelief and well we know from Acts 10:38 that Jesus did not do miracles because he was the son of God, he did them because he was anointed with Power and the Holy Spirit. We also know this by Phil 2 in which Jesus set aside his God powers and become a man of no reputation. He could do no mighty work there, because of their unbelief in the power he was anointed in.


We also see that the same anointing of Power and the Holy Spirit came upon 120 in the upper room and hit them again in Acts 4 and then came upon Paul when Ananias laid his hands upon him, and the same for Timothy, when Paul laid his hands on on him. Prophecy is not future telling, Paul defined it in 1 Cor 14 as speaking words of edification, exhortation and comfort.

People can either believe the Bible or disbelieve it, but people need to stop tearing out the pages that does not jive with their human understanding, because 1 Cor 2 has not hit them yet and made it real to them.

Jesus promised us the Holy Spirit if we asked him for it:


Luke 11:9-13

[SUP]9 [/SUP]“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? [SUP]12 [/SUP]Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? [SUP]13 [/SUP]If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#71
We need to ask which spirit it is. the Devil works lies and wonders. the Devil can heal sickness when he puts it in people.
Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The sure word is our only safety.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Show chapter and verse that Satan can heal, when he puts sickness on people?
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#72
Of course 1 Cor 13 speaks only about prophecies, tongues, and knowledge. That they will cease. But the rest of the New Testament makes it clear that signs, wonders, and miracles were for the apostles and their companions. And by the time we get to the book of James, healings are through the prayers of the elders. So sign gifts were for the Apostolic Age, but there are many other gifts which are for today.
There 9 Gifts of the Holy Spirit
3 revelation
3 power
3 vocal

There are 5 grace gifts in Romans 12

There are 5 gifts to the Body of Christ in Eph 4

There are 4 -5 grace gifts in 1 Peter 4
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#74
You are making the gifts out to be the culprit, when it is the Spirit working through men to accomplish his power then and even today
No, I am not making the gifts out to be "the culprit" as you suggest. You mentioned the unbelief of UNBELIEVERS when Christ could not or would not do miracles. ("Would not" would be more accurate). But we are not discussing the unbelief of unbelievers but the sincere conviction of many believers that the age of miracle workers passed away with the apostles.

So this cannot possibly be a hindrance to the Holy Spirit to continue providing those signs, wonders and miracles, if indeed that is God's plan AFTER the apostolic age. Which means that every Bible-believing church should have AT LEAST one miracle-worker, and miracles should abound daily in every church, in every part of the world, regardless of denomination.

If this were really the case, then you would have daily reports in the media concerning these miracles.

Christians should be content that there are many other spiritual gifts (apart from sign gifts) which are present at this time and which should be used for the benefit of the lost and the saved.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#75
okay

there is a very well worn path around that mulberry bush enow and I think most of the footprints are yours

how you can state that no one received an infilling of the Holy Spirit after salvation, when the Bible plainly states otherwise, may be a contributor to your stance

I really do not wish to keep this going as it has been hashed out ad infinitum and I have a low boredom threshold :p

14 Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: 16 for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8

these people were saved and even baptized but had NOT received the Holy Spirit so the Apostles prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit. it is stated very plainly that the Holy Spirit had NOT fallen on any of the saved people in Samaria.

if you continue in this chapter, you will read where a man named Simon offered money to be able to give the gift of the Holy Spirit and of course he was soundly rebuked. this indicates an accepted occurrence of a second infilling. here we have the true reflected against the untrue.


So you were speaking for the former; and you oppose yourself as I put it in bold in your quote.

You say they had not received the Holy Spirit yet and yet you used that reference to claim that was a second infilling.

So you are not reading that passage right nor are you applying His words right either.

Paul clearly teaches that we should pray for the gifts of the Holy Spirit
He exhorted believers when zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy.

and states do not forbid speaking in tongues
In verse 28, he did forbid when it comes with no interpretation because it meant a foreign visitor was speaking out of turn which can happen when 2 or 3 speak in tongues one by one and another interpret.

and also writes about praying and singing in tongues...
That tongue he was talking about in context in relations to that was to come with interpretation as that whole chapter was in reference to tongues in the assembly and why prophesy is better because tongues is not a stand alone gift.

Paul prayed that another would interpret that tongue so that he, as a tongue speaker, would understand it and that tongue would be fruitful to himself. That is why tongues is not a stand alone gift and why prophesy is the gift to seek after.

I think it was Ben who started a thread on that directly, I believe due to your saying repeatedly that practice was fake. In fact, HERE is that thread
Not sure I was saying that it was fake repeatedly since I am the one that believes there is a supernatural tongue in the world before Pentecost that is not of Him for why some believers may actually believe they have His gift of tongues.

so I am within biblical norms to pray for the Holy Spirit,
Which from your stance, I can only assume that you meant you prayed for another infilling of the Holy Ghost apart from salvation for a sign of tongues?

to pray for spiritual gifts and to pray and sing in tongues

it is clearly written and this is sufficient.
Then it is clearly written that tongues were not to serve as a sign or proof towards the believers for anything.

1 Corinthians 14:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

this is my final say on the matter here
I did not disregard Paul's words. Just saying Paul's words opposes how you are using Paul's words for defense of that tongue to be sued privately and gained by the apostasy of preaching to receive Jesus again, with the Holy Ghost and the Father again also.

2 Corinthians 11:[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Can any tongue speaker explain away this warning for seeking another infilling of the Holy Ghost just to get tongues?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#76
So you were speaking for the former; and you oppose yourself as I put it in bold in your quote.

You say they had not received the Holy Spirit yet and yet you used that reference to claim that was a second infilling.

So you are not reading that passage right nor are you applying His words right either.



He exhorted believers when zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy.



In verse 28, he did forbid when it comes with no interpretation because it meant a foreign visitor was speaking out of turn which can happen when 2 or 3 speak in tongues one by one and another interpret.



That tongue he was talking about in context in relations to that was to come with interpretation as that whole chapter was in reference to tongues in the assembly and why prophesy is better because tongues is not a stand alone gift.

Paul prayed that another would interpret that tongue so that he, as a tongue speaker, would understand it and that tongue would be fruitful to himself. That is why tongues is not a stand alone gift and why prophesy is the gift to seek after.



Not sure I was saying that it was fake repeatedly since I am the one that believes there is a supernatural tongue in the world before Pentecost that is not of Him for why some believers may actually believe they have His gift of tongues.



Which from your stance, I can only assume that you meant you prayed for another infilling of the Holy Ghost apart from salvation for a sign of tongues?



Then it is clearly written that tongues were not to serve as a sign or proof towards the believers for anything.

1 Corinthians 14:[/FONT][/COLOR][SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.



I did not disregard Paul's words. Just saying Paul's words opposes how you are using Paul's words for defense of that tongue to be sued privately and gained by the apostasy of preaching to receive Jesus again, with the Holy Ghost and the Father again also.

2 Corinthians 11:[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Can any tongue speaker explain away this warning for seeking another infilling of the Holy Ghost just to get tongues?


enow

do you not see how disingenuous you are being by refusing to address the Apostles praying for people in Syria to receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit?

this is no longer an honest exchange because you refuse to deal with scripture that refutes your position

it would also be unwise to assume anything and actually quite unfair when I have never moved from my stance


さようなら


Sayōnara
 
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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
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#78
Miracles are miracles nothing more and nothing less. God is God nothuing less. God who is not served by human hands does not heal by human hands He will be healing untill the last day when death will be destroyed . Miracles fall on the just and the unjust just like rain from heaven, or the doctrines of God that fall like manna.

No such thing as a sign gift.Its a shadow of the spiritual substance... we walk by faith the unseen .Signs are for those who rebel by walking by sight requiring as sign before they believe. .

The sign of rebellion in the garden....

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
I've addressed this at least twice, but you don't seem to have read (or haven't accepted) the explanation. Those who operate in the gifts/manifestations of the Holy Spirit as described in 1 Cor 12-14 usually aren't seeking "signs". Rather, they are seeking to be obedient to the word Paul wrote by inspiration of the same Holy Spirit. Your conflation of the two is simply incorrect and is an irrelevant canard.


Thanks for a demonstration of the normal reaction to the teaching that 1 Cor 13:8 provides.

Miracles still occur but there are no miracle workers apart from God. Healings occur but there are no healers just a faithful, caring God.

The Holy Spirit is moving and working in the affairs of men but the Holy Spirit is not subject to the will of men.
This is different from the first century how exactly? Did Paul work any miracle by his own power? Did Peter, or any of the other apostles? No. They all required the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't think you'll find any otherwise-sound Christian claiming to bring about any miraculous event by his or her own power.

1 Cor 13:8 simply says nothing about miracles or healing. What it does say about prophecy, knowledge and tongues ceasing is tied to the appearance of "the perfect". We disagree on what this is; I contest that it happens at the end of the age; you contest that it happened at the end of the first century, or thereabouts. Your view therefore requires the presumption that all claims to prophecy, tongues or knowledge are automatically false.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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#79


enow

do you not see how ingenuous you are being by refusing to address the Apostles praying for people in Syria to receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit?

this is no longer an honest exchange because you refuse to deal with scripture that refutes your position.

Oh, Enow deals with them. He claims "tongue speakers" misinterpret them or take them out of context.

He denies the plain simple statements of scripture.

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Enow says it's not true.

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Enow says it's not true.

1 Cor 14:
28) But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Enow says it's not true.

It's impossible to have meaningful dialog with people who deny clear statements of scripture.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#80
Oh, Enow deals with them. He claims "tongue speakers" misinterpret them or take them out of context.

He denies the plain simple statements of scripture.

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Enow says it's not true.

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Enow says it's not true.

1 Cor 14:
28) But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Enow says it's not true.

It's impossible to have meaningful dialog with people who deny clear statements of scripture.
yeah

tried and true enow methodology

I do appreciate his continued patience while he explains why everyone else is wrong though..LOL!