Children of the Promise

[DP]

You need to go back and read what I wrote and UNERTSTAND it before you comment. I know who the promise was given to, it was given to Abraham and the SEED was called in Isaac. Isaac was not called because he was a FLESH descendant of Abraham, he was called because Isaac was a child of the PROMISE! Paul was a child of promise, Peter was a child of promise, I am a child of promise.. none of us were chosen because of our earthly heritage.

Galatians 4:28 KJV
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

If you're going to respond to this please read and understand what I wrote, dont skim it thinking you know what I'm talking about.

Oh, I understand what you've said, and I also well understand God's Word on this matter, because it's about His Election that HE CHOSE, by HIS HAND, not ours.

So when Paul quoted the OT prophets in Romans 11 that all Israel will be saved, that is how it's going to be, because God is Who said it, NOT man!

Rom 11:26-29
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Do you even know the meaning of the red bold phrases below concerning God's ELECTION... I really doubt it....


28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

 

[DP]

He died for our sins. All of our sins. He died for and because of us.

Yeah, but we are not to allow Satan's children to try and lay a guilt trip upon us because of the unbelieving murderers who had Him crucified!

Don't confuse what I'm saying. By the time of our Lord Jesus' 1st coming, the crept in unawares from OT history, like the Canaanite bondservant Nethinims, had crept into the offices of priest, scribes, and within the Pharisees. They were the main ones that orchestrated our Lord Jesus' crucifixion, and deceived some of the Jews into agreeing.

 

[kaylagrl]

Yeah, but we are not to allow Satan's children to try and lay a guilt trip upon us because of the unbelieving murderers who had Him crucified!

Don't confuse what I'm saying. By the time of our Lord Jesus' 1st coming, the crept in unawares from OT history, like the Canaanite bondservant Nethinims, had crept into the offices of priest, scribes, and within the Pharisees. They were the main ones that orchestrated our Lord Jesus' crucifixion, and deceived some of the Jews into agreeing.

I guess the point Im trying to get across is that Jews aren't Christkillers. They have been exiled from almost every country on earth. They have been persecuted and murdered, many times by so called Christians, under the name of Christkillers. Its wrong and as I said it was our sin that kept Him on the cross. Yes,the good news is He has saved us but He died a horrible death to set us free. So to blame Jews like they are guilty and we take no blame even though He died for our sin,is unfair.Hopefully I made it clearer.

 

[BenFTW]

I guess the point Im trying to get across is that Jews aren't Christkillers. They have been exiled from almost every country on earth. They have been persecuted and murdered, many times by so called Christians, under the name of Christkillers. Its wrong and as I said it was our sin that kept Him on the cross. Yes,the good news is He has saved us but He died a horrible death to set us free. So to blame Jews like they are guilty and we take no blame even though He died for our sin,is unfair.Hopefully I made it clearer.

[video=youtube;SFidMqHltBs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFidMqHltBs[/video]

 

[kaylagrl]

[video=youtube;SFidMqHltBs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFidMqHltBs[/video]

Lol, exactly! He said it much better than I did though.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

It does show the Jews killed Jesus Christ

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

As Stephen said,

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers

Then they stones Stephen there in 59

Then Paul said,

1 Thes 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

1 Thes 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men

1 Thes 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

I think one can safely say they did without saying evil since the apostles could say the same without being evil in saying so.

They being Abraham's seed after the flesh

Jesus said to them,

John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Agar answers to Jerusalem,

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Whereas Paul said,

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

In contrast to

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

These are Jews saying this, not Gentiles

They are Christians (obviously ) even of the Jews themselves, being apostles of Christ, but they are just acknowldging the Jews killed Jesus.

No one is persecuting people who are called Jews today over what the apostles are testifying to

Not that they couldnt say what Jesus pointed out (in respects to the blood of the former prophets)

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Whereas Jesus said if they said so much he said,

Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Mat 23: 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Which again, is the same, they dont conceal the truth of it

1 Thes 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us (the apostles of Christ); and they please not God, and are contrary to all men

The same forbidding the apostles to the Gentiles here

1 Thes 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

So no one is persecuting anyone pointing out the apostles words otherwise we could say the apostles are persecutors of the Jews, that would but weird.

 

[PeterJens]

Justice. Israel is becoming more right wing and extreme in the way it handles conflict.

A large part of the Jewish community hate zionism, and think defining Israel as the religions representation of their faith is wrong. The extreme muslims want Israel to continue to exist so they have something to hate and get the whole community angry about. Equally the right wing Israelis want to be victims so their behaviour in the west bank can be justified.

Now if as christians we want to spiritualise these two groups who are squeezing prophecy to justify hatred and that is meant to be of God, I doubt that very much. The problem is if the nutcases in Israel actually try and re-establish the temple.

WWIII will be on its way. Things are moving into place where insanity can walk.

If you want to talk about significant prophecy, killing 6 million jews should be ranked up there, but there is just silence. I think this is superstition type ideas, rather than anything sane. Ahmnedimijad wanted to push politics to war so that the Mahadii would appear. This kind of insanity has not gone away. For any christian to say this is how God works needs some serious help.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

This verse should be in the above

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Just before

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy Oneand the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Its just the acknowledgment of events, I dont believe the apostles are persecuting the Jews saying these things as we know these things were prophesied of.

 

[dcontroversal]

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile as the two have been made one....there is a remnant of Jews that will believe collectively when they look upon him whom they have pierced and will weep for him and be folded in under the banner of faith...having said that...The Lion of the tribe of Judah still has national plans for Israel and he will fulfill his will toward Israel and the land of Israel.....!

 

[ember]

I can understand what Blain is saying there. VVhen people come out with doctrines that are contrary to His nature, you know they are fallacious. It's like people saying God is done with Israel and the Jewish people (lol, that long set up) when He has made promises to them. Is God faithful? Then He will not be a liar and follow through with His word to these people and nation.

I see what you are saying Ben and I appreciate how much Blain strives for what he feels, however, I was still responding to the following:

Originally Posted by ember

not so...God choose Abraham and said that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. There is only one race that is referred to as God's chosen people..ONE physical race...through which ALL the nations of the earth would be blessed

In

Genesis 12, God promised Abraham that he would be the father of a great nation (the Jews), the Jews would possess a land, that nation would be blessed above all other nations, and all other nations would be blessed from Israel. So, from the beginning God revealed that Israel would be His chosen people on the earth, but that His blessing would not be limited to them exclusively. Galatians 3:14 identifies the nature of the blessing to come to all the other nations: “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” All the nations of the world were blessed by Israel, through whom the Savior of the world came.

The above scripture plainly shows that the blessings we enjoy through our savation, come through Abraham whose faith was accounted to him as righteousness

You know, the entire Bible must be considered when one ventures out to teach what they consider a major doctrine...such as who is and who is not considered a child of God

I'm sorry but your wrong. When you become so close to father that you begin to understand his way of thinking begin to see as he does begin to even feel what he feels then it doesn't matter what any interpretation or view or belief or doctrine says your heart instinctively knows your heart resonates with his own.

his children his precious ones his children of promise if they were only though a certain blood line then his love is not truly as deep as he claims it is it? Even I have seen the dangers of favoritism especially if a parent does this how much more do you think father knows? when made us forming us in the womb he took such care in making us even from every single hair on our head the warmth and love he had and felt as he made us when he thought of us is something that I have felt many times and yet my heart my soul my body cannot contain even a drop of it.

What he is objecting to, is the scripture I posted and apparently doing so because of how he feels. He does state that it does not matter what any interpretation or view or belief or doctrine says your heart instinctively knows your heart resonates with his own.


I was not posting to anything he stated...he just jumped in and I answered to what he wrote

Perhaps he did not understand what I posted.

Don't know at this point.

 

[Blain]

I see what you are saying Ben and I appreciate how much Blain strives for what he feels, however, I was still responding to the following:





What he is objecting to, is the scripture I posted and apparently doing so because of how he feels. He does state that it does not matter what any interpretation or view or belief or doctrine says your heart instinctively knows your heart resonates with his own.


I was not posting to anything he stated...he just jumped in and I answered to what he wrote

Perhaps he did not understand what I posted.

Don't know at this point.

Ember What I was objecting to was the idea that God chose only the jews to be his children of promise and that the children of promise had anything to do with the flesh. The children of promise no matter of race of blood line of color has been and always will be about their hearts, what makes them his has nothing to do with being Jew or Gentile strong or weak.

 

[ember]

i'm sorry if I made you think I thought I was any closer or any better to God than you I promise that was not mt intent at all.
But your right I have no idea what you have been though what struggles what pain what sadness, I never once thought myself special or strong or any more worthy than anyone else because of my struggles and pain in life and it certainly has nothing to do with me in this day. But I am not a Christian because I want to be holy or for myself at all, as a Christian as a person as a believer as a child of God I have always only sought to be one thing above everything else and that is Love not the kind of love that we humans know of but the kind of love that comes from his heart alone.

My reason my purpose in this life is to connect with those who know pain who struggle who know how harsh life can be, I have intention of being right no intention of being stronger than anyone or closer to God than anyone. I desire very strongly to be that strong to be closer to God than we ever thought possible to develop a love a bond a connection with him that more beautiful that stronger that more rich than any of us though possible however I seek all of this and at that kind of level so that all others can know and have the same thing with him.

More than anything I want all others to know him and have a love with him to know who they are to him what he sees when looks at them what thinks when he thinks of them how deeply they are cared for, and if I ever receive my hearts desire to the fullest then they will have a deeper and stronger love and bond and closeness than I ever will.

Blain...the problem presented, is that in your response you seem to forget that another may be just as sincere or more so.

That is why I do not try to present how I feel...but rather what is presented in the BIble.

This obnoxious false doctrine of replacement theology is more than just false. It is blasphemous for it's exclusion of what God actually has promised to the Jewish people and also because it presents a false standing of the Gentiles who believe. WE have NOT taken the place of, nor have we become the physcial Israel.

There are simply both spiritual and physical promises and applications and one does not leave either half out.

Read Romans 11. It is explained very well in that chapter. It is wrong and double wrong to pick and choose verses to support a principal because of one's bias or 'feelings'

There is nothing new in this op...it's just a rehash of false teaching.

 

[ember]

Ember What I was objecting to was the idea that God chose only the jews to be his children of promise and that the children of promise had anything to do with the flesh. The children of promise no matter of race of blood line of color has been and always will be about their hearts, what makes them his has nothing to do with being Jew or Gentile strong or weak.

I never said that or intimated that.

 

[ember]

Yeah, but we are not to allow Satan's children to try and lay a guilt trip upon us because of the unbelieving murderers who had Him crucified!

Don't confuse what I'm saying. By the time of our Lord Jesus' 1st coming, the crept in unawares from OT history, like the Canaanite bondservant Nethinims, had crept into the offices of priest, scribes, and within the Pharisees. They were the main ones that orchestrated our Lord Jesus' crucifixion, and deceived some of the Jews into agreeing.

what guilt trip?

no one is having a guilt trip here that I can see...we are objecting to a false teaching, that's all

no one orchestrated anything that had not already been provided for...as far back as the Garden

Further, Jesus actually GAVE up His life...notice that He said 'It's finished' and bowed His head and died...the soldiers did not have to break His legs...also God's word fulfilled...not one of His bones was broken

Let's not try and make this some kind of human even, because it was not

 

[KJV1611]

not so...God choose Abraham and said that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. There is only one race that is referred to as God's chosen people..ONE physical race...through which ALL the nations of the earth would be blessed

In Genesis 12, God promised Abraham that he would be the father of a great nation (the Jews), the Jews would possess a land, that nation would be blessed above all other nations, and all other nations would be blessed from Israel. So, from the beginning God revealed that Israel would be His chosen people on the earth, but that His blessing would not be limited to them exclusively. Galatians 3:14 identifies the nature of the blessing to come to all the other nations: “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” All the nations of the world were blessed by Israel, through whom the Savior of the world came.

The above scripture plainly shows that the blessings we enjoy through our savation, come through Abraham whose faith was accounted to him as righteousness

You know, the entire Bible must be considered when one ventures out to teach what they consider a major doctrine...such as who is and who is not considered a child of God

This thread is not about God choosing the Jews to be the bloodline Jesus comes thru. It's not about God choosing the Jews to give the oracles of God to the world. These things have nothing to do with the children of the Promise. These things have nothing to do with God's elect. You're lumping all those things together with the promise God made to Abraham and his seed Christ and those things have nothing to do with that.

The Jews were not, are not now and never will be the children of God, nor the children of the promise and they are not God's elect. Again you're lumping all those things into one as though they are one.... they are not one and scripture clearly shows that they're not.

 

[KJV1611]

Our sin was paid for by Jesus sacrifice. Noone killed Him, He laid down His life willingly for us.

Acts 4:10 KJV
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

 

[KJV1611]

Replacement Theology has been done to death here. Its a false teaching. The Catholic church,among others,have repented of teaching it. The church has not replaced Israel. Romans 11 proves this,but of course proponents of this false teaching will twist Scripture every which way possible to be right. They want Israel to have all the curses and the church by way of Christians to have all the blessing. Replacement Theology teaching is old as dirt and as I said,been repented of by many churches years and years ago.Then somebody digs it up again,renames it and dresses it up as a new idea. Its not,its false,end of story.

Where do you get that Israel was ever the children of the promise? Paul is crystal clear in saying that the fleshly descendants of Abraham are not the children of the promise... was Paul lying?

Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[KJV1611]

LOL!..uh huh...so whose words do you suppose I am quoting?

please don't try to state you have some kind of superior ability to state what God says better than anyone

that, is just so predictive of someone wanting to express their own belief in their own ability to have the truth better than anyone else

I quoted straight from the BIBLE...IN CONTEXT...and you don't acknowledge it...you just continue with a basket of cherries

You have no context whatsoever... you expressing your own beliefs and denying the plain easy to understand words of the bible. You deny these verses.

Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[KJV1611]

The Church is from all people, all nations, comprised of jew and gentile that accept Jesus/Messiah as Savior.

The Jews still remain in prophecy for God is not a liar and will perform His word and keep His promises to Israel

We don't need to define "Jew" I think God knows who He's talking about without our input.

Matthew 21:43 KJV
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Matthew 21:19 KJV
And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

 

[KJV1611]

Exactly, here we go again!! Now watch the twisting and jumping through hoops thats about to happen. smh

Show the twisting and show me the hoops.